Double heading with one fitted with DCC and sound, the other just DCC

[TravisM]

I know that this topic has probably been mentioned more than once but I’m not going to wade through the topic’s, so I apologise in advance.  I’ve got a pair of the new Bachmann Class 20’s, one has DCC and sound, the other is just DC at the moment.  If I get a gold standard decoder, how difficult is it to get the pair speed matched?

 

I’ve found that two loco’s working together and both fitted with sound, they quickly become overwhelming, hence having one with sound and the other, solely DCC only.

[WIMorrison]

Depends on what you mean by a ‘gold standard’ decoder. If they are bothered Zimo decoders then quite easy (if you know Zimo),  other decoders will have different challenges

[jpendle]

As Iain's spell checker tried to say, if they are both Zimo then it can be done relatively easily. 😀

 

The first think to do is read CV8 and find out what's been fitted to each loco.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[WIMorrison]

John

 

I see your spool chucker is just as good as mine 😂

 

I think that the OP is planning to replace whatever is in there today with 2 x ‘gold standard’ decoders? That is, at least, how I read the post.

[JST]

Unless he means Lenz Gold decoders. 

 

Since I have got a Z21 I have discovered a fun way of double heading which is to have two throttles open on the iPad and drive both locos tab the same time. Doing this with sound fitted locos means the chuff rate is not the same - sounds better! 😀

[TravisM]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

John

 

I see your spool chucker is just as good as mine 😂

 

I think that the OP is planning to replace whatever is in there today with 2 x ‘gold standard’ decoders? That is, at least, how I read the post.

I wanted to keep the factory fitted decoder in the sound fitted Class 20’s, and then find a suitable decoder, such as Zimo to fit into the other Class 20.  
 

I don’t know which decoder’s Bachmann use on their sound fitted loco’s, especially the Class 20’s.

[Nigelcliffe]

42 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

I wanted to keep the factory fitted decoder in the sound fitted Class 20’s, and then find a suitable decoder, such as Zimo to fit into the other Class 20.  
 

I don’t know which decoder’s Bachmann use on their sound fitted loco’s, especially the Class 20’s.

 

Read CV8, and the value tells you the decoder manufacturer.    Its likely to be Zimo or ESU.   Both makers have non-sound decoders which can easily be matched to a sound decoder, with delays before moving, etc.. 

 

 

- Nigel

 

[40034_Nick]

This will always be a nightmare to do IMO. as the startup and pull off timings will be different putting strain on both locos and over time knackering them.

I have all my double headed locos as sound and the same provider (Legoman). Apart from that it sounds hellfire !!!!!!

I actually have every single loco apart from a couple of 08s all sound chipped with ESU v4 or v5.. (About 85 diesels in total)

[Nigelcliffe]

51 minutes ago, 40034_Nick said:

This will always be a nightmare to do IMO. as the startup and pull off timings will be different putting strain on both locos and over time knackering them.

 

As discussed further up the thread, various non-sound decoders allow for pull-off timings to be set to match the sound decoder.   

 

The pulling strains are best dealt with by reducing (reduce, not remove!) the BEMF influence, which will mean the locos don't try to compensate as much for the varying drawbar loads.     This would apply to two "identical" models with the same decoders as much as with different models or different decoders.    Various maker's decoder manuals detail the approach to this, explaining how to set the BEMF influence to appropriate levels so locos don't fight or place strains on each other.   
 

-  Nigel

[Steven B]

Assuming the decoders are from the same make then setting the acceleration and braking rates and speed curves to match, along with BEMF settings (assuming identical models) then you won't be far off.

 

I've never seen models knackering themselves because of miss-matched settings. Is it really anything to worry about?

 

Steven B.

[40034_Nick]

I always find the first pull off after start up takes longer to get moving, but once stopped and pulled off again its normally quicker from there onwards.. so there's a mismatch straight away Charlie (DC kits ) might be able to confirm. 

 

[RAF96]

Most sound decoders have a lag between throttle application and loco moving, this for steam blow down or brake release.

Some but not all non-sound decoders can be set for a start up lag so enabling a synchrinised move off to be orchestrated.

[Erixtar1992]

If its a new tooled factory sound 20 it will have a Zimo decoder.

 

if its an old tool factory sound itl be ESU.

 

i dont use Zimo myself but with ESU if you fit a Lokpilot 5 for the non sound loco then you can set a start off delay which works well.

 

all you do is keep tweaking it and then put both locos on the track either on the same address or consisted but a couple feet apart to test until you are happy.  Same with active breaking & accel/decel rates ect

[40034_Nick]

I just love sound in every loco.. Hellfire if you offset them a couple of percent. not to mention the fact of running alone, with other locos or top and tail..