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What locomotives and rolling stock should be produced first?


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How about a Merchant Navy in original condition with three green mk1’s. Perhaps say No 28 Clan Line . I’d by one bring back a lot of memory’s.

I Have Clan Line in OO in original condition but it would be nice to have small one sat on the shelf.

What else did I have back then?

Britannia, 3ft shunting tank as my railway man uncle called them never a Jinty that was the 1f, a diesel shutter (08)

and the DMU that Trang did. Also a spare 3ft body ,so could have two .

 

derek

 

 

 

 

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I'm shocked that no one has suggested that clearly the most sensible loco and rolling stock to produce to popularise the scale would be Thomas, Annie and Clarabel.

cough.

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3 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

I'm shocked that no one has suggested that clearly the most sensible loco and rolling stock to produce to popularise the scale would be Thomas, Annie and Clarabel.

cough.


A fair point, but I think Bachmann now hold the licensing rights, and with their active investment in 009 in addition to all the Graham Farish N Gauge (and Liliput H0e), Bachmann don’t get seem to be getting mentioned as often as others.  You’d also need Setrack.  It could happen of course, but maybe not for a while?  Just a thought, Keith.

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I think to kick the scale off, starter sets would be the way to go, like I bought in Z scale. A loco, okay, a 31 in this case, with half a dozen wagons to suit, an oval of track, loop and sidings. Controller included. The Marklin starter sets in Z are awesome, and even have electrically operated points and double slip. Look them up

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I'd crib pretty heavily from Dapol's O gauge range. The market the manufacturers seem to be aiming at is people who want something true scale, so I think a good starting point would be stuff that's less glamorous. I would also edge towards small prototypes, suitable for micro and compact layouts, because I think that's how a lot of people would start out when experimenting in the scale.

 

So, if I were starting such a range, my first four locos would be basic tank engines representing each of the Big Four.

- GWR 57xx

- LMS Jinty

- LNER J50

- LBSC Terrier

 

I might also give consideration to one of those Sentinel shunters that could be produced in LNER, LMS, GWR, BR, WD and private owner liveries.

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13 hours ago, rodshaw said:

The North American outline market is there for the taking for anyone willing to give it a go. There are no locos being produced at all at present, and the rolling stock offerings are meagre.

The S100 could be a good "dip-your-toe-in-the-water" choice. Used all over Europe, so you have sales there to fall back on, and several were sold into industrial use in the US.

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15 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

 

Arnold did a Köf in 1:120...

There's a lot more room inside the body of a Kof than inside the body of a small MW

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2 hours ago, HonestTom said:

I'd crib pretty heavily from Dapol's O gauge range. The market the manufacturers seem to be aiming at is people who want something true scale, so I think a good starting point would be stuff that's less glamorous. I would also edge towards small prototypes, suitable for micro and compact layouts, because I think that's how a lot of people would start out when experimenting in the scale.

 

So, if I were starting such a range, my first four locos would be basic tank engines representing each of the Big Four.

- GWR 57xx

- LMS Jinty

- LNER J50

- LBSC Terrier

 

 

 

Do those locos actually fit into a strategy of "something true scale"?

 

I'm guessing the GWR Pannier does and I can't comment on your LNER choice but I would query the LMS Jinty. Weren't they primarily shunters?

 

It's the Terrier that doesn't fit. Yes, great for Colonel Stephens lines, and examples did turn up on other parts of the Southern, but the reason the Brighton was selling them off to the likes of Stephens was that they had been supplanted by larger engines across most of the network well before the Grouping.

 

What would someone contemplating a small foray into Southern or BR(S) based layouts model? That's a tricky one. There are the other half of the West Country branchlines of course, Seaton instead of Ashburton. At the other end of the network there is Hawkhurst as a popular example for a BLT or for the more adventurous, Allhallows. Terriers would not be useful on any of them. Some might be tempted to do a London suburban terminus post electrification but before the demise of steam. Iain Rice did a nice layout plan of a terminus based on Caterham. That would require a suitable EMU set plus an ex-SECR C class for the goods. The C class would find a home on most other Southern BLTs as well though in the absence of a third rail it would need to be partnered by something like an M7 on a push-pull set.

 

Away from BLTs there are some excellent examples of BR(S) and Southern small layouts in 3mm scale built by the sadly missed Peter Bossom. Peter may no longer be with us but I believe his small exhibition layouts have found new homes

 

Edited by whart57
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24 minutes ago, whart57 said:

Away from BLTs there are some excellent examples of BR(S) and Southern small layouts in 3mm scale built by the sadly missed Peter Bossom. Peter may no longer be with us but I believe his small exhibition layouts have found new homes

 

 

Wrong group mate, he's over there...

 

Screenshot_20220617-132136-499.png.efdeddb00dc19a6c6f6f1a7ff5027b05.png

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1 hour ago, whart57 said:

The C class would find a home on most other Southern BLTs as well though in the absence of a third rail it would need to be partnered by something like an M7 on a push-pull set.

 

I'd have to disagree on the C, I don't think they made into the west country, although if they did I'd have the excuse?  The M7 would be the perfect choice, especially with the Pull-Push set(s) Gate, Ironclad, Maunsell etc.  Although Idk if they were common on the eastern section though, but then again I can't think of an all sections tank loco other than the M7? 

 

 

Edited by Tim Dubya
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1 hour ago, whart57 said:

 

Do those locos actually fit into a strategy of "something true scale"?

 

I'm guessing the GWR Pannier does and I can't comment on your LNER choice but I would query the LMS Jinty. Weren't they primarily shunters?

Jinties also worked branch lines, goods trains and even commuter trains now and again. As I say, I'm thinking primarily in terms of what would be useful for compact and micro layouts. Basically, I'm thinking of engines you don't need much of an excuse to own, regardless of the size of your layout.

1 hour ago, whart57 said:

 

It's the Terrier that doesn't fit. Yes, great for Colonel Stephens lines, and examples did turn up on other parts of the Southern, but the reason the Brighton was selling them off to the likes of Stephens was that they had been supplanted by larger engines across most of the network well before the Grouping.

This is true, but I'm having a hard time thinking of an equivalent to the others that would have the same kind of appeal and usefulness as the other three in the same size range. Maybe the E1? Terriers are a popular class of locomotive with a lot of potential livery choices, and I think the fact that there have been four RTR versions in three scales backs that up. They can be used on a wide range of duties quite authentically, and if you're building a micro-layout, you're probably thinking more in terms of a branch line, shunting yard or light railway than something main line. But you could find an excuse to use one on a larger layout if you really wanted to.

Edited by HonestTom
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I suppose in terms of legwork, the manufactures have done the research for all existing models of the modern age (CAD), so hopefully any decisions to cut metal will be shortened.  I appreciate it's not as simple as shrink a cad file down but this has got to help?

Personally I'd like to see the following:

 

M7, O2, G6, Mickey Mouse, Black Motor, T9,  Standard Tanks 4MT/3MT

 

Mk1, Bullied, Maunsell and Ironclad Coaches (and the pull-push variants eventually).

 

SR, wagons and vans (8 plank / 12t etc), CCT, PMV, BY

 

Parkside (and others) kits in TT:120

 

Cheers

 

 

PS: Is code 55 available in bullhead?

 


 

Edited by Tim Dubya
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Jinties. worked suburban passenger trains on the ex-North London Railway through the 1920s, 30s, and I think 40s, hauling four-wheeled coaches. Even though the NLR was past it’s peak by then, and some routes electrified, it was still a pretty intense steam-hauled operation.

 

They also came onto LT and SR territory with coal trains from Brent to the various ex-MR coal depots in south london. 

Edited by Nearholmer
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Small steam locos for the SR and BR(S) are a nightmare, because they tended to stay put in the territory of their original pre-grouping owners. I’d forget them until much later, if the scales takes off, and make an Ivatt 2-6-2T instead, because they worked on BR(S) and a lot of other places, although all the valve gear questions arise.

 

I’d be resigned to the SR and BR(S) being served last, steam, diesel, and electric, unless it emerges that potential buyers of southern things have tons more spare cash than anyone else.

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41 minutes ago, HonestTom said:

Terriers are a popular class of locomotive with a lot of potential livery choices, and I think the fact that there have been four RTR versions in three scales backs that up. They can be used on a wide range of duties quite authentically

 

They are popular, I'll grant you that. The Horsham club had a "Terrier Night" earlier this month to celebrate 150 years of the Stroudley Terrier (no, don't take the hump north of the Border, we do know about the earlier Highland Railway version but hey, we are deep in London and Brighton country)

 

1467310855_TerrierCollection.jpg.5e93291c8c832cfb190f1e08a674b5bd.jpg

 

More than four RTR versions in three scales plus one kit built version in another scale.

 

But popular doesn't mean useful. They were useful to Colonel Stephens but the SECR didn't really get much use out of the one they bought to use on the Sheppey Light Railway. They were replaced on their South London stamping ground because larger engines were needed to handle the growing traffic so spent a lot of their life as works shunters and empty stock trains. Not the stuff of model railway layouts.

 

The most useful Southern tank engine was probably the M7 but given it's an 0-4-4T probably not the easiest for manufacturers. Next would probably be the SECR H, again an 0-4-4T, and then things like the G6. I would really say that for the Southern an 0-6-0 tender engine should be a starting point. The C would be my choice. OK, it didn't get west of Salisbury but nor did the LSWR 0-6-0s get east of Croydon. There isn't an easy choice.

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14 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I’d be resigned to the SR and BR(S) being served last, steam, diesel, and electric, unless it emerges that potential buyers of southern things have tons more spare cash than anyone else.

 

The route into BR(S) might well be via EMUs

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48 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

I’d be resigned to the SR and BR(S) being served last, steam, diesel, and electric, unless it emerges that potential buyers of southern things have tons more spare cash than anyone else.

 

I do have a surplus of OO / 4mm that I need to sort through for sale.  Not that I particularly want to, I just don't have the space since I've moved.  But I've a limit on how much I can afford to pay for TT:120 locos and I would say around £100 mark for a tank loco and around £200 for a tender loco 700/T9 sort of thing.   

 

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5 hours ago, HonestTom said:

The market the manufacturers seem to be aiming at is people who want something true scale, so I think a good starting point would be stuff that's less glamorous. I would also edge towards small prototypes, suitable for micro and compact layouts, because I think that's how a lot of people would start out when experimenting in the scale.

 

It's a difficult choice.

 

There is a lot of sense to what you say, but on the other hand one of the additional attractions of going TT:120 for people in OO (or even O) will be the ability to fit more into their existing space.  So focusing on stuff for micro/mini layouts could end up hurting the long term chances of success.

 

5 hours ago, HonestTom said:

So, if I were starting such a range, my first four locos would be basic tank engines representing each of the Big Four.

- GWR 57xx

- LMS Jinty

- LNER J50

- LBSC Terrier

 

The problem with attempting to appeal to everyone is you end up satisfying none.

 

Having a single loco for each of the Big Four does a modeler no good if suitable rolling stock/buildings/etc are unavailable.

 

So as much as it may make some people (hopefully short term) unhappy better off focusing on a single railway an offer at least 2 different locos plus the rolling stock required for a complete layout - which in this case because Peco has already led the way likely means going GWR.

 

But my personal guess is that the steam stuff will follow more slowly.  Given that we are effectively 60 years from the end of steam, the flexibility of BR era diesel (locos and DMUs) means to me the best option for the first several years will be BR diesels and rolling stock.

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Just now, mdvle said:

But my personal guess is that the steam stuff will follow more slowly.  Given that we are effectively 60 years from the end of steam, the flexibility of BR era diesel (locos and DMUs) means to me the best option for the first several years will be BR diesels and rolling stock.


Yes, I think that the “nostalgia window” has moved on, although preserved lines do

inspire people to model someone else’s formative years, and non-steam prototypes seem better-suited than many steamers to what is a very small scale, easier to get right in both appearance and function.

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5 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said:

I do have a surplus of OO / 4mm that I need to sort through for sale.  Not that I particularly want to, I just don't have the space since I've moved.  But I've a limit on how much I can afford to pay for TT:120 locos and I would say around £100 mark for a tank loco and around £200 for a tender loco 700/T9 sort of thing.  

 

With Heljan's Class 31 coming in at £200, and with it being a small market without the volume of sales of OO, I don't think we will see anything at the £100 range.

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