Lyme Regis branch (LSWR)

[KeithMacdonald]

Has this been discussed?

The LSWR branch line from a junction station at Axminster to Lyme Regis.

 

 

 

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

The layout of the junction at Axminster is quite interesting. The down line is no surprise, just a gentle curve away from the main line to turn south towards Lyme Regis. But does anyone know why the up line from Lyme Regis needed a bridge over the main line? That must have involved some major effort and earthworks.

 

[pH]

8 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

The layout of the junction at Axminster is quite interesting. The down line is no surprise, just a gentle curve away from the main line to turn south towards Lyme Regis. But does anyone know why the up line from Lyme Regis needed a bridge over the main line? That must have involved some major effort and earthworks.

 

The down line connection was only for through trains, and I don’t know how many of them there were. 
 

The branch line trains used the overbridge in both directions. They were handled at the outer (northerly) face of the up mainline platform, and didn’t use the through mainline roads.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/80572914@N06/7398258026/in/album-72157630154802550/

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by pH

[KeithMacdonald]

According to Wikipaedia:

Quote

In 1903 Axminster became a junction when the Lyme Regis branch line was opened. A bay platform (terminus) was built (on the west side) yet the branch climbed at 1 in 80 (1.25%) to cross the main line south of the station by a bridge. A short 1-in-40 connection ran from the goods yard directly to the branch removed in 1915. The engine shed was demolished to make room for the new branch, but a new coal stage and water tank was built next to the terminus. The lever frame in the signal box was extended in 1903 to accommodate the new line, and three years later full signalling on the branch required the building to be extended

 

Well that suggests all the passenger traffic did use the bridge to a terminus beside the main up line. But still I'm wondering, why bother doing it that way?

[ClikC]

I'm far from an Expert on anything Southern or Steam, but Lyme Regis wasn't far from where I lived in Sidmouth.

 

The flyover is likely just to avoid conflicts with the mainline to waterloo, even though the line was destined to be reduced to single track in later years. 

Axminster Change for Lyme Regis

Regards

 

Matt

Edited May 15, 2022 by ClikC

[pH]

1 minute ago, KeithMacdonald said:

But still I'm wondering, why bother doing it that way?

Down mainline trains could be doing close to 100mph through Axminster, official speed restrictions or not. Presumably the arrangement was thought worthwhile to keep the branch train away from any possible conflicts.

 

Other places were like this - Sandy, I think, on the ECML?

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Looks like the station area could have interesting modelling possibilities?

 

 

There's the branch terminus with its reversing loop, a footbridge across to the down platform. A small bay platform beside the down line?

 

Then there's the goods sidings, with several sheds and cattle pens, and what looks like a siding for what was originally a saw mill, but became the site for Axminster Carpets in 1937.

[KeithMacdonald]

The only station before Lyme Regis was at Combpyne, which provided a passing loop and one small siding with a cattle pen.

 

 

Disused Stations has a few pictures, and tells us that the passing loop only lasted until 1930. After which it became a location for a camping coach.

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/combpyne/index.shtml

[KeithMacdonald]

Thanks to @pH for the Flickr pic of 41206 at Axminster in 1962.

 

BRDatabase says it was allocated to Exmouth Junction

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=426254007&loco=1206

 

Would this Bachmann model (renumbered) be appropriate for the period?

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/lms-ivatt-2mt-tank-41227-br-lined-black-(british-railways)/31-443

 

Disused Stations also gives us some good photos of traffic on the line.

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/combpyne/index10.shtml

[phil_sutters]

On 15/05/2022 at 22:57, pH said:

The down line connection was only for through trains, and I don’t know how many of them there were. 
 

The branch line trains used the overbridge in both directions. They were handled at the outer (northerly) face of the up mainline platform, and didn’t use the through mainline roads.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/80572914@N06/7398258026/in/album-72157630154802550/

 

Dad's spotting log, on Saturday 3.9.1960, records 30582 and 30583 at Lyme Regis on the 9 a.m. to Waterloo. The Radials only worked the train to Axminster. Possibly the through trains or through carriages were Summer Saturdays only. Looking at the map in the original post, that train would have to use the lower line and cross over to the up mainline before reaching the station. Coming off the down main would have been more straight forward.

Here are his photos of the branch.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by phil_sutters
Caption misspelt.

[KeithMacdonald]

22 hours ago, pH said:

The down line connection was only for through trains, and I don’t know how many of them there were. 

 

21 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

Possibly the through trains or through carriages were Summer Saturdays only.

 

Thanks for the responses, but I have to confess I'm still (easily) confused.

 

Signal Box Diagrams says

Quote

A drawing of the signal box track layout for Axminster (London & South Western Railway) box at 1959, from the collection of John Hinson.

 

Is 1959 significant? It shows the up and down line to Lyme Regis crossing the mainline over a bridge, and it looks like the down line connection to the branch had been removed. So I'm puzzled how through carriages could have worked. Or did it stop before 1959? The up line doesn't seem to have had a direct line for through trains either. It's a mystery!

 

https://signalbox.org/~SBdiagram.php?id= 278

[KeithMacdonald]

Before we get to Lyme Regis, it's worth mentioning the Cannington Viaduct, an impressive concrete construction.

 

CRS's page:

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/latest-input--news--old-pictures-etc/cannington-viaduct-on-the-lyme-regis-branch-mike-roach

 

and a YouTube video:

 

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

More pics from the CRS on this page:

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/axminster-to-lyme-regis-branch.html

[KeithMacdonald]

Thanks to Flickr for some pics of Lyme Regis station

 

and

 

[KeithMacdonald]

The layout above and the NLS map seem fairly similar.

 

 

I've drawn that layout from the map here:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/106010478

[KeithMacdonald]

Finally, the station in sadder times.  Most of the track already gone, and what's happened to the signal box?

 

This pic on Flickr from the KDH archive

 

Quote

28th of July 1965 and a view of Lyme Regis Station with a single car DMU present.

 

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

More on the track layout at Axminster.

The Signalling Record Society has a page that shows three different diagrams.

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/srm/S3419.htm

 

The 1903 diagram shows a link from the down line to the branch line. The next diagram is dated 1938, and the link has been removed.

 

Axminster must have had some goods traffic, we can see it in one of the pics above. But anything arriving on the down line must have had a lot of shunting to get it onto the branch line on the up side?

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Another view of the one remaining track.

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Back in Axminster, thanks to Ernie's Archive for this.

 

Looks like Axminster Carpets factory being demolished in the background?

41322 (from Exmouth Junction) in the branch platform.

Anyone know what kind of coach is attached?

 

 

[phil-b259]

On 15/05/2022 at 23:02, ClikC said:

 

 

The flyover is likely just to avoid conflicts with the mainline to waterloo, even though the line was destined to be reduced to single track in later years. 

 

 

I think the point is why go to all that expense-  instead of modifying the yard slightly and adding a suitable bay on the Down side of the station.

[phil_sutters]

21 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

 

Thanks for the responses, but I have to confess I'm still (easily) confused.

 

Signal Box Diagrams says

 

Is 1959 significant? It shows the up and down line to Lyme Regis crossing the mainline over a bridge, and it looks like the down line connection to the branch had been removed. So I'm puzzled how through carriages could have worked. Or did it stop before 1959? The up line doesn't seem to have had a direct line for through trains either. It's a mystery!

 

https://signalbox.org/~SBdiagram.php?id= 278

As above - Dad's log was showing the through train/coaches in August 1960.

[Mallard60022]

51 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

I think the point is why go to all that expense-  instead of modifying the yard slightly and adding a suitable bay on the Down side of the station.

It was easier to do the required shunts on the Up side and keep things away from the main as much as possible. Down, through coaches were left at the Down Platform and then collected by the  Branch Engine(s).

Saturdays only, Summer Timetable. Largest train was 5 Coaches from a Ten Coach Train off Waterloo (can't get to look up the time, sorry, but it would have been about middle of the day?). The other 5 Coaches, including a Restaurant Car, went on to Seaton Junction, where it terminated on the Main. Pacific went LE to Exeter after reversing the coaches onto the Seaton Branch and a waiting Engine and then the 5 coach Train went down the Seaton Branch to Seaton. They either stayed there a week or came back up almost straight away; I can't remember at the moment?

I do not know how exactly how the shunt for the Lyme Train was carried out at Axminster, however I believe it involved a Branch Engine attaching and reverse back up the Down Main and then a crossover to the UP Main. Thence the Train progressed down the UP Main and onto the Branch.

Sounds like fun, but as far as I know happened only once on a Summer TT Saturday. Other Down Passengers for Lyme used the Station FB to cross to the Branch Bay from the Down main Platform.

 The 5 Lyme Coaches returned almost immediately to Axminster and were attached to the rear of the up Express from SJ*.

*Pacific LE from 72A onto the UP SJ Platform , the 5 Coaches from the Seaton Branch being hauled off the Branch and across to the Up Main and then pushed onto the rear of this Engine that then proceeded to Axminster (4 minutes away).

Through coaches ceased in September 1961/2 IIRC?

This may not be totally authentic without me checking my Library and there may have been a few other odd Coach moves in a similar way, if things were very very busy, but I have no evidence of this. Those Coaches were just left at Lyme or used to return folk to Axminster. Same routine as above presumably? 

These Trains are based on 1958 to 1962 Timetables.

Hope this helps despite being a weeny bit UP and Down and around and around?

Phil

[Mallard60022]

On 16/05/2022 at 00:12, phil_sutters said:

Dad's spotting log, on Saturday 3.9.1960, records 30582 and 30583 at Lyme Regis on the 9 a.m. to Waterloo. The Radials only worked the train to Axminster. Possibly the through trains or through carriages were Summer Saturdays only. Looking at the map in the original post, that train would have to use the lower line and cross over to the up mainline before reaching the station. Coming off the down main would have been more straight forward.

Here are his photos of the branch.

 

Classic photo's Phil. Thank you so much.

Axminster Station still has some 'atmosphere' and is now double track again. The old Goods Shed is still in use a some sort of Business.

The little Cafe on the Down Platform, has a load of pics and is excellent for a Cuppa and Butties etc.

Phil

Edited May 17, 2022 by Mallard60022

[adanapress]

As a boy scout I went, with loads of others, in around 1952 or 3  to a semi=permanent scout camp near the intermediate station on the line -

called Combpyne or something like that.  I do recall an extremely winding track and deal of track squealing noises.   Don't recall much else I'm afraid, except we did definitely have to 'change trains' at the Junction, no kind of 'though' train for us.   I think I recall only two coaches.

[Tobbes]

On 15/05/2022 at 22:57, pH said:

The down line connection was only for through trains, and I don’t know how many of them there were.

Coming to this late, my apologies, @pH.

 

The down side connection to the branch at Axminster was an early casualty after opening to Lyme Regis in 1903: it was taken out of use in September 1915 and removed shortly thereafter for simple operational reasons. The connection itself was tight and steep, and required stopping on the (tight, steep) curve to change the points to allow access to the branch (the implication was that there was a ground frame there, but I've never seen a picture), and then to stop again on the 1-in-40 to reset the points before heading for Lyme. Much easier to shunt across to the branch side and use the flyover, even if the actual track layout could've been much better designed.

 

On 16/05/2022 at 00:12, phil_sutters said:

Dad's spotting log, on Saturday 3.9.1960, records 30582 and 30583 at Lyme Regis on the 9 a.m. to Waterloo. The Radials only worked the train to Axminster. Possibly the through trains or through carriages were Summer Saturdays only. Looking at the map in the original post, that train would have to use the lower line and cross over to the up mainline before reaching the station. Coming off the down main would have been more straight forward.

Here are his photos of the branch.

 

 

 

Fabulous pictures, @phil_sutters

 

My understanding so far from doing a bit of research for a future Axminster model (someday!) is that the 9.00 am ex-Lyme on Summer Saturdays in 1960 was formed SK-2W-3L, with the 2W being the branch set (BCK (Maunsell Dia 2401) -  SO (Maunsell Dia 2005)), and the SK loose (and optional: it didn't run on 13 Aug 60, for instance).

 

The 3L sets - could be Mk 1s (including in CLC in 1960) were more usually Bullied 3Ls from either the 59' or 64' groups - were the morning through coaches on Summer Saturdays to Waterloo, and had arrived at Lyme the previous evening as the 7.48pm from Axminster (though I'm still trying to work out how they got to Axminster on Friday.)

 

Five or six coaches required double-headed Radials, and as Saturday was locomotive changeover day (the branch loco was out-stationed at Lyme for a week at a time), Exmouth Junction would despatch the incoming Radial LE from EJ at 7.05 am, arrriving at Axminster at 7.55 am, where it would double head the 8.10 am to Lyme (Adams Superpower for only a BCK-SO 2W pair!) to provide both engines to take the 9.00 am ex-Lyme your Dad observed. The 9.00 am ex-Lyme arrived Axminster at 9.21 am, and the 3L set would be attached to the 8.30 am Exeter Central - Waterloo (arr Axminster 9.24 am, dep 9.34 am).  

 

There were also five through coaches to Lyme in the afternoon off the 10.45 am ex-Waterloo to Axminster and Seaton Junction as @Mallard60022 described above. This train arrived at Axminster at 1.34 pm, departing for Seaton Junction at 1.39 pm, meaning some sharp shunting to get these coaches off the Dn Main before the 11.00 am 'ACE' passed Axminster at 1.50pm, especially as the Up platform was occupied from 1.35 pm to 1.37 pm by the 11.03 am Plymouth North Road - Brighton service. This would depart Axminster at 1.55 pm, arriving Lyme at 2.16 pm.

 

This five set (5H) could be pure Bulleid (BSK (Dia 2123)-SK (Dia 2019)-CK (Dia 2318)-SK (Dia 2019)-BSK (Dia 2123)) or in 1960, a Mk 1 / Bulleid mix (BSK (Mk 1 Dia 181)-SK (Bulleid Dia 2019)-CK (Mk 1 Dia 126)-SK (Bulleid Dia 2019)-BSK (Mk 1 Dia 181)), including the Mk 1s in CLC and the Bulleid SKs in BR(S) Green.

 

This 5H set would then return from Lyme with double-headed Radials as the 3.05 pm to Axminster (arr 3.26 pm), and would be propelled on to the rear of the 12.45 pm ex-Torrington 'ACE' which arrived at Axminster at 3.31pm, departing for Waterloo at 3.39pm; the Radial that had been on the branch all week would then return almost immediately to EJ LE at 3.50pm.

 

Oddly, therefore as the 10.45am ex-Waterloo was not badged as an 'ACE' Lyme Regis through coaches appear only to have been an 'ACE' only in the Up direction in the Summer of 1960!

 

Finally, @phil_sutters, your Dad's photos are from the penultimate Saturday of the Radials double heading on the branch - the 10th of September was the last Saturday of the Summer Timetable in 1960, so I presume that may have played into why he was there on that specific date. 

 

Apologies for the length, but I thought you may find this of interest.

Edited January 18 by Tobbes
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