SBB/BLS catenary masts & spans in N gauge

[Frutigen]

I don't plan to do full catenary wiring at Obermatt but I do want to represent the masts and spans that are such a distinctive part of the Swiss railway scene. So far I've used Dapol UK style masts on the single track sections at the back of the layout, but something more authentically Swiss would really improve the look of the place. The station and yard are going to need spans covering multiple tracks, and the shape of the yard means I'm going to need a variety of span lengths (see photo below). I'm a bit stymied by the Sommerfeldt range which only quotes the length of its spans in terms of how many tracks they cover. As I'm using non-standard track spacings this doesn't really help.

 

Any thoughts and advice on choice of masts and spans from whatever manufacturer would be much appreciated. I'm happy to buy the Sommerfeldt manual if someone can tell me that it specifies the actual span lengths. 

 

EDIT: Fast forward two months and I've chosen a system. Read the thread in order if you want to see the knowledgable responses I got from members of this forum, or skip to here if you just want to see how I get on.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Frutigen

[Erichill16]

I have purchased for future use some items by N-Train.

They have quite a good selection of components. BLS, SBB and Gottard Types.

website www.ntrain.eu.

 

[MikeB]

The Sommerfeldt Manual has  a trackplan for Swiss N.  It shows item 396 for double track,  For multiple tracks it shows a cross beam (395?) with a basic span width of 167 mm, which is shortened in most cases to fit the tracks; spans of 132, 147, 122, 142 and 92 mm are shown.  The tracks can be more or less anywhere under the beam as each vertical element of the cross span has a possible point for attaching  the overhead wire.  The diagrams also show  a case where there are six tracks,  The beam is shortened to 142 mm and is over tracks 2 to 5, tracks 1 and 6 being 18 mm from the posts which have outriggers to hold the overhead for these outermost tracks 

[JimFin]

I 3d print my own RhB style with spans up to 220mm. These are drafts, unpainted and support pips still left on. Click on the photo for the rest of the album.

  

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by JimFin

[Frutigen]

Thank you Erichill16, MikeB and JimFin for 3 very helpful responses. There's loads of useful info there to help me move forward with this stage of the project.

[Gordonwis]

I was about to respond with links to my Chamossaire layout thread when \I realised all the old photos have gone in the RMWeb crash.

 

I've just uploaded a few of the shots I took at the SRS AGM last week.

 

Originally, Chamossaire was equipped with Sommerfeldt SBB spans, but I decided (on appearance alone) to buy lots of N-Train spans, which you can see in the photos on my thread (one copied here below)

 

Sadly, I am considering reverting to the apparently 'overscale' Sommerfeldt because the N Train spans are far too delicate for the moving/storage requirements for my layout. The spans are very easily distorted because the material used is very 'soft'.  If Obermatt is in a fixed location and the overhead will not be touched once installed, I recommend it. If not I no longer recommend N train.

 

As you can see in my pictures, just the process of taking Chamossaire from London to Crewe for exhibition resulted some damage to the N train spans, which do not take kindly to any sort of handling! 

 

[Frutigen]

Thank you, Gordon, for sharing your experience. It’s something I need to take into account. 
 

Obermatt isn’t intended to move out of the house but it has to be shifted around (rarely) within its room if I need to do any detailed work on the back of the layout. Perhaps the greater threats to masts and spans would be my own clumsiness when reaching over to nudge a train or when cleaning the track. There are grandchildren, too, but they tend to be more careful than me. 

[Gottardo]

I do like the N-Train catenary but as Gordon says it is very easily damaged. Even on my permanent layout I have had a few accidents over the years and in the case of the cross-spans it is virtually impossible to straighten them again. The single masts can usually be repaired but even then it's fiddly.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Gottardo

[Gordonwis]

15 hours ago, Frutigen said:

Perhaps the greater threats to masts and spans would be my own clumsiness when reaching over to nudge a train or when cleaning the track. There are grandchildren, too, but they tend to be more careful than me. 

 

That's the problem, even without excessive 'clumsiness' - just  reaching over to clean the track, correct a derailment etc can be a risk as you can do something as inadvertent as catch a shirt sleeve on one of the posts and it can bend out of shape. Gottardo makes a good point I failed to add, in that once twisted out of shape it is impossible to get them back to their original shape. 

[Frutigen]

21 hours ago, Gottardo said:

Even on my permanent layout

Ah, so that’s your layout I keep watching on YouTube! Respect, sir. 

[JimFin]

8 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

once twisted out of shape it is impossible to get them back to their original shape

With the correct blend of resin, a hidden benefit in a 3d print. Folk may not realise "resin" is akin to "metal" it comes in many formulae for different purposes and can be blended to create "alloys" with properties for the job in hand. Click on the video for a demonstration.

 

 

 

[Gottardo]

1 hour ago, Frutigen said:

Ah, so that’s your layout I keep watching on YouTube! Respect, sir. 

 

Thanks Keith.

 

John.

[Gordonwis]

Thanks

 

You have touched upon the next thing I was going to say on this subject.

 

I had been toying with ignoring Sommerfeldt and using the rather nice overhead made in 3D by RhB Modellbahn a Swiss 'semi artisan' .

 

It is designed for RhB so is perhaps not quite SBB in character but it is malleable, similar to Jim's video

 

https://www.rhbmodellbahn.com/rhb-fahrleitung-n

[Frutigen]

9 hours ago, JimFin said:

Click on the video for a demonstration.

I enjoyed that

[MichaelE]

I'd be buying that up if it was offered for HOm.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

On 03/05/2022 at 10:27, Gottardo said:

I do like the N-Train catenary but as Gordon says it is very easily damaged. Even on my permanent layout I have had a few accidents over the years and in the case of the cross-spans it is virtually impossible to straighten them again. The single masts can usually be repaired but even then it's fiddly.

 

 

On 04/05/2022 at 08:15, Frutigen said:

Ah, so that’s your layout I keep watching on YouTube! Respect, sir. 

I hope this it’s OK to ask, but I was wondering if a link could be posted to the YouTube channel for this layout - I’d love to see more of it, but am not sure I’ve come across it yet in my searches.  Hope it’s OK to ask - it just looks rather impressive.  Thanks, Keith.

[Frutigen]

4 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

I hope this it’s OK to ask, but I was wondering if a link could be posted to the YouTube channel for this layout - I’d love to see more of it, but am not sure I’ve come across it yet in my searches.  Hope it’s OK to ask - it just looks rather impressive.  Thanks, Keith.

Search on YouTube for Sustenbahn

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Frutigen

[Keith Addenbrooke]

22 hours ago, Frutigen said:

Search on YouTube for Sustenbahn

 

Thank you - an excellent layout @Gottardo and some very good videos on YouTube (most enjoyable).  It was particularly nice to watch trains pass through the station at Primelbach as it uses the same kit my Dad made for me when I had my first layout in N-Scale over forty years ago.  Apologies for the thread drift: look forward to seeing how the catenary shapes up on Obermatt, Keith.  

[Frutigen]

Time for an update. 

 

If you read the earlier part of this thread you'll find a number of answers from knowledgable forum members to my question about what catenary is available in N for a Swiss standard gauge layout, along with a discussion of the pros and cons of some of the systems on the market.

 

After my last post back in early May I took up @JimFin's kind offer to try out some of his 3D printed catenary designed for modular N gauge RhB layouts. Jim was kind enough to adapt some of his designs to fit my own layout's parameters and I now have a batch of single post masts and the parts to make multi-track spans in various configurations. I'll do some notes here as I work up my catenary system but for now I thought I'd show an early trial section of the single masts which still need some finishing work before they're ready for final installation.

 

Here's a before view, showing the Dapol UK style masts that I was using as a stop gap.

 

 

On the second photo I've replaced the masts on the upper level with two versions of Jim's Swiss outline masts. Please bear in mind that they still need some finishing, including adjustment of the arms before spraying in a steel colour with highlights for the brown insulators and cement bases. Plus I'll need to bed them in straight when the time comes.

 

 

My first impression is that these convey nicely the character and proportions of Swiss single-line catenary. You do have to allow for quite a bit of finishing work on the pieces to clean them up and paint them, and the multi-track gantries need to be assembled from separate posts, spans and hangers. I find I enjoy the finishing work and I'm not on a deadline so, for me, it's a pleasant phase in the development of the layout. A big thank you to Jim for getting me this far.

 

I'll post more detailed reports as things progress.

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Frutigen

[Gordonwis]

The only thing I would say is that on the RhB most posts have a tall vertical with the high voltage wires carried above the track catenary, Pictures here at Madulain and Zernez. Also, in many places the newer catenary start to look not too far off from the Dapol shape!

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Gordonwis

[Gordonwis]

And here is Berguen and the ZB style for comparison

[Frutigen]

8 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

The only thing I would say is that on the RhB most posts have a tall vertical with the high voltage wires carried above the track catenary,

That’s quite right. The nearer masts in my second photo are not @JimFin’s RhB pattern but a separate “SBB Modern” design based on a reference photo and dimensions that I supplied. I particularly chose a prototype that had a shorter post so as to reduce the chance of accidentally knocking into them when reaching over them at the front of the layout. This is a concern for me as there is no fiddleyard behind the scenes on Obermatt so all the handling and uncoupling of trains has to be done on the layout itself from the front and even a baggy pullover can get tangled up with foreground scenery. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Frutigen

[Frutigen]

10 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

Also, in many places the newer catenary start to look not too far off from the Dapol shape!

So true, which is why I initially put the Dapol masts on the layout. They are well made, finely detailed and don’t cost a lot. But I came to the conclusion that, to my eye, they are really a bit under proportioned for the Swiss scene and lack the more generous spacing between the upper and lower arms that is very Swiss in character.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Frutigen

[Gordonwis]

11 hours ago, Frutigen said:

So true, which is why I initially put the Dapol masts on the layout. They are well made, finely detailed and don’t cost a lot. But I came to the conclusion that, to my eye, they are really a bit under proportioned for the Swiss scene and lack the more generous spacing between the upper and lower arms that is very Swiss in character.

 

I actually think the opposite, I think the Dapol masts are quite close to some of the most recent SBB masts.

 

 

[Gordonwis]

As it happens, I visited two sections of main line in Switzerland last month that are still single track

 

Here is a single track SBB line - just south of Buchs SG on 16 June 2022

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Gordonwis