Pre-nationalization Goods Stock

[RudyProductions]

So I’ve been looking into the history of goods wagons, specifically, open plank wagons, and now I’m wondering, did any of these pre-BR wagons make it into the TOPs CARKND system? And what sort of identification marks would they have? I’ve been able to glean the first and third letters just from Wikipedia, but I can’t find a comprehensive list of what the second letter would be!

 

For example, an unfitted five plank wagon would be an O_O. The first letter indicating it’s an open wagon, the last indicating that it’s unfitted. But that’s about all I’ve found.

 

Thank you for any assistance in advance!

Edited May 22, 2022 by RudyProductions

[Aire Head]

I would consider it very unlikely that some if any pre-nationalisation unfitted wagons survived in revenue earning use long enough to receive a TOPs code. Even fitted wagons do not seem to have stuck around long enough.

 

By the time TOPs was implemented the freight side of Railway business in the UK had undergone a massive amount of shrinkage. Given the volume of "BR standard" wagons produced in the 1950/60s there was probably more than enough of these types available to cover traffic requirements. 

[russ p]

There were some transfered to departmental stock that would have possibly received TOPS codes 

[Sitham Yard]

12 hours ago, RudyProductions said:

So I’ve been looking into the history of goods wagons, specifically, open plank wagons, and now I’m wondering, did any of these pre-BR wagons make it into the TOPs CARKND system? And what sort of identification marks would they have? I’ve been able to glean the first and third letters just from Wikipedia, but I can’t find a comprehensive list of what the second letter would be!

 

For example, an unfitted five plank wagon would be an O_O. The first letter indicating it’s an open wagon, the last indicating that it’s unfitted. But that’s about all I’ve found.

 

Thank you for any assistance in advance!

Have a look at Paul Bartlett Wagons website. Plenty of examples some revenue, some departmental.

Andrew

[Fat Controller]

12 hours ago, Aire Head said:

I would consider it very unlikely that some if any pre-nationalisation unfitted wagons survived in revenue earning use long enough to receive a TOPs code. Even fitted wagons do not seem to have stuck around long enough.

 

By the time TOPs was implemented the freight side of Railway business in the UK had undergone a massive amount of shrinkage. Given the volume of "BR standard" wagons produced in the 1950/60s there was probably more than enough of these types available to cover traffic requirements. 

There were examples of fitted 5-plank (OWV) opens in china clay traffic from Cornwall to Stoke and Scotland until 1982. The Pool contained wagons from all the Big 4, as well as BR-built ones, and almost all carried TOPS branding. Other pre-Nationalisation wagon types where examples survived to carry TOPS Codes included SPV Plate wagons , HTO coal hoppers and MDO 21t minerals.

[Aire Head]

41 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

There were examples of fitted 5-plank (OWV) opens in china clay traffic from Cornwall to Stoke and Scotland until 1982. The Pool contained wagons from all the Big 4, as well as BR-built ones, and almost all carried TOPS branding. Other pre-Nationalisation wagon types where examples survived to carry TOPS Codes included SPV Plate wagons , HTO coal hoppers and MDO 21t minerals.

 

Always happy to learn something 😁

[Fat Controller]

28 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

Always happy to learn something 😁

Likewise. Sadly, I seldom carried a camera; however, I did keep notes when I worked at various rail-connected locations of odd wagons and codings, both TOPS and pre-TOPS. Unfortunately, there was little photographic, or published, information around during the late 1960s/ early 1970s.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Fat Controller

[russ p]

Am I right in thinking that some BDAs were converted from LNER wagons?

[hmrspaul]

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagons

 

TOPS lists in many books. See 

 

Dave Larkin is doing a series of books on the wagons acquired at nationalisation. Published by Crecy. 

https://www.crecy.co.uk/index.php?cPath=57&sort=2a&filter_id=281&osCsid=mtm44lqsn7m304ikm26cd9ipq6 

[Trog]

I believe that there is still an LMS railway built Salmon in Watford Yard, 748029 although it has been an internal user for many years, and its personal siding may have been isolated from the wider railway. Certainly when I was a youngster in the 1980's the Civil Engineers Wagon fleet contained many big four open wooden plank spoil wagons. The Tube/Pipe wagons in particular were quite worrying as the sides bulged when they were loaded with spoil to the extent that they sometimes had to be moved under out of gauge conditions.

[Halvarras]

12 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Unfortunately, there was little photographic, or published, information around during the late 1960s/ early 1970s.

 

That was what was so surprising about the series of five softback books by Mr Larkin, published by Bradford Barton in the 1970s - most of the photos appear to have been taken during the years 1968 - 1972 when relatively few people could be bothered to photograph the motive power! Not a popular modelling period but favoured by me, so these books were essential reading and are regularly referred to even now.

Airfix and Palitoy (Mainline) must have had these books too as many of their early RTR wagons replicated those pictured - the Airfix BR (LMR) vent van B751707 and Mainline ER short brake van E168064 immediately come to mind; there were numerous others. Colin Massingham of MTK must have had his own copies too as some of the running numbers appeared on the large waterslide transfer sheet he released around the mid -1970s - what a godsend that was at the time. There was so much stuff crammed on it that every time I looked at it I found something I hadn't noticed before!

An influential series of books at the time.