The Port Carlisle Branch

[rogerfarnworth]

Our long holiday in 2022 was spent in the far North of Scotland. We stopped off to break the return journey close to Carlisle at a B&B in a hamlet called Boustead Hill adjacent to the Solway Firth. 

 

This gave me an opportunity to find out more about the Port Carlisle Branch which was built on the line of the old canal between Carlisle and Port Carlisle.

 

http://rogerfarnworth.com/2022/05/18/the-port-carlisle-railway-part-1

[pH]

Sorry to pick just one thing out of your well-researched and interesting blog post. However, in the discussion of Port Carlisle Junction, the caption to the photograph contains this: “MR Compound 4-4-0 No. 1032 passing Canal Junction signal box in June 1908 with the 10.30 from Edinburgh Waverley.“

 

A Midland Compound coming off the NBR Waverley Route with a through train from Edinburgh??? I have never heard of through running of MR engines north of Carlisle on NBR (or G&SWR) lines. Was this a regular thing?

[rogerfarnworth]

Hi pH

No problems. This is the caption which came with the photo. However, the train does seem to be coming off the Waverly Route!  I wonder if others might be able to shed a little more light on this?

Best wishes

Roger

[rogerfarnworth]

For around fifty years the passenger rail service to Port Carlisle was provided by a a horse drawn dandy carriages. ....

 

One of these Dandy carriages is preserved in the National Railway Museum in York.

 

The linked article focusses on this horse-drawn service. ....

 

http://rogerfarnworth.com/2022/05/18/the-port-carlisle-railway-part-2

[pH]

One of the links says that the dandy cart at the NRM had previously been at Edinburgh Waverley station. I seem to remember one at Carlisle Citadel, but I can’t find any references or photographs. Am I mistaken?

[The Border Reiver]

7 hours ago, pH said:

One of the links says that the dandy cart at the NRM had previously been at Edinburgh Waverley station. I seem to remember one at Carlisle Citadel, but I can’t find any references or photographs. Am I mistaken?

It's the same Dandy car. Was on Carlisle station for years at the end of platform 5/6 bays

[IWCR]

A relative was shown as Station Master at Port Carlisle on one of the census returns,  I suspect this was a pretty quiet life.

 

Pete

[DOCJACOB]

The coach will be Midland & North British Joint Stock. Same image in NBRSG archives 
 

Still doesn’t explain the locomotive but not a unique occurrence all be it later timeframe. 

[DOCJACOB]

Making a stout effort at being a “gold medal anorak” should point out the horse hauled dandies were noted elsewhere on NBR system. 
 

North Berwick branch having a unique position due to (in order) Steam, Dandy, Steam, Diesel & Electric haulage. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by DOCJACOB
Typo

[pH]

2 hours ago, DOCJACOB said:

Still doesn’t explain the locomotive but not a unique occurrence all be it later timeframe. 

 

Yes, but ... very different circumstances.

 

The photo you posted was taken in 'early 1930s'. In 1933, there were 62 LMS-built compounds at LMS Northern Division sheds; in 1935, there were 69. They were being used on many trains on the WCML to Carlisle, so it wouldn't be surprising for them to turn up on trains diverted over the Waverley Route if there were problems on the WCML, as the caption to that picture describes.

 

The photo in Roger's blog was taken in 1908, when there were no compounds shedded in what became the LMS Northern Division. The engine in the photo is a Midland Railway engine - I know of no through working of Midland Railway engines beyond Carlisle in pre-grouping days.

 

Roger and I have been talking about that photo in PMs. We think this is the explanation for that engine being on that train.

 

The first NBR Atlantics went into service in 1906. Their reception was initially mixed, but eventually they were accepted. A couple of years later, the operating department asked for some more of them. In view of the initial hesitation, before approving the request, the NBR board sponsored comparative tests between an Atlantic and Midland and North Eastern compounds on the Waverley route, and between an Atlantic and an LNWR Experiment Class over Shap. The photo at Port Carlisle Junction was taken in 1908. We think the compound in the photo is taking part in those comparative tests.

 

If anyone has a copy of “The North British Atlantics” by John Thomas, perhaps they could check to see if these trials are mentioned in that book. 

[DOCJACOB]

The golden anorak may have the answer? 
 

To be fair the NBR Atlantic had a troubled birth with arguments at very high levels. 
 

Even Ivatt & Raven were called in? 
 

Screen shot from the relevant book may clarify. 

[pH]

“The Derby engine was No 1032.” - as in the photograph in Roger’s blog. Thank you.

[rogerfarnworth]

After 1914 and the reintroduction of steam power on the branch, there was a short period during the later part of the First World War when the line to Port Carlisle was closed. When it reopened, the hoped for increased passenger traffic never materialised. As the 1920s wore on, the LNER decided that it would replace locomotive power on the branch with steam railcars.

The first was 'Nettle', the second, 'Flower of Yarrow'.

http://rogerfarnworth.com/2022/05/19/the-port-carlisle-railway-part-3

Sadly, their introduction did not significantly improve the financial position and the length of the line from Drumburgh to Port Carlisle was closed in 1932. .....

[The Lurker]

On 21/05/2022 at 21:57, rogerfarnworth said:

For around fifty years the passenger rail service to Port Carlisle was provided by a a horse drawn dandy carriages. ....

 

One of these Dandy carriages is preserved in the National Railway Museum in York.

 

The linked article focusses on this horse-drawn service. ....

 

http://rogerfarnworth.com/2022/05/18/the-port-carlisle-railway-part-2

The Port Carlisle Dandy was featured in one of the books I had as a child - IIRC it was "Rails in the Years of pre-eminence 1905-19" - which if I recall correctly, then I still have that book - it's a bit battered being around 45 years old. 

[Compound2632]

On 22/05/2022 at 22:15, pH said:

“The Derby engine was No 1032.” - as in the photograph in Roger’s blog. Thank you.

 

That's all interesting - a locomotive exchange I'd not come across before.

[DOCJACOB]

On the subject of esoteric locomotive exchange trials the NBR trialled a GWR 2-8-0 and an NER T3 on coal traffic on banks in Glenfarg 

[Compound2632]

I wonder how the GW 2-8-0 was got to Fife?

[DOCJACOB]