What locomotives and rolling stock should be produced first?

[johnlambert]

Given Peco's buildings have a distinct GWR flavour it feels like some GWR/BR Western Region stock would be a good shout.  A Pannier and 0-6-0 tender engine, Dean or Collett goods, feel like they make sense as they have inside cylinders (OK, not all Panniers did) so less tricky engineering to do with cylinders and valve gear.  Longer term, a large Prarie and maybe even a Hall would be nice.

 

Other nice and useful powered items would be a GWR "razor edge" railcar and a BR 121 or 122 DMU.

 

For passenger stock, a B-set would be perfect for the (G)WR setting while 57' suburban Mk1 coaches would go with Heljan's 31 although some 64' underframe suburban coaches would be better for a Western Region layout (although they were only on the Western for a short time).  Non-passenger coaching stock is nice and versatile as it travelled far and wide, so maybe a Mk1 BG (using the 57' underframe) or a Siphon.

 

Goods vehicles, I'm not sure about specifics but a couple of vans, open wagons and maybe a Class A and B tank wagon plus Toad and BR standard brake vans.

[newbryford]

5 hours ago, andythenorth said:

I would like a froth tanker.  In 4 axle and bogie versions. 🙂

 

I though bogie versions usually had 4 axles?

[newbryford]

Has anyone suggested a Blue Pullman and APT-E yet?

[andythenorth]

19 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

I though bogie versions usually had 4 axles?

 

You win today's prize, it's in yesterday's post already. 🙂

[rodshaw]

The North American outline market is there for the taking for anyone willing to give it a go. There are no locos being produced at all at present, and the rolling stock offerings are meagre.

[britishcolumbian]

2 minutes ago, rodshaw said:

The North American outline market is there for the taking for anyone willing to give it a go. There are no locos being produced at all at present, and the rolling stock offerings are meagre.

 

The SW1200s from MTB are discontinued, yeah, so there are no RTR locomotives at the moment, but one is in the works. And there is a decent array of rolling stock... RTR there are some boxcars, open hoppers, and modern-ish tank cars - plus six varieties of PS-1 boxcar are coming in the autumn sometime, and a further thereafter. And there are the super short-run things, but a lot of that is pricey: I paid 100 euro each for a CP Rail insulated boxcar and two Pacific Fruit Express refrigerated cars. And a decent array of kits, too. I've been doing TT for the better part of 20 years now, and the NorAm scene is light years ahead of where it was when I started.

[Nearholmer]

The word “should” in the title suggests to me that the OP is seeking thoughts about what should be made, because it would sell, and help to expand the scale, so ……..

 

Locos: BR Standards steamers, starting with the 4MT tank, and the biggest classes of diesels, starting with the 08, followed swiftly by the 47.

 

DMU: Class 101, and 121/122.

 

Coaches: Mk1 corridor stock; Mk1 suburbans.

 

Goods: BR standard brake van, 16T mineral, ex-LNER design steel merchandise wagon,  BR 12T van, etc ….. basically copy most of the Hornby Dublo plastic-bodied range. Maybe an MGR hopper

 

Why? Geographical spread, and timespan across a wide “nostalgia belt”, the train spotting years of a high percentage of potential buyers.

 

If market research suggests a potentially younger buying community, drop the steamers and go for a Class 150.

[F-UnitMad]

2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

 

You'll need some v-tippers and a big hammer to distress the track.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I'll just hand lay it, a head start at being rubbish.

Hand laying is the way to go to get rough track, but it takes a lot of time to get it so it still works reliably - just using a hammer is no good!

This is some of my track on my (unfinished) American O layout....

 

And it's quite reliable...

 

Good luck doing it in TT120. 😉

Edited June 16, 2022 by F-UnitMad

[Flying Pig]

Flying Scotsman and Mallard with LNER carriages, for all those European collectors who can now have a famous British train in a scale that matches their railway.  Maybe also a Castle with Centenary stock, like Airfix did in 00, and an early Royal Scot with carriages in fully lined livery, for those who missed out on the Rivarossi models. And a Southern train too: the Brighton Belle, say.

 

Would contribute little to establishing the scale as a practical choice for modellers of the British scene at any period, but would certainly sell.

[Flying Pig]

8 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Hand laying is the way to go to get rough track, but it takes a lot of time to get it so it still works reliably - just using a hammer is no good!

 

I am both surprised and disappointed 😉

Edited June 16, 2022 by Flying Pig

[britishcolumbian]

28 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

Flying Scotsman and Mallard with LNER carriages, for all those European collectors who can now have a famous British train in a scale that matches their railway.  Maybe also a Castle with Centenary stock, like Airfix did in 00, and an early Royal Scot with carriages in fully lined livery, for those who missed out on the Rivarossi models. And a Southern train too: the Brighton Belle, say.

 

Would contribute little to establishing the scale as a practical choice for modellers of the British scene at any period, but would certainly sell.

 

I had a thought along similar lines... if someone made a set of the 1939 Royal train with a CPR Royal Hudson at the head and the matching carriages it'd certainly sell very well to all the collectors, whilst doing absolutely nothing to actually further NorAm TT scale... 😄

 

[Ravenser]

I'm a little puzzled by the enthusiasm for Mk1 suburbans, except as Triang nostagia

 

In reality they came late (1954) and by 1970 they were restricted to KX suburban services. They don't really sell very well in OO

 

What is needed is Mk1 corridor coaches , in brake and full flavours, with first and second class accommodation

 

I would go for BCK + SK/TSO (which are the same bodyshell. That's entirely credible as a portion off the ACE or a Paddington holiday relief onto a seaside branch And BCK alone gives a minimum branch option. You can also run them very happily with an A4 or A3

 

But if Hornby were to be involved (not at all certain, given their shaky finances) you might get BSK + CK

 

Rapido floated the idea of a 3mm Mk1 , so they might bite.

 

Beyond that , Worsley Works offer a wide range of Mk1 etched sides in 3mm, with a declared readiness to reduce stuff to TT-120 (their nomeclature on their site) . Once you have a Mk1 donor vehicle, the world's your oyster with a range of Mk1 etched sides. That range includes 63'6" Mk1 non-gangwayed sides

 

Given that the SReg did use 63'6" non-gangwayed stock on some branchlines, including ones in the South West, that would be an option for the TT-120 Minories. A compromise, but a modest one, and a degree of compromise may be needed in the early years of the scale.

 

Mk1 suburbans do not suit the GE , and I'd imagine late 50s/1960s East Anglia and Lincolnshire would be popular subjects with a class 31. Heljan have chosen some locos based in Sheffield . Skegness holiday trains and anglers excursions from Sheffield into lincolnshire would suit corridor Mk1s, not non-gangway

 

Birmingham -Norwich was a long-standing 31 stamping ground. Mk1 yes, but not suburbans 

[Ravenser]

Now for freight stock.

 

A BR standard/LNER brake van (Toad E). Goes well with a 31

 

An open and a van , on 17'6 RCH steel underframe. 

 

I suggest an ex LMS 5 plank open and for balance an ex LNER van . Possibly the wartime type that was also owned by the LMS. 

 

A 16T mineral is surely coming, as Peco have announced the 7plk wooden PO. Someone will do the 12T BR ventilated van.

 

Beyond that, wagon kits are needed, surely from Parkside. GW open, Mink (on 17'6 steel underframe) and Toad  brake. SR van. Maybe an LMS van (starts to sound very like the old Ratio range!), and LMS brake. If the OHV steel high isn't done RTR then it will be a Parkside kit. A fruit van, and a fish van. A 12T Pipe

 

That's 10 kits, a credible near-term kit range. All regions covered, and a period from mid 30s to late 80s

[mdvle]

3 hours ago, rodshaw said:

The North American outline market is there for the taking for anyone willing to give it a go. There are no locos being produced at all at present, and the rolling stock offerings are meagre.

 

TT in North America would be a very tough sell.

 

 

[britishcolumbian]

41 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

TT in North America would be a very tough sell.

 

 

It's hard because very little is available, but interest is there - everyone reacts very positively to seeing it, since 1:120 is just about halfway between 1:87 and 1:160. I've been involved with a modular club here in Vancouver for over a decade now and though NorAm TT still has a very long way to go yet, it is also far ahead of where it was when we started. And every time we set up for the public there are choruses of "I love the size, I'd go for it if only there was stuff available"... it *could* work, if someone would take the plunge like Peco and Heljan and Gaugemaster are doing with British outline now.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

7 hours ago, rodshaw said:

The North American outline market is there for the taking for anyone willing to give it a go. There are no locos being produced at all at present, and the rolling stock offerings are meagre.

I must admit I’d not appreciated how little there is in US outline, having seen your own layout Naples Street here on RMweb.  Makes it even more impressive, Keith.

[Hal Nail]

Given the interest this seems to have generated, I think the 31 will sell and Heljan will make money.

 

If i were them i wouldnt actually be rushing to do complementary stuff but another teaser in a different area (eg a steam loco) which will attract a similar level of early excitement.

 

I wouldnt be the slightest bit surprised if at that point, people mostly go back to their existing OO or N stuff, the new 31 sits on a shelf and it all fizzles out.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Hal Nail

[britishcolumbian]

1 minute ago, Hal Nail said:

If i were them i wouldnt actually be rushing to do complementary stuff but another teaser in a different area (eg a steam loco) which will attract a similar level of early excitement.

 

That'd be IMO a certain way to fail. If you make a locomotive, you need to have stuff to run it with... otherwise you'll turn everyone off and that's that. Supplying complementary stuff within a reasonable timeframe will be fairly essential to success.

[Hal Nail]

11 minutes ago, britishcolumbian said:

Supplying complementary stuff within a reasonable timeframe will be fairly essential to success.

 

Essential to sustained success yes, but I'm not sure manufacturers actually look at it like that.

 

They have a certain amount of development capital and make what will give them the best return. Hence we have had HST power cars and not enough coaches.

 

The early things will sell anyway as it's novel - so pretty much a shot to nothing for Heljan. It will take a long time for there to be anything like a full range of stuff even if they hit it hard tho and i think people will end up just drifting back to what they had before. We will see.

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Hal Nail
spelling

[F-UnitMad]

4 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

The early things will sell anyway as it's novel - so pretty much a shot to nothing for Heljan.

Didn't work out like that when they first proposed a Class 37, in HO Scale. That never happened at all. Edit - the situation with British models now is rather different to back then, admitedly. I don't think - and didn't mean to imply - that the proposed 31 will fail to appear like the HO 37.

Edited June 17, 2022 by F-UnitMad
Clarification.

[Nearholmer]

6 hours ago, Ravenser said:

I'm a little puzzled by the enthusiasm for Mk1 suburbans, except as Triang nostagia

Minories; the Kings Cross suburban vibe.

 

It’s such a yawning opportunity with a 31.

 

But, I tend to agree that a basic selection of corridor stock, maybe starting with a BSK, TSO and a CK, would have wider application, so would best be done first.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Keith Addenbrooke]

19 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Minories; the Kings Cross suburban vibe.

 

It’s such a yawning opportunity with a 31.

 

But, I tend to agree that a basic selection of corridor stock, maybe starting with a BSK, TSO and a CK, would have wider application, so would best be done first.

 

 

I do hope someone builds a Minories as a TT:120 homage to CJF’s original plan (which was in 3mm TT).  The thought had crossed my mind too that the 31 would be ideal for an Eastern Region London suburban terminus version of Minories.

 

It will take time for TT:120 to get established, so I’m basing my own expectations more on my memories of reading about and then getting started in early N Gauge - that sense of starting something new is (for me) the first part of the attraction, more than the expectation of a wide range of choices.  If a Class 31 is the first locomotive, then a good start will be a layout that needs a 31 (or, similarly, will there be something to go with Peco’s GW buildings?).

 

I’ve ordered a Continental (Auhagen) TT station kit to get started in 1:120.  I enjoy making building kits and will be able to compare it with the HO plastic kits I have (both in terms of the building experience and the size).  A common scale for UK / European modelling is a second big attraction for me of TT:120, along with the space saving over OO or HO, which is the third.  Keith.

[andythenorth]

Well.  

• 16t minerals.
• Vans.
• A standard open.

These are the logical choices, as suggested by many.

The obvious places to start for any new scale, if you will.

Many a happy generic branchline will be built.

 

But then again, how about gambling on quirkier?

• LMS / BR tube, in grey, bauxite and satlink liveries (1930s-1980s)
• A bogie bolster D, on plate bogies, but designed so that Y25 bogies could be swapped in for a BDA.  1950s-present
• 21t mineral 

Now we have the rudiments of a steel industry train. 

 

This gives us  shunting planks for a steel mill, a finishing plant, a steel distribution terminal, or a scrap yard.

Or a simple mainline oval with sidings for different traffic.

Or a small yard.

 

 A 31 for power.  And one of the Piko shunters, they have 3 types, in multiple colours:

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Diesel+Locomotive/Diesel+Locomotive/Piko-47303/gb/modell_215689.html

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Diesel+Locomotive/Diesel+Locomotive/Piko-47523/gb/modell_367075.html

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Diesel+Locomotive/Diesel+Locomotive/Piko-47503/gb/modell_311064.html

 

Now we have a place to also run an 08 or Austerity, which Heljan have teased as possibilities.

 

And for anyone post 1970, we have a place we can fit

• VTG sliding hood steel coil wagons that Dapol already offer in OO / N
• Cargowaggon sliding wall van and flat, which ran in metals industry traffic, as Heljan offer in OO
• 2 axle European ferry vans  which ran in metals industry traffic
• 2 axle European ferry flats with stakes and dropsides which ran in metals industry traffic

All of which might also sell in European markets.

 

The above being a serious set of suggestions, whilst accepting we'll probably get a 16t mineral and 478 permutations of 'small failing country branchline'. 🙂

 

And less seriously, someone could do a generic torpedo wagon.  But better than Lima's HO version 😜

 

And then finally, because I haven't requested one for at least 2 days, an HTV hopper.

 

[britishcolumbian]

2 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I must admit I’d not appreciated how little there is in US outline, having seen your own layout Naples Street here on RMweb.  Makes it even more impressive, Keith.

I started a lengthy reply to this but a browser crash made me lose it... so here's instead a pic of a few things available now/recently - all RTR, the hopper is a regular production run from Zeuke of the Netherlands, quite nice and reasonably priced at 50 euro each... the PFE reefer and CP Rail insulated are from Lok-n-Roll of Leipzig, very limited run (only one of each car number is made), also quite nice, but somewhat pricey, these were 120 euro each (and I got two of the PFE cars...)... I'm happy with them. And: a new boxcar type is to appear in several liveries in the autumn. So things are progressing well, considering that a decade ago we had nothing in NorAm aside from the ancient stuff from the 50s and 60s and a few rather crude resin kits, now we have RTR stock, had a batch of RTR locomotives, and more in the works...

 

[Derek 19B]

How about a Merchant Navy in original condition with three green mk1’s. Perhaps say No 28 Clan Line . I’d by one bring back a lot of memory’s.

I Have Clan Line in OO in original condition but it would be nice to have small one sat on the shelf.

What else did I have back then?

Britannia, 3ft shunting tank as my railway man uncle called them never a Jinty that was the 1f, a diesel shutter (08)

and the DMU that Trang did. Also a spare 3ft body ,so could have two .

 

derek