Joy of Freelance - Suitable Locomotives & Rolling Stock

[Hroth]

12 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Well, I note the Amberdale topic, which prompted this one to some extent, has disappeared from view.

 

Come on now, 'fess up, which one of you did it? 

 

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

It's back, following an exchange with Andy last night.

 

Someone - and you know who you are - reported the post for copyright infringement. Unfortunately this individual's zealous passion for upholding intellectual property law caused the whole topic to be hidden.

 

By arrangement with Andy, it has reappeared, with the original post stripped of its pictures albeit retaining the layout plan for context.

 

Much of copyright law, in my humble lawyer's opinion, is b*ll*cks, but it does put site moderators like Andy in a difficult position, even where the pictures are, as in this case, poor reproductions, shaky ones taken on a moving train, so in no way a substitute for those in the book. It cannot be said, then, that the post was doing any actual damage to the copyright owner, indeed, the post was a massive plug for the book and other forum members seem to have added to its sales having seen it.

 

It seems to me that this was not a complaint by the copyright owner, but by some officious soul volunteering to police other people as such people so often feel compelled to do. I will leave that person to reflect upon what they have done and consider whether here they succeeded in adding to the store of human happiness.

 

It takes all sorts, however.

 

Yes. I went looking for the Amberdale thread yesterday and found the gaping void.  I quickly surmised that it had something to do with the selection of images taken from the book, and I'm glad to see that the thread has returned, even though sans the pics, which in my very 'umble (IANAL) opinion did much to pique my interest and prompted me to place an order for the book.

 

I'm sure your review has stirred up more interest than otherwise possible amongst a receptive demographic. The mention in Model Rail would not have achieved this!

 

 

[Johnson044]

I'm sure your review has stirred up more interest than otherwise possible amongst a receptive demographic. The mention in Model Rail would not have achieved this!

 

Hear hear! I wouldn't have known about, or bought the book if Edwardian hadn't drawn it to my attention.

[NewFangledNonsense]

Coming to this exceptionally late (and in fact getting myself a new log in as an old email had lapsed some years back, so I could comment)...

First, I wanted to suggest two possibly-too-obvious 'types' with Barton Wright (of the LYR)'s finger prints all over them (I don't think these have been mentioned in this thread?):

His 0-6-2T design (initially a rebuild from a Jenkins 0-6-0 tender loco)

 

... which ended up being effectively a 'standard' Kitson design and versions thereof with the same curved tanks and bunker emerging on the TVR, LDECR and H&B...

 

I'll paste in a link to the LDECR and HBR types

 

LNER Encyclopedia: The LNER Kitson N6 (GCR Class A) 0-6-2T Locomotives

LNER Encyclopedia: The LNER Kitson N11 (HBR Class F1) 0-6-2T Locomotives

Barton wright also rebuilt some Jenkins 0-6-0s as 0-6-0ST.
And then there's also what happened to his own 0-6-0s when they were rebuilt as 0-6-0STs by Aspinall...
 

 

...which it has been commented, is quite similar to the Sacre MSLR 0-6-0s rebuilt by Robinson as mixed-traffic dual-braked tanks



These are not that obscure, and I don't think it's impossible to see them as 'generic' types that aren't 'owned' by either Kitson or the parent railways... particularly if your railway is anywhere north of Bristol and south of Carnforth.

...It's entire possible, I guess to mix them up and have a tender type with 0-6-0ST and 0-6-2T (and if you want 0-6-2ST) variants, all working alongside each other, and starting out as three (or four) members of the same class; and if you really want you can have a 4'6" or thereabouts coal engine 0-6-0 type, and a 5'3" or thereabouts mixed traffic 0-6-0 type, begetting a number of tank 'children' of various combinations of features. (I believe I'm right in saying that the DX Goods lurks behind all these locos as an indirect influence, but can't evidence that right now).

(This all came about because I saw a picture of an 0-6-2T at Lancaster Castle station, and thought 'what's a GCR loco doing there?' before I realised my error.

[Regularity]

The “ironclad” 0-6-0s which were the foundation for the later conversions or saddle tanks (preserved examples exist of both) were of Kitson design: the Taff Vale had some, too. The wheels, etc., seem to be of a standard size, similar to those supplied to the Mid Wales and Cambrian as 0-6-0s, and with slightly larger drivers, as 0-4-2s. Also to Carlisle on the BCR.

They were used alongside the Sharp, Stewart locos of similar size, but didn’t last as long - wonder what it was about the LYR locos that kept them going until very near the end of steam?

[NewFangledNonsense]

26 minutes ago, Regularity said:

The “ironclad” 0-6-0s which were the foundation for the later conversions or saddle tanks (preserved examples exist of both) were of Kitson design: the Taff Vale had some, too. The wheels, etc., seem to be of a standard size, similar to those supplied to the Mid Wales and Cambrian as 0-6-0s, and with slightly larger drivers, as 0-4-2s. Also to Carlisle on the BCR.

They were used alongside the Sharp, Stewart locos of similar size, but didn’t last as long - wonder what it was about the LYR locos that kept them going until very near the end of steam?

I think some of those 0-6-0s / 0-6-0STs (class 25?) were built by Beyers. It's possible details were changed between batches, and as Aspinall extended and standardised some of later Bart Wright designs, was it just that there were spare parts galore available? (I know he scrapped the 0-4-4Ts).

Barton Wright seems to have used a hodgepodge of builders (the newbuild 0-6-2Ts, not the rebuilds, include examples built by Dubs, for eg). I don't know if build date and builder dictated survival, and it's not clear to me who designed what and how much Horwich contracted out design work?

[CKPR]

The Barton-Wright 0-6-0s as built by Beyer-Peacock also have a family resemblance to engines supplied by B-P to the M&CR - I'm still playing around with L&Y and M&CR plans to see if a Geo. Norton 'ironclad' can be (re)built as an M&CR engine. 

[whart57]

What a joyous discovery this morning, to find this thread.

 

Given how many Sharp Stewarts and Beyer Peacocks found their way across the North Sea to run on the anglophile State Railway and Rhine Railways in the Netherlands, this book is a really good source of drawings. They are to 1:100 scale - great for 3mm scale modellers like me - but scans and photocopies can easily be rescaled.

 

 

This 3mm scale single is based on a NRS class provided by Sharps in the 1850s, supposedly for my freelance Surrey Railways.

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by whart57

[whart57]

My fictitious Surrey Railway history has the company starting out with a mixed bag of engines acquired second-hand, with the first new purchases coming a few years later. The Sharp Stewart single is assumed to be one of a class of four acquired for the passenger traffic and I have made a small rake of four wheel carriages from the 1850s (two thirds, a second, a first with curved quarter-lights and a brake van) to go with it. My history has the line getting some goods locos from SS at the same time. As goods traffic would not have been that heavy early on - this is set after all in Surrey and not County Durham - it was suggested on another thread that an 0-4-2 would be more likely than an 0-6-0. JimC of this parish posted up a drawing of Sharp Stewart's standard mixed traffic engine, but that image disappeared in the Great Crash. However I did take a copy .......

 

 

The Sparkshot Cambrian SPC 3D print would appear to be a suitable starting point, so that is now in the plan. Expect it to show on here in 2039 or so .......

Edited July 3, 2022 by whart57

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, whart57 said:

My fictitious Surrey Railway history has the company starting out with a mixed bag of engines acquired second-hand, with the first new purchases coming a few years later. The Sharp Stewart single is assumed to be one of a class of four acquired for the passenger traffic and I have made a small rake of four wheel carriages from the 1850s (two thirds, a second, a first with curved quarter-lights and a brake van) to go with it. My history has the line getting some goods locos from SS at the same time. As goods traffic would not have been that heavy early on - this is set after all in Surrey and not County Durham - it was suggested on another thread that an 0-4-2 would be more likely than an 0-6-0. JimC of this parish posted up a drawing of Sharp Stewart's standard mixed traffic engine, but that image disappeared in the Great Crash. However I did take a copy .......

 

 

The Sparkshot Cambrian SPC 3D print would appear to be a suitable starting point, so that is now in the plan. Expect it to show on here in 2039 or so .......

 

This is the Cambrian Volunteer Class, of which I think they had about six and they lated until the end of the 19th century. Model of the version with a later added cab are here.

 

The wheelbase is, coupled: 7' 3", and from coupled to trailing: 6' 9".  Height to centre of boiler: 6' 3", Diameter of boiler: 3', height to top of chimney, 12' 6".  Distance from behind buffer beam to front coupled wheel, 4' 10" and distance from trailing wheel to end of frame, (Buffere beam behind that), 2' 3".  Height from rail to top of frame 4' 2 3/4".  This is from a diagram in 'Cambrian Railways, a New History.'.  There are no wheel sizes but I could find them if you wanted them.

 

This is also on my 'to do' list, but will be after my coaches, which will be after the scenics, which will be finished when they are completed, so no time soon.  

[whart57]

1 hour ago, ChrisN said:

 

This is the Cambrian Volunteer Class, of which I think they had about six and they lated until the end of the 19th century. Model of the version with a later added cab are here.

 

The wheelbase is, coupled: 7' 3", and from coupled to trailing: 6' 9".  Height to centre of boiler: 6' 3", Diameter of boiler: 3', height to top of chimney, 12' 6".  Distance from behind buffer beam to front coupled wheel, 4' 10" and distance from trailing wheel to end of frame, (Buffere beam behind that), 2' 3".  Height from rail to top of frame 4' 2 3/4".  This is from a diagram in 'Cambrian Railways, a New History.'.  There are no wheel sizes but I could find them if you wanted them.

 

This is also on my 'to do' list, but will be after my coaches, which will be after the scenics, which will be finished when they are completed, so no time soon.  

 

I am tempted to give this 5'2" drivers rather than the bigger drivers the drawing suggests, that being more suitable for a mainly goods but occasionally passenger sort of mixed traffic engine. Though to be honest the real reason is that I already have those drivers in my  wheels for long forgotten projects pile.

[Northroader]

My compliments to Joy, and harking back to “Crewe Types” on page one,  some folks were also doing them in 0-4-2 and 0-6-0 versions (though side rod taken down on the latter)

Edited July 20, 2022 by Northroader

[Caley Jim]

In the 1860's - early 1880's the CR made extensive use of 0-4-2's with horizontal outside cylinders for mineral traffic as they were ideal for working over tight colliery lines. My avatar is a head on view of my model of No 391.

 

Jim 

[Schooner]

Hullo Parishioners all, happy Sunday. How are we?

 

Hatton clearance + a 7mm micro = impulse Terrier aquisition, apparently. 

 

But...I have no need for a Terrier. I do have a desire for a freelancey-generic 0-6-0T of Dickensian aesthetic. 

 

Please could I have some suggestions for suitable prototypes which are close to the Terrier wheelsize and -base, for 3D-print bodykit hunting (or commissioning); or generic features I could place on top of the Terrier chassis as a first foray into 'serious' scratchbuilding.

 

Thanks!

[Hando]

5 hours ago, Schooner said:

Hullo Parishioners all, happy Sunday. How are we?

 

Hatton clearance + a 7mm micro = impulse Terrier aquisition, apparently. 

 

But...I have no need for a Terrier. I do have a desire for a freelancey-generic 0-6-0T of Dickensian aesthetic. 

 

Please could I have some suggestions for suitable prototypes which are close to the Terrier wheelsize and -base, for 3D-print bodykit hunting (or commissioning); or generic features I could place on top of the Terrier chassis as a first foray into 'serious' scratchbuilding.

 

Thanks!

I am also guilty of this

During the sale, I purchased a 7mm model of Wapping in Improved Engine Green, despite the fact that I was planning a semi-prototypical microlayout based in East Cornwall!

Perhaps I should change my plans to something more appropriate to the South Coast (I did have another layout idea in my head and was eyeing up some Stroudley carriages on eBay, so perhaps that is a potential route to solve this).

Soon after copping the Terrier, I caved on purchasing a model I wanted for years, Minerva's Manning Wardle K Class in blue, which has led me to become incredibly indecisive as to what I want to do.

I do eventually want to model a branch line terminus based on a proposed branch line in the Peak District, though I think on my current student salary, such endeavours may have to wait!

 

An idea for you Terrier could be to do a rough repaint like the Colonel did with those he bought for the Edge Hill Light Railway, or even keep it in the same livery as an engine on hire. Terriers could be found to be spread all over the place if you know where to look, going as far north as the Highlands! https://www.fofnl.org.uk/newsletters/20May/20may24.php