Locomotive Classes That Received Any Form of BR Blue In Normal Service

[Wickham Green too]

Must be Robin the 'Hood' diesel !!?!

[Bucoops]

40 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Must be Robin the 'Hood' diesel !!?!

 

*groan* 🤪

[robertcwp]

Subtle contrast in shades of blue here:

E3107 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[50A55B]

Ah, Rail Blue and Electric Blue. 

[andyman7]

23 hours ago, robertcwp said:

D6109 in blue - looks at first sight like a 29 because of the headcode but it was a 21 as it retained its MAN engine:

 

D6109_Jun-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

It looks like a Class 29 because it was prepared as part of the conversion process but due to earlier engine mounting modifications, it was found 'unsuitable' for the Paxman engine and instead had a MAN engine refitted. So it not only has the cab end modifications, but if you look at the bodyside it has the two extra bodyside grilles fitted; essentially a unique hybrid. This as well as many other fascinating D6100 tales are covered in Anthony Sayer's excellent book.

[ianmacc]

5 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Subtle contrast in shades of blue here:

E3107 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

It looks very odd without yellow ends I have to say. Strange that any class was delivered so late without the yellow panels that had been around since 1961. 

[Lemmy282]

The 77's were never in standard rail blue, they were in a form of electric blue, but that varied quite a bit. I've heard stories that the Blue Pullman's Nanking Blue was used on the 77's, no idea if it is true, but they looked very similar.

[MidlandRed]

38 minutes ago, ianmacc said:

It looks very odd without yellow ends I have to say. Strange that any class was delivered so late without the yellow panels that had been around since 1961. 

Notice it also has a red buffer beam (and the electric blue loco doesn’t appear to have a yellow panel either). The first few of both the Doncaster and Vulcan locos were delivered like this (E3101 etc and E3161 etc) - after the first few delivered like this, the buffer beams were rail blue and they had small yellow panels from new. The first ones were retrofitted with the small yellow panels quite quickly.

 

Back to class 77, the attached link shows 27002 on a train of blue and grey coaches - the loco certainly looks more rail blue than electric blue (or Nanking blue) to me - however film reproduction is notoriously unreliable with some colours. There are quite a number of photos of blue class 77s on line. 
 

However given the 76s received rail blue in the same style (red buffer beam, small yellow panel, late BR totem logo) in that era, it would seem odd for the 77s to receive a different type of blue. 
 

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/273885524518
 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by MidlandRed

[Halvarras]

3 hours ago, ianmacc said:

It looks very odd without yellow ends I have to say. Strange that any class was delivered so late without the yellow panels that had been around since 1961. 

 

The reluctance to fit OHLE warning flashes to locomotives which could only run under OHLE is also noteworthy.......and illogical. They had been around a year or so longer than the yellow panels. 

[robertcwp]

10 hours ago, andyman7 said:

It looks like a Class 29 because it was prepared as part of the conversion process but due to earlier engine mounting modifications, it was found 'unsuitable' for the Paxman engine and instead had a MAN engine refitted. So it not only has the cab end modifications, but if you look at the bodyside it has the two extra bodyside grilles fitted; essentially a unique hybrid. This as well as many other fascinating D6100 tales are covered in Anthony Sayer's excellent book.

I know, I have the book, which is very good.

[ianmacc]

8 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

The reluctance to fit OHLE warning flashes to locomotives which could only run under OHLE is also noteworthy.......and illogical. They had been around a year or so longer than the yellow panels. 

I have raised this before on here. The absence of access steps on AC electric locomotives prevents people from scaling the sides thus is higher up the safety hierarchy than warning signs. That was why they weren’t fitted. I agree though for the cost it was surely worth slapping some on anyway. 

[BernardTPM]

But pointless warnings are rather like 'crying wolf', diminishing the effect of ones that do have a purpose.

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, ianmacc said:

I have raised this before on here. The absence of access steps on AC electric locomotives prevents people from scaling the sides thus is higher up the safety hierarchy than warning signs. That was why they weren’t fitted. I agree though for the cost it was surely worth slapping some on anyway. 

 

OK, that makes sense as far as AC electric locomotives are concerned, but why then apply them to diesel classes which didn't have roof access steps either - all diesel hydraulic types for example? How many Class 22s found themselves under the wires at any point in their careers, never mind the D600s Warships which spent most of their short lives never going further east than Plymouth!? Class 33s were more likely to gain access to overhead wired lines on cross-London freights  yet were very late in getting the warning flashes.

2 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

But pointless warnings are rather like 'crying wolf', diminishing the effect of ones that do have a purpose.

I rest my case, M'Lud!!

Edited May 24, 2022 by Halvarras

[MidlandRed]

2 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

But pointless warnings are rather like 'crying wolf', diminishing the effect of ones that do have a purpose.

The AL6/86 have a handrail across the front, under the windscreen so staff are presumably allowed to climb on the front to clean the windscreens - whilst nowhere near as ‘mountainous’ and high from the ground as dealing with, say the same job on a Deltic, is there a chance someone may use a ladder to to this and potentially get into the danger zone?

 

I remember several incidents of rail workers being killed or seriously injured in the late 60s and reported in the local newspapers in the Midlands, but my recollection is these were generally in sidings/yards/depots and involved hauled stock.
 

Also there have been flashovers caused by activities at overbridges resulting in deaths. 
 

Presumably accessing the roof of an AC locomotive was forbidden except in controlled locations in depots, unlike steam locos and some diesels where provision was made for staff to climb all over them (in the case of steam) and via access steps to roof mounted features on some diesels. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by MidlandRed

[Compound2632]

23 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Ok, i worded it badly - they were BR blue for a time when owned by BR :)

 

The key thing is, they were in rail blue with double arrows - likewise the carriages - when we holidayed at Borth several years running in the late 70s. that was much of the appeal of the line - it was British Rail.

[pete_mcfarlane]

11 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Class 33s were more likely to gain access to overhead wired lines on cross-London freights  yet were very late in getting the warning flashes.

I rest my case, M'Lud!!

Or the overhead electrified sidings in Kent. 

[Bittern]

On 24/05/2022 at 07:04, MidlandRed said:

Back to class 77, the attached link shows 27002 on a train of blue and grey coaches - the loco certainly looks more rail blue than electric blue (or Nanking blue) to me - however film reproduction is notoriously unreliable with some colours. There are quite a number of photos of blue class 77s on line. 

The  explanation I read somewhere (probably on the Woodhead SIG subform) was that as they were already classified as non-standard and weren't due for repainting, the official instructions were that they were to remain in either green or electric blue (whichever they were carrying) until withdrawal and just be touched up as necessary for corrosion control, but the depot staff mixed up some electric blue, white, and black, to produce a reasonable approximation of Rail Blue (at least as good as some of the official paint shops, anyway). I suppose that enthusiasm makes up for the black 76s, which had LNER livery for long time.

[MidlandRed]

The 76s were sent to Crewe for overhaul after Gorton closed (and thus appeared in the early rail blue from 1964 or so) - I’m guessing from this that the 77s never got there but were always dealt with at Reddish? Talking of blue stock, the Midland Pullman sets were stabled at Reddish until the service closed and they were transferred to the WR. 
 

I recall in the autumn of 1969 when I visited Reddish, some of the early 76 withdrawals (eg 26005, 35, 42 I think), were boarded up grounded bodies (and IIRC in faded green livery but lacking the E added to the others after 1968). I’m presuming they were broken up on site, eventually. At the same time, two 77s were there, having been moved from store at Bury for the purpose of demoing to the Netherlands Railways people (E27002 and E27004 - blue ones, well at least 27002 was). 

[Halvarras]

I don't think 26005 could have been one of those grounded bodies at Reddish. On my second visit to Crewe Works 27/7/70, the first thing I saw when I got through the gate was E26005 in GSYP livery which I noted as withdrawn.  It wasn't present on my first visit 3/11/69. According to Platform 5's Loco Register 1984 edition it was withdrawn 3/70 and scrapped at Crewe 8/71.

Rarely clapping eyes on Class 76s I was a bit miffed when it disappeared from the following year's Ian Allan combo, but of course that was a situation I was going to have to get used to! (Weren't we all back then? After all I'd seen all 76 Warships....!)

[MidlandRed]

I’ve just been looking at my spotting book from that day - of the four March 70 withdrawals all were there but E26017 (additionally E26000 was neither at Bury or Reddish). There were certainly more than one grounded body (definitely 35 and 42) - I think it possible either E26005 was intact or it was subsequently re-bogied and taken to Crewe. My trip was 28th August 1969. 

And yes you’re right re withdrawals - I recall encountering class 24s from the first 20 (D5000-5019) in Basford Hall ‘stored’ - in reality they were dumped and had been cannibalised - this was 5/2/69 - D5001, 9 and 13 were the ones recorded that day (5001 cabbed!!)

[dibber25]

Depends what you mean by BR Standard blue? Do you mean the Corporate Image Rail blue which began with XP64? There was a Brush Type 2 painted blue long before XP64 ( from memory was it D5578?). (CJL)

[Hal Nail]

8 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Depends what you mean by BR Standard blue?

One hates to be pedantic but as long as standard blue doesnt mean green, the list is unaffected :)

 

[Ian J.]

10 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Depends what you mean by BR Standard blue? Do you mean the Corporate Image Rail blue which began with XP64? There was a Brush Type 2 painted blue long before XP64 ( from memory was it D5578?). (CJL)

 

M'lud, I refer to evidence presented to the court earlier:

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Ian J.

[Wickham Green too]

On 27/05/2022 at 17:54, MidlandRed said:

..... some of the early 76 withdrawals (eg 26005, 35, 42 I think), were boarded up grounded bodies ..... I’m presuming they were broken up on site, eventually. ....

Platform 5 Diesel & Electric LocoRegister ( 1984 ) lists 26017 / 35 / 42 as cut up by J.Cashmore at Reddish Depot in October 1971 ...... and 26005 by B.R. Crewe Works in August. ( The majority were cut by Booths but a few others went at Crewe, Coopers Metals or Frank Berry.)

[dibber25]

Sorry. Never heard it referred to as 'BR Standard blue' before. (CJL)