End To End Electrics (Cab Control) Wiring Setup

[Shanghai Diver]

Hello,

 

Been working through the development of a new layout – the first that is not roundy-roundy, set track and insulfrong with HoG point switching.  Whilst this will not be “perfect" nor prototypical, it is about learning as much as anything (woven in around work, travel, kids, other stuff…) So this will not be the most exciting layout but one that is I hope providing the satisfaction I need at this point.

 

However, after a lot of reading, Brian Lambert (excellent), Peco, SMS, here I am getting a sense of over complication on electrics. I don't have a local shop to go into or anyone in this part of the world who I know to chat to at a club which I think would be the normal approach.

 

I am purely focused on DC. The objective is to use an HM2000 to deliver a twin dial cab control solution (checked it is . A schematic is below, but I have some nagging questions that I have unresolved and would value some feedback (my hunch is the points below are not required for those who have done this multiple times before)

 

First:

• All turnouts are Peco electrofrog (and I am wiring per the instructions)
• They will be powered by DCC Concepts Cobolt IP motors (and I have the relevant accessories). This part of the electrics is therefore easy plug and play
• The double switch and crossover are insulfrog (Code 100, personal decision)
• The schematic is not to scale
• The concept of cab control I get (and really should have applied before) but all examples I find are for tail chasers, not end to end
• I am not adding extra breaks in the track to isolate sections (for now)
• SPDT switches have been tagged with the same letter as the power inputs on the track hopefully for ease of navigation

 

Things I have been trying to resolve:

• I feel that nine SPDT switches is too many – I started with 6 but crept based on all that reading. That and nine point motors…
• I am SURE I have too many power inputs where only a positive or a return, not both is needed - the DCC point motors should be helping more here to reduce the need
• IRJs (pale blue lines): understand the need on facing points, placing on frogs, but where the siding runs to nothing, are they required i.e. into D and E or G and H. Some seem to say “no need”, others say “yes. Is is ‘yes’ if you have power into the track after a turnout such as E vs G and H?

 

What I THINK I need to do:

1. Switch ‘V’ can go: this section will always be controlled by a movement in from power point Z or R / siding C
2. D and E should not need separate power and the IRJs can go: these will always be powered by inputs W or Z (Cattle dock and goods shed, so short ish) so power input S and the return can go
3. Switch ‘U’ can go as any loco will be powered from R, W or Z (there is no reason and not significant length for any practical movement)
4. Switch ‘T’ should be kept: this is a significant siding in itself (and may be the place I break the track to create a further isolated section)
5. A (engine shed) is always powered from R, W or T…but that assumes I do not want to bring an engine out for coal / water. Should I add a switch here (more a question to myself as I type)?
6. Power input / switch Y: not required. It is a bay, straight in off the main line and the IRJ on point 1 into the bay is not needed
7. X is required as this is a significant length into a flour mill and can be shunted independently

 

Alternatively, should I put the droppers in where I have placed them, for the sake of a few holes and lengths of wire “to be on the safe side” and then just leave them blank if not needed?

 

Soldering, cable management, all fine and done plenty of that, but have been left a little stumped with this.  The day job currently feels much simpler!

 

Thank you for any that have got this far…

 

Ben

 

 

[DCB]

There aren't that many parallel moves possible. A  Shunt the loco shed with shunting or arrivals/ departures in the station, B Shunt Flour mill with shunting or arrivals/ departures in the station, C Shunt loco shed and Flour Mill simultaneously. 

or D =A+B+C     I would put a separate feed for the main line around Z  Leave enough room for a loco to shunt but have the main line/ fiddle yard on separate switch so running round trains doesn't  interfere with the mainline/ hidden siding.

Switch V and feed V are not needed

Switch S not needed (See below) 

Switch T is pretty pointless unless you plan on having more than one engine in that siding.

 

Siding A needs a feed and switch or two so an engine can move to the coal stage and back into the shed while other shunting is going on.  Also two sections would be useful so two locos could be in the shed road together, one on shed one coaling

IRJs (pale blue lines): understand the need on facing points, placing on frogs, but where the siding runs to nothing  they are  required  if you have power into the track after a turnout.    Doesn't seem much point  into D or E or G or H with DC Switch S and feed seem pretty pointless Feed W should feed D and E through points 3 and 4 ok if you don't use irj's on D and E likewise X will feed G and H as drawn (Without irj's)

My section switches  are Rotary switches mounted on hardboard on their sides with their spindles pushed through holes in the 2X1" baseboard framing and large knobs on the outside. they can move through 3 positions A Off B and take up almost horizontal surface. 1" may be.   If you stick with around 12 VA 12 volt 1 amp max then you should be fine.  Up it to 4Amps with DCC without 1 amp overload protection then you are into the realm of needing a dropper for every piece of rail.

[Shanghai Diver]

Thanks @DCB David for the virtual coffee / tea / beer. This is hugely appreciated and helps clarify / confirm so much.

 

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There aren't that many parallel moves possible. 

 

-        A  Shunt the loco shed with shunting or arrivals/ departures in the station, 

-        B Shunt Flour mill with shunting or arrivals/ departures in the station

-        C Shunt loco shed and Flour Mill simultaneously

-        or D =A+B+C

No, there aren't, but that will come at some point in the future, I hope. Kids, work and being better at this. And this isn't supposed to be the most exciting layout ever but I enjoy the building.

 

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I would put a separate feed for the main line around Z  Leave enough room for a loco to shunt but have the main line/ fiddle yard on separate switch so running round trains doesn't  interfere with the mainline/ hidden siding.

This is great advice - had not even occurred to me but so obvious now. Also provides some possible thoughts around signalling, which I will have to get my head into properly. Now Z1 and Z2 (could be more I suppose as length and other functions require, but 2 for now)

 

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-        Switch V and feed V are not needed (removed)

-        Switch S not needed (See below) (removed)

-        Switch T is pretty pointless unless you plan on having more than one engine in that siding

 

On T, this will be long enough to have the option to have something shunt out of G/H whilst something may be waiting at the good old cliched coal stathes...

 

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Siding A needs a feed and switch or two so an engine can move to the coal stage and back into the shed while other shunting is going on.  Also two sections would be useful so two locos could be in the shed road together, one on shed one coaling

Yes - makes good logic, now Q (just one for the time being).  And yes, there is a lot of "Rule 1" here, so even with limited space, this could be split further.

 

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IRJs (pale blue lines): understand the need on facing points, placing on frogs, but where the siding runs to nothing: 

-        they are  required  if you have power into the track after a turnout.    

Great, so I'm not going mad and my past electric experience is playing out correctly!

 

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My section switches  are Rotary switches mounted on hardboard on their sides with their spindles pushed through holes in the 2X1" baseboard framing and large knobs on the outside. they can move through 3 positions A Off B and take up almost horizontal surface. 1" may be.   If you stick with around 12 VA 12 volt 1 amp max then you should be fine. 

 

Up it to 4Amps with DCC without 1 amp overload protection then you are into the realm of needing a dropper for every piece of rail.

 

I'm yet to build that piece out - the whole layout has to easy to take down and move (life of a nomad) but had not thought of doing it that was, was going to be a separate unit but I like that idea a lot.

 

Again, thanks for the feedback and advice.

 

Ben

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Shanghai Diver
Usual typos...