Early 2023 predictions - Flying Scotsman range?

[Coldgunner]

Yeah, I know its April but a thought occurred today. With it being the centenary of Flying Scotsman, do you think we'll get a focus on the loco as part of the new range? With the newer tooling for the A1/A3's I suspect this could be preparation for a range of pacifics.

 

My personal hope is to see a 2 tender Pegler and a re-release of the 2 tender USA tour. Hornby have also been kind of edging towards retro packaging, so maybe a return of the tri-ang box with a new tooled loco? Empire exhibition editions perhaps, or just some boring re-releases?

[Robin Brasher]

I would also like to see a release of the Flying Scotsman in BR green with smoke deflectors and the late crest as used on current rail tours.

[Robin Brasher]

I was surprised that it took the 00 gauge model railway manufacturers so long to produce such a popular subject as the "Flying Scotsman" when Trix and Triang-Hornby first produced them in 1968. I wonder if anyone has compared the Trix version with the new Hornby version. When the Trix version came out I thought it was the best ready to run steam engine that had ever been made.

[scouse889]

1 hour ago, Robin Brasher said:

I would also like to see a release of the Flying Scotsman in BR green with smoke deflectors and the late crest as used on current rail tours.

 

For information - Hornby did one after it was overhauled and rededicated by the NRM.

R3443.

Examples are available quite often on eBay for reasonable prices.

 

BTW - the Mods will probably lock this thread soon as wishlisting is only allowed in December, IIRC....?

Edited April 28, 2022 by scouse889

[G-BOAF]

A scotsman or two is an absoute cert, possibly in 1923/1924 (wembley), 1928 or 2023 condition i would say (the later in conjunction with the NRM). I think a proper twin tender (retooled to match quality of loco) is sadly unlikely.

 

I also speculate Mallard in Garter Blue in the Dublo cast body range.

Edited April 28, 2022 by G-BOAF

[adb968008]

Scotsman is a definite next year, much of it regurgitated ideas from previous years.

Maybe they do a special “2023” edition, not sure what this entails but if a purple Bulleid is an option in 2022, maybe some form of plaque, commeration, headboard or unique 100 year embellishment on the real thing replicated in model form.

 

has any plans for Scotsman in 2023 been published ? … its mainline jollies may need staggering levels of security if the media gets carried away.

[G-BOAF]

Aside from Truro, will Scotsman be the first mainline registered 100 year old machine?

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Aside from Truro, will Scotsman be the first mainline registered 100 year old machine?

 

Hardwicke? Built 1873 (although almost completely renewed later but so is Flying Scotsman) and ran on the main line in the 1970s. I saw it at York in probably 1976. 

[G-BOAF]

27 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Hardwicke? Built 1873 (although almost completely renewed later but so is Flying Scotsman) and ran on the main line in the 1970s. I saw it at York in probably 1976. 

 

Good call. Yes indeed.

I presume Stirling Single didnt go mainline during the 1970s or 80s did it (and Rainhill/Shildon cavalcades dont count)?

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Aside from Truro, will Scotsman be the first mainline registered 100 year old machine?

 

 

One of the Beattie Well Tanks was mainline registered and that was built in 1874. So would have been over 125 years old when restored to working order in the early 2000s.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

13 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

 

Good call. Yes indeed.

I presume Stirling Single didnt go mainline during the 1970s or 80s did it (and Rainhill/Shildon cavalcades dont count)?

 

Don't see why not. I don't know about Shildon, but Rainhill is on the mainline and many of the locomotives travelled under their own steam.

 

Whilst not registered, Lion would have been 142 years old at the time and did travel from Southport via Wigan. This is on the mainline.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/goremirebob/14403038411

 

An incomplete list of steam locos with a TOPS code here.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_98

 

 

Jason

[Hroth]

I sincerely hope not...

[Hilux5972]

A 1968 Pegler twin tender edition would be very nice to see released. Much more prototypical for uk layouts than the USA edition. 

[adb968008]

Errr… Lion in 1980… was the oldest working steam locomotive at the time, I doubt anything will beat 142 years old for a while yet… (1880 would be the current qualifying year).

 

Isnt the GNR Saloon the oldest mainline certified coach at this point ?

The Queen of Scots set, definitely, has some old wood in that rake.

 

 

 

 

At 110 the GWR steam railmotor probably qualifies as oldest steam loco in recent memory on the mainline.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by adb968008

[Pre Grouping fan]

I would argue items of the Bluebell's Stock are the oldest coaches to go mainline. 

 

Brighton 1st 1903, SECR 100 seater 1922

and 3 Four wheelers (3360, 1889. 114, 1889. and 661, 1880. OK the 3 latter on parcels van chassis but still wooden bodied. They all went up to Kings Cross for filming a few years ago. 

 

The Met coaches have also been on the mainline up to London for steam on the underground. 

[t-b-g]

14 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Errr… Lion in 1980… was the oldest working steam locomotive at the time, I doubt anything will beat 142 years old for a while yet… (1880 would be the current qualifying year).

 

Isnt the GNR Saloon the oldest mainline certified coach at this point ?

The Queen of Scots set, definitely, has some old wood in that rake.

 

At 110 the GWR steam railmotor probably qualifies as oldest steam loco in recent memory on the mainline.

 

 

It all depends if you count the bits that make it go as the locomotive, or the carriage attached to it.

 

The boiler, frames and running gear are amongst the newest to be passed for main lone use. The carriage body is the old bit.

[adb968008]

13 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

It all depends if you count the bits that make it go as the locomotive, or the carriage attached to it.

 

The boiler, frames and running gear are amongst the newest to be passed for main lone use. The carriage body is the old bit.

Nah, Flying Scotsman has more parts that say made in Lancashire, than made in Yorkshire.

[69843]

Thread drift I know.

But I always laugh at people arguing about if 4472 is or isn't authentic because parts have been replaced (and have been pretty much as it has run, both like any steam locomotive and any preserved locomotive). Meanwhile, locomotives that have undergone similar significant work often barely raise a comment.

Back on thread, I'd be interested in a 2021/2 tooling Scotsman in 2016-on condition. A few times I've been interested in an R3443, but the examples I've seen crop up have all had some degree of front frame lifting. If the "new" tooling is halfway decent, I'd jump on it.

[brushman47544]

14 minutes ago, 69843 said:

If the "new" tooling is halfway decent, I'd jump on it.

 

Metaphorically I trust :-)

[eldomtom2]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Nah, Flying Scotsman has more parts that say made in Lancashire, than made in Yorkshire.

True enough, but 4472 still has significant original 1923 parts.

[Coldgunner]

6 hours ago, 69843 said:

Back on thread, I'd be interested in a 2021/2 tooling Scotsman in 2016-on condition. A few times I've been interested in an R3443, but the examples I've seen crop up have all had some degree of front frame lifting. If the "new" tooling is halfway decent, I'd jump on it.

I've got a few A3's from the previous tooling, all with decent running boards. Wondering if the moulds are knackered or there was an issue with the plastic mixture later on, forcing the re-tool to happen. All reasonably decent runners.

I have:
60052*
4472 (Hornby Legends)*
NRM Black 103/502
NRM 1963 weathered with NC tender

* These have the DCC socket in the loco.

[Delta_Who]

My 2023 Bingo Card

- Flying Scotsman with steam generator is delayed till next year
- Re-release of the NRM LNER A3 with new tooling
- "Gold plated" version of scotsman
- Another rebranded Railroad A1 set
- 1920s Scotsman A1 with new tooling (unsure if with original tender or with corridor tender)
- Double-tender Scotsman

- Live Steam name-drop
- NRM does a new livery for late 2022/2023 and Hornby jumps on it.
- Scotsman Dublo

Edited April 30, 2022 by Delta_Who

[69843]

16 hours ago, Coldgunner said:

I've got a few A3's from the previous tooling, all with decent running boards. Wondering if the moulds are knackered or there was an issue with the plastic mixture later on, forcing the re-tool to happen. All reasonably decent runners.

It seems to have been an issue from the tooling from the newer, non Sandra Kan factory. R3443 seems to suffer about 50/50 and the level varies, but from memory the 2015 or so release of Book Law seemed to suffer this and a few other issues. So it's a potential for it to be either issue you've mentioned or both.

[Steamport Southport]

21 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

True enough, but 4472 still has significant original 1923 parts.

 

I'm pretty sure it had a new set of frames at one point. Probably when it was rebuilt as an A3.

 

LNER Pacifics did suffer with frame cracking and most of them got a new set in the 1940s and 1950s.

 

I'm afraid most of what is called Flying Scotsman was swapped on a regular basis.

 

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=600112003&loco=1472

 

So tender's not original, boiler not original, new frames, new cab (it's a later type and probably changed when it was altered to LHD). They got new cylinders in the 1920s after being shown up by 4079.

 

Anything in it that is original? Maybe the fireman's seat. 😜

 

But it is Flying Scotsman. Just as Rocket is Rocket, Lion is Lion and the Hetton Colliery Locomotive was built in 1822. 

 

 

Jason

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I'm pretty sure it had a new set of frames at one point. Probably when it was rebuilt as an A3.

 

LNER Pacifics did suffer with frame cracking and most of them got a new set in the 1940s and 1950s.

 

I'm afraid most of what is called Flying Scotsman was swapped on a regular basis.

 

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=600112003&loco=1472

 

So tender's not original, boiler not original, new frames, new cab (it's a later type and probably changed when it was altered to LHD). They got new cylinders in the 1920s after being shown up by 4079.

 

Anything in it that is original? Maybe the fireman's seat. 😜

 

But it is Flying Scotsman. Just as Rocket is Rocket, Lion is Lion and the Hetton Colliery Locomotive was built in 1822. 

 

 

Jason

 

Absolutely!

 

There was a survey done of Flying Scotsman done a while ago to establish just how much might date back to the "as new" construction. I recall that there were a tiny number of parts that could be confirmed as original. I think some brackets that support the cab on the frames were, as well as maybe a couple of other minor items.

 

i think it is pretty unrealistic to expect any locomotive that has been in service for any length of time to be "original". A loco that has been in fairly active preservation for as long as Flying Scotsman has, is likely to be not even in "as withdrawn" condition.

 

I can never understand why people get hung up about such things. If something breaks, it gets fixed. If it is beyond fixing, you replace it. It doesn't mean it is a different loco.