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Shunters moving from one location to another in BR days


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  • RMweb Gold

I recently purchased a Bachmann Class 03 (03026) which was commonly seen in my modelling area of Sleaford and Boston in the late 70’s and early 80’s.  While it was LN allocated, it got me wondering how it traveled between Lincoln, Sleaford and Boston?

 

I’ve seen pictures of 08’s being moved from depot to works with the rods off, behind the train loco but I assume that a 03 would be driven on the mainline for the short distance, probably at night or during a quiet period or mixed in with a normal freight train.

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03s were capable of quite surprisingly decent speeds, up to 40mph IIRC, unlike 08s which were restricted to 15mph and were a proper pita in a long section.  Dead locos moved in freight trains with the rods off were (again, IIRC) marshalled behind the loco on a class 9 freight or behind the fitted brake head on a class 8 or 7, and were restricted to 35mph. 

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  • RMweb Gold
2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

03s were capable of quite surprisingly decent speeds, up to 40mph IIRC, unlike 08s which were restricted to 15mph and were a proper pita in a long section.  Dead locos moved in freight trains with the rods off were (again, IIRC) marshalled behind the loco on a class 9 freight or behind the fitted brake head on a class 8 or 7, and were restricted to 35mph. 


Can I assume that it wouldn’t be a surprise to see a 03 trundling along between Sleaford and Boston or from Lincoln?  Would the move be done at night and would it be on it’s own or bring it’s match truck with it?

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Not necessarily at night; any suitable path for a 40mph movement could be used.  As for the match truck, not my field of expertise but I would assume so if the intention was to use the loco as a station pilot at Sleaford.  If it was to be a yard pilot or other duty not on a running line, there would be no need, so it would depend on the loco's intended use at Sleaford.

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  • RMweb Gold

The official top speed of a Class 03 was 27 mph. 

I remember them working the Albion shunt trip from Monument Lane in the 1960s before the electrification came.

It went out to Albion on Monday at 0420, arriving at 0439 and was outstabled IIRC, working daily between Albion, West Bromwich Gas works, Oldbury Goods and Spon Lane Basin, returning at some time on Saturday. At one time I think they also got on 18 Trip which went as far as Tipton and Bloomfield Junction.

Sometimes it took a train between yards and at other times it was booked Engine and Brake. 

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Some of the regular workings of Class 03 were of considerable length. The Eastern had a Gateshead one out-stationed at Tweedmouth, Berwick on Tweed, which would be exchanged once a week. This working continued until the demise of Speedlink. The Western had a working to Llandovery from Pantyffynon, with an intermediate stop at Llandeilo, until the Miners' Strike, mainly carrying coal, though sometimes also MoD traffic. 

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  • RMweb Gold

Spot on with PITAs ! When trainspotting at Abbotswood back in the day we could guess if a 350 was travelling up from Gloucester to Worcester by the long gap in traffic before it appeared in the distance beyond Pirton crossing ….

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18 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Spot on with PITAs ! When trainspotting at Abbotswood back in the day we could guess if a 350 was travelling up from Gloucester to Worcester by the long gap in traffic before it appeared in the distance beyond Pirton crossing ….

At Radyr we used to send ours to Canton for fuel and that took plenty long enough although fortunately we didn't have to send them every  week.

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I recall reading that's during the 1980s an 08 was sent daily from Leeds up to Skipton to shunt the Limestone trains coming down from Swinden Quarry near Grassington.

 

It used to make the journey to and from Leeds along the Aire Valley Line every day which was a distance of around 27 miles. It was the first and last train movement of the day along the line.

 

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

At Radyr we used to send ours to Canton for fuel and that took plenty long enough although fortunately we didn't have to send them every  week.

 

If only someone could have invented a lorry, with say, a fuel tank on the back!

Probably against Union rules and practices.

 

Mike.

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14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

As for the match truck, not my field of expertise but I would assume so if the intention was to use the loco as a station pilot at Sleaford.  If it was to be a yard pilot or other duty not on a running line, there would be no need, so it would depend on the loco's intended use at Sleaford.

The 03 'match truck' was normally there to ensure that track circuits were activated, the loco on its own being insufficiently reliable in this respect. It would therefore need the match truck on the main line as well, unless attached to something else which would serve the same function.

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17 hours ago, The Johnster said:

03s were capable of quite surprisingly decent speeds, up to 40mph IIRC, unlike 08s which were restricted to 15mph and were a proper pita in a long section.  Dead locos moved in freight trains with the rods off were (again, IIRC) marshalled behind the loco on a class 9 freight or behind the fitted brake head on a class 8 or 7, and were restricted to 35mph. 

…08s were 10mph with rods on when hauled and 25mph with rods off/demeshed.

 

BeRTIe

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8 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

If only someone could have invented a lorry, with say, a fuel tank on the back!

Probably against Union rules and practices.

 

Mike.

It is of course exactly what happens nowadays in quitea few places.  But if you are going to do it legally it dies need various site arrangements put in place which require capital expenditure (which, regrettably, hasn't always happened at some places where locos are refuelled by road tankers).  

 

the other side of the coin is the frequency at which exams are required - which usually need a pit plus replacement of consumables, especially brake blocks in some part s of the country.  So road tankers aren't necessarily an ideal answer. 

 

3 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

The 03 'match truck' was normally there to ensure that track circuits were activated, the loco on its own being insufficiently reliable in this respect. It would therefore need the match truck on the main line as well, unless attached to something else which would serve the same function.

The main reason for the longer wheelbase requirement (achieved by adding a runner) was to cope with certain track circuiting arrangements through pointwork, especially complex pointwork.  Thus out on open line, and providing there were no difficulties anywhere with pointwork track circuits, there was no need to lengthen the wheelbase.

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  • RMweb Gold
1 hour ago, melmerby said:

IIRC the shunters PWM650 etc (97/6) were delivered by road to WR.


IIRC the PWMs had a lever in the cab which demeshed the traction motor allowing them to be towed at a faster speed than would have otherwise been advisable…. But as this was largely in engineering trains speeds above 25 mph should not theoretically have been common . 

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2 hours ago, BR traction instructor said:

…08s were 10mph with rods on when hauled and 25mph with rods off/demeshed.

 

BeRTIe

Demeshed to prevent the motors birdnesting (bursting their armature winding banding) presumably? An LMS jackshaft shunter used by the WD to move railway guns at Dover overspeeded down through Guston tunnel and did that, it locked the wheels up (P. M. Kalla - Bishop; Locomotives at War).

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1 hour ago, Artless Bodger said:

Demeshed to prevent the motors birdnesting (bursting their armature winding banding) presumably? 

 

Yes, that's right

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  • RMweb Gold

I've driven an 08 from York to Thornaby and was absolutely soul destroying! 

We used to have a regular job from Tees Yard to hartlepool docks the had an 08 on. It was news print in VGA vans . The TOPS list used to say has sufficient brake force to run class 4! 

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18 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

The official top speed of a Class 03 was 27 mph. 

 

Yes, max speed was about 27 mph with an 03, and as they were mechanical transmission and the diesel engine revs were governed, they wouldn't do much more - not that you'd want to if you wanted to remain on the seat.

 

5 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Some of the regular workings of Class 03 were of considerable length. The Eastern had a Gateshead one out-stationed at Tweedmouth, Berwick on Tweed, which would be exchanged once a week. 

 

Ah yes, it was a regular job from Gateshead depot changing the Tweedmouth pilot at Berwick, a distance of 67 miles.

This was generally done during the day too. The running foreman would be waiting of a fresh shed crew signing on to go straight out with it, and we would, of course, become rather well acquainted with every loop en-route.

Usually, by thr time we got there we'd end up needing to travel back pass, and another crew would be needed to send out pass to collect the other one

As it was main line running, and they were needed for track circuits operation, the runner would be attached.

In fact, although the runners were only required when on running lines for the track circuits, it wasn't normal practice to detach them even when being used on shed or in goods yards

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47 minutes ago, Ken.W said:

 

Yes, max speed was about 27 mph with an 03, and as they were mechanical transmission and the diesel engine revs were governed, they wouldn't do much more - not that you'd want to if you wanted to remain on the seat.

 

 

Ah yes, it was a regular job from Gateshead depot changing the Tweedmouth pilot at Berwick, a distance of 67 miles.

This was generally done during the day too. The running foreman would be waiting of a fresh shed crew signing on to go straight out with it, and we would, of course, become rather well acquainted with every loop en-route.

Usually, by thr time we got there we'd end up needing to travel back pass, and another crew would be needed to send out pass to collect the other one

As it was main line running, and they were needed for track circuits operation, the runner would be attached.

In fact, although the runners were only required when on running lines for the track circuits, it wasn't normal practice to detach them even when being used on shed or in goods yards

 

Evening Ken , not sure where this came from but I've heard it said that only a loco with two tone horns was allowed to work that job. Is there any truth in that?

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58 minutes ago, Ken.W said:

Yes, max speed was about 27 mph with an 03, and as they were mechanical transmission and the diesel engine revs were governed, they wouldn't do much more -

I remember reading somewhere that the theoretical maximum was 28.3 mph with the engine at permitted full revs. That would probably require that there was no tyre wear.

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1 hour ago, russ p said:

 

Evening Ken , not sure where this came from but I've heard it said that only a loco with two tone horns was allowed to work that job. Is there any truth in that?

 

Evening Russ, sorry but don't remember if that's true or not

 

Maybe because of the distance of main line running to get it there?

 

Actually, l think l should have put the Gateshead to Berwick distance as 134 miles with an 03...

67 miles forwards....

 

Plus another 67 miles side to side

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  • RMweb Gold

The only Diesels I have driven are 03s and 04s on preserved lines so 10mph. They do wobble a bit at that speed so flat out was probably very entertraining!

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