WCML London to Glasgow - 1962-64 - Locomotive changes.

[scottystitch]

Can anyone advise the situation in the above time period regarding locomotive changes on trains between London and Glasgow.

 

I'm aware that many Glasgow trains changed locomotives at Crewe. Did the same happen at Carlisle?

 

Also what about the other way, Glasgow - London? Did the locomotive come off at Carlisle and then Crewe?

 

Trains between Glasgow and Liverpool/Manchester, Same locomotive throughout or change at Carlisle?

 

My roster will use mainly Type 4s (40) and Princess Coronations for the London trains. Jubilee and Royal Scots for the Liverpool/Manchester.

 

Many thanks

 

Best

 

Scott.

[DY444]

4 hours ago, scottystitch said:

Can anyone advise the situation in the above time period regarding locomotive changes on trains between London and Glasgow.

 

I'm aware that many Glasgow trains changed locomotives at Crewe. Did the same happen at Carlisle?

 

Also what about the other way, Glasgow - London? Did the locomotive come off at Carlisle and then Crewe?

 

Trains between Glasgow and Liverpool/Manchester, Same locomotive throughout or change at Carlisle?

 

My roster will use mainly Type 4s (40) and Princess Coronations for the London trains. Jubilee and Royal Scots for the Liverpool/Manchester.

 

Many thanks

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

I'll leave north of Crewe for others but in that time window the electrification had not been completed all the way to Euston.  It was commissioned in stages south from Crewe and the electric locomotives worked first to Stafford then Nuneaton then Rugby as things progressed.  By 1964 locomotives were being changed at Nuneaton and as the LMR tended to want to use electric locomotives as much as possible, most trains*, including those to/from Preston and points north, would stop there to change locomotives.  Trains to/from Liverpool and Manchester would obviously be worked through to/from Nuneaton by the electric locomotive but other trains would also change locomotives again at Crewe.  

 

*Some trains didn't, primarily as a way of exchanging the diesel locomotives used south of the extent of the electrification without resorting to light engine movements.

Edited May 12, 2022 by DY444

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, DY444 said:

 

I'll leave north of Crewe for others but in that time window the electrification had not been completed all the way to Euston.  It was commissioned in stages south from Crewe and the electric locomotives worked first to Stafford then Nuneaton then Rugby as things progressed.  By 1964 locomotives were being changed at Nuneaton and as the LMR tended to want to use electric locomotives as much as possible, most trains*, including those to/from Preston and points north, would stop there to change locomotives.  Trains to/from Liverpool and Manchester would obviously be worked through to/from Nuneaton by the electric locomotive but other trains would also change locomotives again at Crewe.  

 

*Some trains didn't, primarily as a way of exchanging the diesel locomotives used south of the extent of the electrification without resorting to light engine movements.

I think the changing over at Stafford was rather limited  wasn't it just trains to/.from the West Midlands from either Manchester  or Liverpool?   There was something about it in 'Modern Railways' at the time I seem to vaguely recall

[scottystitch]

thanks for the information so far. 
 

For clarity my project is set in Glasgow so I’m concerned primarily with trains to and from Glasgow. 
 

best

 

scott. 

[DY444]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I think the changing over at Stafford was rather limited  wasn't it just trains to/.from the West Midlands from either Manchester  or Liverpool?   There was something about it in 'Modern Railways' at the time I seem to vaguely recall

 

I think you're right.  Indeed it's always struck me how many of the pictures of electrically hauled up service trains in those very early days show 1V or 1G headcodes.   Once Nuneaton was energised then most trains were electrically worked.

[MidlandRed]

22 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I think the changing over at Stafford was rather limited  wasn't it just trains to/.from the West Midlands from either Manchester  or Liverpool?   There was something about it in 'Modern Railways' at the time I seem to vaguely recall

I don’t recall engine changes at Stafford either - however I do recall a visit there in 1963/4, and three successive southbound passenger trains were hauled by a class 81, a class 40 and Britannia Pacific 70048 (with its huge, two line nameplate)! Demonstrating the range of power in use at that time! Maybe the 40 and Brit were headed for Wolverhampton/ Birmingham as I recall spotting around Tamworth in that era, all the passenger services seemed to be hauled by electric locos. 

[The Border Reiver]

As a Carlisle lad born and bred, nearly all London-Glasgow and Glasgow-London express trains only changed locos at Carlisle. Before they were withdrawn Coronations from Camden, Carlisle and Polmadie were used