Bachmann OO Summer 2022 Announcements inc. OO9

[TomScrut]

6 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

at last, adding a bit more

 

I think that's what bugs me the most. They seem to react rather than innovate, and on top of that the silly errors they make despite the increased prices. 

 

Hornby are pretty much at Bachmann pricing making these two probably the most expensive manufacturers in OO now but I'd say as a generalisation Bachmann stuff is better, but if only Hornby make it and we have to have it then that's who it has to be bought from!

 

Ultimately regardless of how much the price rises are to do with the shipping costs, if they can get away with lifting the price then who can blame them? The main bugbear for me is when pre orders get the price hiked (I think if you don't know what you can sell it for, don't put the price on there or accept orders), at least the current Bachmann system avoids this.

 

I don't spend less for the increased prices, I just can't buy as much.

[MarkSG]

7 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

So the well known, and substantial, increases in shipping costs are not a factor, but some sort of experiment by an evil corporation is? Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. 

 

There's nothing evil about it, and nothing I've said in any way implies that it is. There are all sorts of factors which go into setting the price of an object, of which overheads (such as shipping) are an important part, but not the only part. An equally important element is the price that customers are willing to pay.

 

A responsible, well-run business will price its products at a level which generates the maximum return. That can seem counterintuitive to onlookers, sometimes, who often think that keeping prices as low as possible (after covering manufacturing costs and overheads)  is the best route as that maximises sales. But sometimes it's more financially beneficial to sell a smaller quantity at a higher price. As the saying goes, turnover is vanity, profit is sanity, and cash is reality. And particularly at the moment, when inflation is high, the cost of living is rising and discretionary spending is being squeezed, there are real challenges ahead for the model railway manufacturers. If they're not building a comfortable buffer zone into their pricing then they've very vulnerable to a downturn in sales. At a time like this, they need to be prepared to sell fewer units, but offset that with a better margin on the ones they do sell. I'd be surprised - and, frankly, worried - if they weren't looking to squeeze as much value out of the assets as possible. That's not evil, and it's not a conspiracy, it's just bog standard business planning. And I'm not criticising them by observing that this is a factor. 

[adb968008]

7 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

There's nothing evil about it, and nothing I've said in any way implies that it is. There are all sorts of factors which go into setting the price of an object, of which overheads (such as shipping) are an important part, but not the only part. An equally important element is the price that customers are willing to pay.

 

A responsible, well-run business will price its products at a level which generates the maximum return. That can seem counterintuitive to onlookers, sometimes, who often think that keeping prices as low as possible (after covering manufacturing costs and overheads)  is the best route as that maximises sales. But sometimes it's more financially beneficial to sell a smaller quantity at a higher price. As the saying goes, turnover is vanity, profit is sanity, and cash is reality. And particularly at the moment, when inflation is high, the cost of living is rising and discretionary spending is being squeezed, there are real challenges ahead for the model railway manufacturers. If they're not building a comfortable buffer zone into their pricing then they've very vulnerable to a downturn in sales. At a time like this, they need to be prepared to sell fewer units, but offset that with a better margin on the ones they do sell. I'd be surprised - and, frankly, worried - if they weren't looking to squeeze as much value out of the assets as possible. That's not evil, and it's not a conspiracy, it's just bog standard business planning. And I'm not criticising them by observing that this is a factor. 

I see it more simply….

 

You buy it, or you dont.

[MarkSG]

34 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

I don't spend less for the increased prices, I just can't buy as much.

 

That's why raising prices can increase profit despite reducing sales.

 

Take a fictional worked example here. Suppose you spend, on average, £1,000 a year on model railways (don't laugh, some people buy a loco a month and it works out in total to be a lot more than that!). If you spend that on ten items costing £100 each with a profit margin of 10%, then the total profit is

 

10 x (100 x 0.1) =  £100

 

If the price is doubled, but the margin is doubled as well, and your spending remains the same, you will now buy five items costing £200 each. In which case, the total profit is

 

5 x (200 x .02) = £200

 

So the profit has doubled even though the sales have halved and the revenue remains the same. Which is why it can be a good idea to increase prices by more than the increase in costs.

 

(Obviously, this ignores retail margins and a whole host of other real life considerations. But the underlying principle is the same).

[TomScrut]

2 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

That's why raising prices can increase profit despite reducing sales.

 

I know!

 

But, there are also plenty of people who say they are refusing to pay today's prices. How many of them were paying the prices of 2-3 years ago, and how many are actually buying and just making a noise I don't know.

 

The other thing that having high RRPs allows is to maximise profit when something first comes out for those willing to pay that price, and then discount it if it's not moving. If they can sell them all at max profit then great, if they have to sell at a reduced price and still make a bit then it's better than selling at the reduced price to begin with.

[adb968008]

Its still all academic.

 

value is only created if the consumer buys the product.

if youve got to take it home at the end of the day, youve got warehousing, the staff costs the same if you sell 1 or 100 etc.

 

This is why we have rising prices, yes the margin is better, but your fixed costs are divided between less product to sell.

many grass roots comissioners appeared in the last 5 years, if the market dries up, they can quickly dissapear again. As many are pay in advance or pay as you go, theres little at risk for them (beyond getting another job). This inflationary curve is probably a safer bet for the big boys to ride out, and they may soak up some cheap abandoned tooling down the road too.

 

You can wait for the end of day sales, but usually when they come its because its already raining on the consumer in the first place. However as we have seen, they are reacting to the glut of new models, by making less volume, so chances of a sale shrink too. If the competition dries out, your market share grows back, and at the new higher inflationary level.

 

So its nebulous really, in our little world you buy it, or you dont, no point whinging, sooner you accept it or reject it the better you can get back to the hobby, or try something else, but the days of old pricing are gone.

Maybe I invested in the right mystic 8 ball, but I filled my boots last year, when overseas vacations werent possible and the bars were shut leaving me with extra to spend, this year i’m a tight wad and made my peace with prices as they are, as i’m buying 1 in 5 the volume I bought last year, and chances are I may offload some at the newer prices were seeing, to offset this years spend too.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

So if I've got it right a company which makes a profit will survive provided the other things such as cash flow and keeping inventory low also go the right way.  And to do that it simply needs to keep the punters sorry, its customers buying at a sufficient pace to keep it profitable.  So moaning about prices is actually irrelevant because either you buy things or you don't - a personal decision -  but if the company have got it right price wise it will survive even if you have reduced your purchases.

 

Interestingly Bachmann returned to profit notwithstanding continuing to increase their prices (although their 2021 results are not due until the end of next month). So they are still with us - which as far as I'm concerned is what counts.  Maybe the time to really moan will be if the company folds?

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

That's why raising prices can increase profit despite reducing sales.

 

Take a fictional worked example here. Suppose you spend, on average, £1,000 a year on model railways (don't laugh, some people buy a loco a month and it works out in total to be a lot more than that!). If you spend that on ten items costing £100 each with a profit margin of 10%, then the total profit is

 

10 x (100 x 0.1) =  £100

 

If the price is doubled, but the margin is doubled as well, and your spending remains the same, you will now buy five items costing £200 each. In which case, the total profit is

 

5 x (200 x .02) = £200

 

So the profit has doubled even though the sales have halved and the revenue remains the same. Which is why it can be a good idea to increase prices by more than the increase in costs.

 

(Obviously, this ignores retail margins and a whole host of other real life considerations. But the underlying principle is the same).

 

That little? I think many people need to check up on what they are actually spending per year as they might be surprised/shocked....  🤑

 

That's about £20 a week. Whilst I appreciate that many have other commitments or don't have much to spend I would say that is quite low compared to many other hobbies. Been the match lately for example? Or the pub? Cinema? Concert? How much is your TV subscription package?

 

Difference with many of those other hobbies is I still have an item afterwards rather than an often vague memory of what happened.

 

 

 

Jason

[No Decorum]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

That little? I think many people need to check up on what they are actually spending per year as they might be surprised/shocked....  🤑

 

That's about £20 a week. Whilst I appreciate that many have other commitments or don't have much to spend I would say that is quite low compared to many other hobbies. Been the match lately for example? Or the pub? Cinema? Concert? How much is your TV subscription package?

 

Difference with many of those other hobbies is I still have an item afterwards rather than an often vague memory of what happened.

 

 

 

Jason

I’m feeling the pinch and have had to become very selective. £20 a week? That’s a little over £80 in a month. What can you get for that these days? On that sort of budget, if you want big steamers or sound-fitted diesels, you’d buy perhaps four locomotives a year. Then there are wagons and coaches and all sorts of bits and pieces as well. I’m certainly not in adb968008’s league but I spend a very great deal more than £1,000 a year.

[Phil Parker]

33 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

On that sort of budget, if you want big steamers or sound-fitted diesels, you’d buy perhaps four locomotives a year.

 

Once upon a time, the suggestion there would even BE four new locos a year to buy would have seen jaws drop.

[TravisM]

I'm generally happy with what's been announced, the Class 90's look nice but out of my modelling area.  I was hoping that a West Coast 47/8 would be announced but not this time, so I've ordered the blue Class 08, 08031 and the EFE 38 Tube stock (I had to have a set as I used to drive them on the Bakerloo).

Edited May 7, 2022 by jools1959
Spelling

[rob D2]

This hobby is cheap as chips !

That is until someone does a modern quality 50…..only then will I feel the need to buy several new locos !

[Free At Last]

My modelling spend last year was just £17.00. on a decoder for the Bachmann 1P, being the last loco I purchased in 2020. There has been nothing available since at a price I will pay.

Having money burning a hole in my pocket I have recently decided to spend it installing sound in my locos.
Thank you Bachmann and Hornby for influencing my decision.

A Kernow Steam Railmotor & Accuascale Manor are the only things I have left on pre-order.

[The Johnster]

Also feeling the pinch, and trying my best to keep to a budget of £25 maximum spend on the railway for each fortnightly pension day.  This covers 'comestibles'; paint, glue, tools, and a constant restocking of Modelu lamps which sacrifice themselves to the carpet monster with worrying consistency.  I can generally manage within that limit, and have enough left over for a treat, in the form of some small detailing piece.  I am working on reducing the Modelu lamps bill with more careful handling and giving thought to an idea I had some while ago, which sort of fell by the wayside, a 'lamp handler' tweezers. 

 

But anything beyond this, new or 2h locos or stock, has to be viewed as 'capital expenditure' and a one off.  Blew the budget last pension day on an eBay spares'n'repair K's 44xx, £32.50 inc postage, and the rule, not always adhered to completely, is that £7.50 is taken off next pension day's £25, so I can't spend more than £17.50 next time!  On that basis, a new Bachmann pannier would wipe out the budget for up to 6 pension days, by which time there will be a backlog of requirment for comestibles and jobs 'on hold'.  It is likely to impact on my normal living expenses as well; no going up the pub, living on Aldi Basic range tinned food, that sort of thing.

 

So, new locos are pretty much off the menu, and while I would love a 2721 or 1854 pannier to current standards, top item on my wishlist, the appearance of one would be a major problem for me!  I was sort of aware when I restarted in the hobby 6 years ago that prices were going to go up, and have made a deliberate effort to buy as many locos and as much stock as I needed for the layout before the worst of it hit the fan, and am glad now that I did!  I managed to source such brand new locos as I bought at less than RRP, as well. My participation in the game as a part of the 'demand' side of supply and demand is much reduced, and I have less and less business complaining about or commenting on the pricing practices of RTR producers or commissioners.  Bright shiny new thing still make it all better, but not so often deze daze.

 

The shopping list is shorter than it was; would like one or two more minerals, and an extra brake van or two wouldn't come amiss, but I have a bad habit of taking on projects, like the Collett 31xx and now the 44xx.  The 31xx has proved very costly, and if I'd known how it was going to turn out I'd probably not have started the project, but it should generate a useable loco eventually.  The 44xx has already thrown up the neccessity for a replacement motor, and these will be a drain on the budget for some time.

 

I would, were I restarting in the hobby now, be very much restricted by my low fixed income, and would have to settle for a very small layout that needed very little stock.  This might prove to be satisfactory, I like shunting and complex operation, but there's no point in downsizing now; I'm happy with the layout I've got, and enjoy operating it, and it's imaginary daily life.  My 70th birthday was in February (not quite sure how that happened, or who the grizzled verteran in the mirror that is my mortal remains is), and I reckon this is probably my last layout, so my participation in the hobby as a spending customer is mostly over.

 

But, being a miserable old git (my other hobby), I am predictably horrified at price increases, especially Bachmanns' price increases!  I still think they are good model for the money, but this is rapidly becoming the rich man's hobby it was a century ago.  No point in bemoaning the fact. or that others can afford to spend more than I can and still spend proportionally less of their income, that's the way of the world and there's not much I can do about it!  I'me by and large content with my lot in life! 

 

Saturday avo, miserable old git philosophical ramblings, sorry for wasting your time...

[Dagworth]

Price of timber is my biggest issue at the moment, I don’t have need for much in the way of currently available stock (although if Bachmann did another run of FFA and FGA Freightliner wagons it would severely affect my bank balance!) 

 

Andi

[The Johnster]

The satisfaction you get from your layout is a matter of philosophy at least as much as any other factor and probably more than most.  I think we all saw 'dream' layouts as children, if only as track plans or on the cover of train set boxes before the rules changed so that one could not show something that was not inside tbe box.  Mulit-track, multi-level, trains whizzing about all over the place; even where there were multi-level locations in reality, such as Copenhagen Fields, they seldom looked anything like that!  So, as we grew older, became more knowledgeable and enthusiastic about the prototype, we modified our 'dream' layout a bit, but the influence of those box top pictures with very little bare baseboard still lingered, either in attempts to recreate it realistially or in a reaction against it, the 'railway in the landscape' approach. 

 

For this as much as any other reason it is sometimes difficult for us to control or restrict our spending on a hobby which, in it's RTR form, has always promoted 'more and bigger' as aspirational.  How many of us have locos and stock not really suitable for our layouts, and large reserves of unbullt wagon and loco kits that we will never need and which will likely contribute to landfill when we are gone?  We are not, as a group of people, sensible or moderate spenders, and are particularly vulnerable to 'bright shiny new thing make it all better' syndrome, notwithstanding that some of us immedieately weather our bright shiny new things to being anything but bright or shiny...

 

Like many modern pastimes, from the trade's point of view it's mostly about disposable incomes, and in that sense the bad news for those of us who do not have large ones is that the hobby is to an extent proof against price rises, as a majority of it's adherents have sufficient DI to keep their shareholders happy.  The likes of me don't count for a hlllabeanz in this world, but can still manage to participate and gain enjoyment from the hobby so long as we are happy and prepared to think small and umimpressive. 

 

Cwmdimbath was built to a budget, or at least an intended one, and a philosophy, KISS, Keep it Simple, Stupid!  The loco and rollings stock budget didn't survive the beginning of running on it by more than a few weeks, but the rest went fairly close to plan.  Firstly, cost had to be kept down; DCC was ruled out at the planning stage, the baseboards are skipraided Ikea shelving supported by bedroom furniture, the trackplan was simple enough to get away with hand-operating my turnouts, which saved the cost of point motors, switches, and relays, and the use of insulfrog Streamline saved on switchable power supply to track behind the turnouts.  Care in laying and a strict hygiene regime for turnouts has resulted in very reliable running.  The contorllers are a GM power controller and HH slave unit from the 1980s.  All turnouts are easily reached from one of two main operating positions (station or colliery/fiddle yard) and an operating chair on castors trundles up and down the layout between them.  Wiring is pretty basic, and there are only two isolating section switches, which makes fault finding both simple and rarely necessary.

 

Secondly, and also within the KISS philosophy, in order to keep me from getting bogged down in development stage problems, a thing that has scuppered previous projects back in the day by sapping enthusiasm, it was important that the track was laid, wiring completed, and the layout fully operational to maintain developmental momentum.  The simple trackplan, small area, and insulfrog/simple wiring ensured this.  I'd allowed 3 months for this stage, but in fact had the track laid, wired, test run, fixed down, and ballasted in just over 6 weeks from the off.  There've been alterations and developments since, but the layout has been in continual successful operation apart from having to be taken down for a flat refurbishment. 

 

This leads me to another basic principle, and I accept that it is one that many modellers have to compromise on, but it is important to me that my layout is within the living area of the home, where there is proper heating and ventilation and access to it is easy and quick (so that I can complete a shuning movement during the adverts if I want), and permanently erected.  Ideally, though I haven'e managed it, all the stock should be on the track at all times, and operation can begin or end at immediate notice. 

 

The result is a layout that I enjoy, am not in any way getting bored with yet, and serves my purpose admirably within the limit of what I can afford and have space and time for.  It has been fundamentally 'finished' for some 5 years now, though there is plenty I still want to do to it.  If this is a success, and I contend that it is, it shows that I am fundamentally interested in operating, enjoy building kits and kitbashing, but have very little interest in the actualite` of building layouts: I am not a serial layout builder.  This is the layout, it has to last the rest of my natural, and had to be got right first time.

 

It was got right first time, but this was after a process of several years of concepts, drawing out trackplans, thinking about what sort of operations I wanted to recreate, what I wanted it to look like and so on.  This was achieved at the cost of a few A4 pads, a school geometry set, and a good few pencils, and various concepts were tried out, evolved, and rejected or continued with, or revisited, during this period.  A given was area and period. it was always going to be South Wales in the 1950s and it was never going to be main line because I couldn't afford big engines and  stock for long trains.  In the end, it came down to 'Cardiff North Dock', a shunting layout with a high level yard for coal traffic, 'Porthogwr', a small and semi-derelict harbour on the Bristol Channel coast, and 'Cwmdimbath'.

 

Cwmdimbath made the final cut, for sheer biodiversity of engines and stock, and when push came to shove I did not lay to the drawn scale trackplan (KISS, remember), but simply laid a 10" (one inch longer than an Airfix large prairie) run around loop headshunt, and let the track fall where I dropped it from there out towards Glynogwr Jc.  Natural looking gentle curves enhancing the 'railway in a landscape' principle, feeling of the railway, and the village, being hemmed in by an oppressively narrow valley brought about by near vertical bank backscene representing 1,500' mountain.  Very much the atmosphere I was after, a bit grim, always raining, we're Welsh, and we enjoy a bit of suffering and misery...

 

I wouldn't swap it for a Pendon scene for any cost; Pendon is brilliant, inspirational, magnificent, but where's the operation, where's the shunting, I'd be bored out of my mind in a few hours!  Nor would I swap it for Borchester Market, IMHO the epitome of operational layouts, because I'm a lone wolf operator and that layout needs half a dozen skilled and trained operators for a session.  Wouldn't do for me! 

Edited May 7, 2022 by The Johnster

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Dagworth said:

Price of timber is my biggest issue at the moment, I don’t have need for much in the way of currently available stock (although if Bachmann did another run of FFA and FGA Freightliner wagons it would severely affect my bank balance!) 

 

Andi

You should try buying blue engineering bricks (or rather you shouldn't).  The rate at which their price has risen makes model railway price rises look ridiculous.  And it is extremely difficult to find any  'specials' let alone in the very small quantities you could once buy from stock at local builders' merchants.  They  can now only be obtained, sometimes, by special order (if you're very lucky) or by mail order from the manufacturer.  

 

Compared to them model railway items are not only easier to buy but prices vary to some extent and delays to supplies are more like a walk in the park than anything to worry about.  I know very few of us on here buy (real) bricks rather than brick paper or embossed brick sheets but my point is that model railways are but one small area where various factors have combined to increase prices by a considerable amount - railway modellers are not alone.

 

19 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Once upon a time, the suggestion there would even BE four new locos a year to buy would have seen jaws drop.

Some of us can remember when one new loco announced every four years was probably nearer the mark !

[The Johnster]

Current Hornby locos, online catalogue; 28 electric, 81 diesel, 174 steam.  Admittedly some of these are livery variants, bit this still probably represents about 200 toolings.  Triang 1960, from memory and roughly, but ballpark and not counting Transcontinental; 2 electric, 3 diesel, 8 steam including livery variants. 
 

Hornby Dublo 1960, again from memory; 1 diesel, 7 steam.  Really, a completely different world of RTR, no comparison, and it’s the same story with rolling stock.  Now during the intervening 62 years, new types of electric and diesel have appeared as prototypes, and this accounts for much of the increased number of different toolings for such models, but look at the steam locos!  No new designs built since 1954, but a 1960 RTR total of 17 classes when you include Graham Farish, and well over 100 even including the livery variations from Hornby alone, now!

 

Part of this is the companies’ perception of what customers wanted (I will try not to comment on how accurate I think they were or are).  Back in the day, a model railway seems to have been thought of as a complete railway in 6’x4’, so it needed an express passenger loco to pull 3 coaches, tops, a medium size tank engine to pull two suburbans or a goods, which might also appear behind a 3F (Triang) or 8F (HD), and an 0-6-0T that did everything else, with stations, goods sheds, &c being deliberately generic.  If you were bothered at all with matching your stock to a period, location, or railway company/region, you were likely out of the reckoning so far as RTR was concerned, and you were quite probably Peter Denny or Frank Dyer (and even he used Kitmaster mk1s).  
 

It was another 20 years before it began to be possible to create model railways to a period or location from RTR products, and it is possible now to do this for a large variety of periods and locations, because the marketing focus has shifted more towards our wishlists and away from a basic spread of classes to handle all the traffic on a 6x4.  Anyone wanting to build a layout based, say, on the Cambrian in 1961, can start now and 2 RTR Manors and a 78xxx will be on the market before the track is laid; everything else is already available!  This feeds into the collector market as well; those guys love RTR biodiversity especially if a model becomes ‘r@re’, collectorspeak for ‘not available at current time from Hatton’s’. 
 

 

Oh, let joy be unconfined, that I should live to see such days!

Oh, woe is me, I am undone, when I see the price rises!

Oh, well, never mind, eh?

[Steamport Southport]

Could have modelled the GWR/BR steam era Cambrian in the late 1970s and early 1980s though.

 

Between them Mainline, Airfix and to a lesser extent Hornby and Lima made almost everything needed.

 

 

 

Jason

[No Decorum]

On 07/05/2022 at 15:24, Phil Parker said:

 

Once upon a time, the suggestion there would even BE four new locos a year to buy would have seen jaws drop.

True. A young fella like yourself might not remember the excitement Hornby tried to generate with “The Year of the 4-4-0”. One 4-4-0 from each of the Big Four. A common chassis with six axle slots to accommodate short and long coupled wheelbases with everything adjusted to use as many standard parts as possible. We might have come a long way since then but at least all the wheels were flanged! 

[Steamport Southport]

20 hours ago, No Decorum said:

True. A young fella like yourself might not remember the excitement Hornby tried to generate with “The Year of the 4-4-0”. One 4-4-0 from each of the Big Four. A common chassis with six axle slots to accommodate short and long coupled wheelbases with everything adjusted to use as many standard parts as possible. We might have come a long way since then but at least all the wheels were flanged! 

 

Year of the loco in 1981

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/year_details.asp?yearid=18

 

The same year they released new versions of the 7MT, BB and LNER A1 Paciifcs. With the new J13/J52 as well as a Class 86.

 

I remember it well. But the models were still partly in the toy department compared to the stuff that Mainline was making I'm afraid. Very much playing catch up.

 

Mainline released two or three new locomotive types per year in their short lifespan.

 

http://www.mainlinerailways.org.uk/LocomotivesA.htm

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

23 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Could have modelled the GWR/BR steam era Cambrian in the late 1970s and early 1980s though.

 

Between them Mainline, Airfix and to a lesser extent Hornby and Lima made almost everything needed.

 

 

 

Jason

Yes, you could've made a fair fist of it; Mainline 4MT, Manor and 43xx, Airfix Dean Goods, Hornby Ivatt Mogul.  Hornby Collett bowenders, Mainline Collet 60' flatenders, Lima mk1s for the CCE.

 

But now, add Bachmann Dukedog, 45xx, 4575, 3MT tank, better Ivatt Mogul, upcoming Hornby BR 2MT Mogul, better Dapol 43xx and 2x upcoming Manors, Oxford Dean Goods, Hornby Hawksworth and Collett coaches to a very high standard, better mk1s in greater variety, Bachmann 101 and 108 dmus, Bachmann Class 24; the gaps are filled in pretty comprehensively.

 

If I were to propose a club exhibition layout that took the maximum advantage of RTR locos and rolling stock, I'd suggest Bristol Lawrence Hill 1961/2.  Any and every WR steam, 1361 to King inclusive, all the hydraulics (except D95xx), 03, 08, massive selection of LMS/LMR steam and diesel types, some Southern stock on Portsmouth-Cardiffs, some LNER on the high level (a B1 worked through to Weston-Super-Mare once), pretty much any gangwayed carriage stock extant at the time.  There are probably other modellable locations offering a similar range of stock, and RTR can supply it.

 

There are still gaps, of course.  The sheer number of pre-grouping types still around in the early 50s can probably never be fully covered, so, say, a GW branch set in the inter-war years will be missing a cascaded Metro, 517, 2021, 850, and some of the older coaching stock.  Modelling ex NER branch for the same period might be missing some pre-grouping 4-4-0s, and there are no NBR Atlantics.  0-4-4 tanks are a bit thin on the ground as well.  Even relatively modern emus are missing, as well as some first generation dmus that saw long service over a wide area like 120s. But the RTR is quantum different from 1960; it had expanded considerably by 1970 despite the loss of HD, and by 1980 the appearance of Mainline, Airfix, Lima and so on had laid the foundations for the current scene,  3 years ago I would have been willing to bet that I woud never see any GW non-gangayed stock other than the ex-Airfix B set; blindsided brilliantly by Mr Kohler, who delivered them to the shelves very shortly after the announcement!

 

We may be experiencing 'peak RTR'; I notice that the number of models currently available ln the Bachmann online  catalogue is much reduced and there seems to be a general belt-tightening.  RTR locos, and to an extent rolling stock, are going down the commisioning path and the batch production of items by the traditional players will, I think, in future, mean a lower selection of models being produced at any given time, while older stock is still available in the shops, so there will be a sort of grey area between production and availabliity; eBay will take advantage of this, as will some dealers who will hoard stock until it is less availabe.  If the item you want isn't in the shops or being produced, you'll have to wait for the next batch, which could be up to 10 years away, and the companies will not be in any great rush to predict when they are going to produce it again, given that we know their crystal balls are not all that reliable (Bachmann 94xx).

 

The advice will be, already is to a considerable extent, to buy it now if you want it, whatever it is, when it is available to avoid the long wait when it isn't, which is of limited value to those of us on limited, low, and fixed incomes, but as we are inevitably very much a secondary factor in the reckoning of the marketeers in a world where £1 = 1 say in the matter, we cannot be expected to be catered for; this is how the world is and there's no point in letting it bother you, build a smaller layout with less stock and be happy.  But it is a big difference to the pre-21st century world, when once an item was in the calalogue it was likely to remain there in continuous production for many years, occasionally being retooled and upgraded.  There has been a Stanier Princess in Hornby's range since the first Rovex train set, and a Britannia has been available since 1961; Bachmann are still knocking out incorrect LMS cattle wagons dating back to the first Mainline catalogue.  I suspect this approach is not going to last much longer.

 

If 'buy it now' becomes embedded in our attitudes to buying new stock, this will be a good thing for the companies, who will be better able to predict the market and increase profitability, but it sadly encourages them to develop a 'customers are cash cows' attitude.  This is also how the world is.

Edited May 9, 2022 by The Johnster

[Steamport Southport]

Missing the Hornby and Mainline 57xx/8750, Lima 4575, Hornby Dublo BR 4MT 2-6-4T*, Mainline 2251, Airfix 14XX, etc.

 

Also don't forget all the foreign coaches that came from the North and Midlands to the holiday resorts. I've seen photos of whole trains of LMS and LNER stock going to places like Barmouth and Pwllheli.

 

All my Mark Ones were the Mainline ones in the WR Chocolate and Cream.

 

 

I think the influence of Merl Evans was quite telling in the choice of Mainline models. Even the LNER J72s were common in Wrexham.

 

 

*Still plenty about on the shelves at the time though never had one. Got the Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T instead.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited May 10, 2022 by Steamport Southport

[andyman7]

On 09/05/2022 at 14:19, Steamport Southport said:

 

Year of the loco in 1981

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/year_details.asp?yearid=18

 

The same year they released new versions of the 7MT, BB and LNER A1 Paciifcs. With the new J13/J52 as well as a Class 86.

 

I remember it well. But the models were still partly in the toy department compared to the stuff that Mainline was making I'm afraid. Very much playing catch up.

 

Mainline released two or three new locomotive types per year in their short lifespan.

 

http://www.mainlinerailways.org.uk/LocomotivesA.htm

 

 

 

Jason

The Mainline models were fantastic in detail and finish but very few are left running today whereas the Hornby locos can be kept in service indefinitely with their robust and easily available and interchangeable parts. That counts for something, especially as the 80s Margate offerings were a step forward from the shiny plastic and bright colours of the 70s. 

[The Johnster]

Forgot the ML 2251, and the Lima 4575 which is the less forgivable because I had them!  Didn't consider the Hornby 8750 as not, in my mind, a 'proper' model (strangely, I will accept the 2721 at a push after a bit of working up), and 57xx/8750 were not common on the Cambrian Section 'proper', by which I think I mean west of Welshpool where the Shrewsbury line joined.  14xx were only common at Barmouth from the Dolgellau direction ISTR.  Mainline never did an 8750, not that that stopped me from converting a 57xx with an old K's 8750 cab.

 

I was no shape of a finescale modeller back then (or now!) but I drew the line at Hornby because of the 2mm excess height at the buffers.  At one time I had a layout based on the imaginary Llanmadoc branch on Gower, LNW/GW joint, in the early 60s and had a Hornby Hymek, 'Silver Seal' Black 5 and a Fowler tank,but only ever ran them with Hornby stock to attempt to conceal this as much as possible.  Llanmadoc was  the last layout I tolerated this on, given to a friend who rebuilt it as a South Devon Kingswear lookalike.  It was many years before I bought a Hornby product again, and I wonder how much they lost in sales because of the buffer height issue, rooted IIRC in Rovex's need to get a Black Princess around 13" curves without the front bogie fouling the cylinders.

 

Llanmadoc wasn't a bad concept, the Penclawdd/Llanmorlais branch extended along the edge of the Llanrhidian marsh for a limestone quarry/cement works, and excuse for big engines and NPCCS on cockle traffic.  There wasn't much exceptional about it, a more or less standard BLT of the day, but good fun to shunt with the quayside sidings as a kick back off the goods yard, necessitating a healthy amount of running around.

Edited May 10, 2022 by The Johnster