Building Moorbach - a first project in TT:120

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Welcome to Moorbach.  Needless to say, of necessity this is more of a placeholder post at the moment, but I'm impressed with the starts already being made developing ideas and initial builds in readiness for UK TT:120, so I hope it's a good time to begin my own thread too.  I explained my interest in the new scale here, so what am I hoping to achieve? 

 

I've had a life-long interest in GW Branch Lines, and my reaction when I first saw the Peco TT:120 Station Kit in the launch publicity was: "Perfect!"  Having now seen some close-up photos of the Signal Box, I must say I'm impressed with the level of detail, and while the Goods Shed looks quite like the standard Ratio OO model to me, I think it complements the Station Building really well, so I've pre-ordered all three.  I enjoy making building kits, so am happy to start a module / diorama with them.  I've not made laser-cut kits before, but I have a couple of American HO kits I picked up second hand in my stash I can try first for practice.

 

Although my experiences with H0m and H0e give me confidence that the physical size of the new scale will work for me, I think it'll be a good idea to get my 'scale eye' in too, and I've also ordered an Auhagen TT Station Kit (13321 Bahnhof Moorbach) which the 009 Society Members' Shop was selling.  It's a plastic kit, which I'm more familiar with, so I'll just need to get used to the smaller doors and windows (etc).   I hadn't expected to be tempted back to UK modelling after switching to Continental / Overseas Narrow Gauge, but the potential of TT:120 is exciting.  I do also have some Narrow Gauge projects on the go, so I'm not going to get bored, but I'm looking forwards to an adventure in TT:120.  Starting with these building kits, I hope I'll get as far as a GW(-ish) layout.  We'll see.  Keith.  

[britishcolumbian]

I'll follow this with interest! And it makes me consider starting one of my own... which I might do once I've received my first 1:120 16t min from Shapeways.

[Allegheny1600]

Congratulations Keith!

I have to say, I’m sorely tempted by the Peco Kits, they look really good to me. I’m going to go begging to my good lady to see if I can spend some money! They look well worth a punt.

Cheers, 
John

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

22 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Congratulations Keith!

I have to say, I’m sorely tempted by the Peco Kits, they look really good to me. I’m going to go begging to my good lady to see if I can spend some money! They look well worth a punt.

Cheers, 
John

 

Thanks John, fortunately I have some funds in the bank following a recent stock sale (as in rolling stock 🙂).  Keith.

[rodshaw]

Good luck with the new layout. Any chance of a track plan? Come on, hurry up! 😛

[F-UnitMad]

9 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

 

I have to say, I’m sorely tempted by the Peco Kits, they look really good to me. ...... They look well worth a punt.

Cheers, 
John

 

"la-la-la I'm not listening.... la-la-la...." 🙉🙈🙊

 

Committed to O Scale but sorely tempted to dabble as well..!! 🤔🤫😁

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Bahnhof Moorbach is the first Auhagen Kit I’ve bought.  Auhagen seem to be one of the major players when it comes to European outline TT:120 building kits, so I can see some of the more generic ones appearing on some UK outline layouts too.  I thought it might therefore be useful to post an initial picture to show what comes in the box. 

 

Code Number 13321, it retails at €39,90 from the Auhagen Shop and is part of their TT range (not the hybrid 1:100 H0/TT).  I’ve actually bought mine second hand (unopened) from the 009 Society Members’ Shop, but I’ve seen Auhagen on sale online in the UK.   The quoted dimensions are 356mm x 120mm x 100mm, and the building superstructure parts come pre-formed.  Although there is some flashing to cut away from the bigger sections, it will be useful for holding the components as I usually paint them before assembly:

 

 

The small packet is some fauna for the window boxes, and the card insert is something I’ve seen with other European models to cut out light-bleed.  I’ll post a couple of other photos on the comparison thread to give a better indication of size.

 

I won’t be able to make an immediate start on the build, due to other commitments coming up, but I must say I’m looking forward to this - first impressions of the size of the components (not too small) and the quality of the kit are very impressive, Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

A first look at TT:120 (Continental) rolling stock.  I’ve acquired a couple of Tillig DB coaches for Moorbach.  The level of easily visible detail possible at this size looks good to me.  Needless to say, I’m very impressed:

 

 

 

The Touropa Couchette is a full 86’ or 26.4m long (220mm).  The Speisewagen (Restaurant Car) is shorter at 196mm (77’2” or 23.5m).  I’m not an expert, but I think this is correct (ie: it’s not a shortened car as with some HO Scale models).

 

Couplings are a particular area of interest.  The Touropa has the more traditional Tillig / Berliner TT-Bahnen style fitted, while the Speisewagen has the more modern type that Peco show in their photo of the proposed 7-plank wagon:

 

 

 

When I have some more rolling stock I can decide which standard to adopt - both coaches have NEM pockets.  I can’t really comment further until I try them, but visually at least they seem preferable to me to either OO Tension Lock couplers or traditional Arnold-Style N-Scale couplers.

 

Both coaches have sprung couplings for close coupling on straights while also being able to go round tighter curves, which I’ve also seen on other European models, as Table Top layouts are perhaps still more popular on the Continent.

 

There are also loads of extra details that can be added to the coaches too that come separately.  A bit smaller than I’m used to with H0e / H0m but worth a try at some point.  I’ll also post some Comparison photos on that thread too.  You’ll see I’ve also dug out my old Engineering Ruler with inches marked off in 10ths (and 50ths), useful in this scale too. Keith.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[britishcolumbian]

I find that the old style is much more forgiving of uneven track, but the new type is fantastic for how closely the coaches are coupled. You just have to make sure that A, your track is reasonably smooth, and B, the couplers are all properly aligned in height (on the bar, you'll see what I mean when you take a look).

[Vanguard 5374]

Interesting to see both styles of coupling compared, I’m still torn over what I want to use for my stock as I’m leaning toward Peco 009/H0e couplings for ease and availability. 
 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

3 hours ago, Vanguard 5374 said:

Interesting to see both styles of coupling compared, I’m still torn over what I want to use for my stock as I’m leaning toward Peco 009/H0e couplings for ease and availability. 
 

 

 

I must admit, I’d had the same thought - especially as I like to keep a small supply to hand for my H0e / HOn30 modelling, (although I also know that many experienced Narrow Gauge modellers tend to swap them out for other alternatives).  

 

I’ve had the chance to see what the close couplings look like in action today, as a trio of wagons have arrived, which all have them fitted.  There are two container wagons, which come with lots of detailing parts to add.  (Track is Peco H0m Code 75):

 

 

 

I’m afraid I don’t know anything about inter-modal freight traffic, but the larger containers look to be 40’ ones:

 

 

 

Will I be brave and weather them (which would improve them enormously)?  And a shot of the wagon - I don’t know how similar it is to UK ones, but I can’t read the fine DB print at normal viewing distance, so they may well one day be seen behind a Class 31:

 

 

The third wagon is in a Swiss livery:

 

 

How come I didn’t notice the polystyrene stuck to the roof when I posed the photo?  Others will know how similar this is (or isn’t) to ones we see on UK rails.  I believe the Swiss loading gauge is smaller than the German one, which may be relevant.

 

Going back to the couplings, as best as I can show it this is what they look like close up:

 

 

 

They have a sprung mechanism to draw them apart round tight curves.  Plastic buffers seem to be standard, but as rolling stock couples closer together, buffers are less visible than I was used to in the past with OO.

 

The close couplers are more discreet than the Peco Narrow Gauge ones, which are designed for use with 4mm Scale NG models - these are a pair of 009 Dundas Models Coach kits based on small Ffestiniog Prototypes that I’ve built for my freelance Narrow Gauge line:

 

 

I think the Tillig couplers are neater.

 

Also in todays delivery were a couple of TT Scale vehicles:

 

 

I’ll also post this photo in the Motor Vehicles thread with details, and in the Comparison thread with some more pictures.  We have a busy few days ahead, so that’s all for now.  Hope everyone has a good weekend, Keith.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[F-UnitMad]

18 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I’m afraid I don’t know anything about inter-modal freight traffic, but the larger containers look to be 40’ ones:

They look to be 40ft boxes - obviously they should be twice the length of the shorter, 20ft box. 😉

45ft boxes (common these days) still have the ISO lifting pockets at 40ft spacing, as well as right on the corners.

UK wagons are of the open frame 'skeletal' type, but with boxes in place who's to know?

 

Couplings are an interesting issue. I'm not keen on the 'hook & loop' type, but the close couplers aren't so great for shunting, as I understand it? If & when I get chance to dabble, I'd possibly go for Microscale buckeyes. 

[JohnR]

1 minute ago, F-UnitMad said:

UK wagons are of the open frame 'skeletal' type, but with boxes in place who's to know?

 

 

Was going to ask what the scope was for these being used in a GB context. Ideal for running behind that proposed 66?

[Keith Addenbrooke]

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

Was going to ask what the scope was for these being used in a GB context. Ideal for running behind that proposed 66?

Hi John, a very good point - and one to ask of everything I’m buying.  As we’re playing a long game here, the questions I ask are:

 

1.  Do I like the look of an item (and can I afford it)?  
As it’s too soon to be planning a specific layout, I’m looking around more generally at what’s available - so what catches my eye?

 

2.  Will this help me understand / get started / get used to TT:120 as a modelling scale before UK outline r-t-r gets going.

As that’s my initial objective I think my Continental-themed ‘Moorbach’ starter project is better placed here in the TT:120 Forum rather than the Continental / Overseas Forum.  I’ve also signed up to the specialist American-based ‘TTnut’ web Forum for a wider view.

3.  Can I stretch reality far enough to include it on a future UK layout, at least until more suitable items perhaps become available?

As my other modelling is in Narrow Gauge where freelancing is more often the norm, it’s something I’m quite comfortable with for myself.

 

All this also means I’m not too dependent on timeframes / further announcements of UK TT:120 to get going.  Having sold a collection of Swiss Bemo H0m I’d been building up a couple of months ago due to a squeeze on space, I was in the unusual position of having some funds available when Peco made their announcement.  I also like Continental (and US) modelling too.

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

The newer couplings can be operated above with a "magnet on a stick" like the one Tillig make (07920). Less than €5; magnet one end, magnetised screwdriver blade on other. I've never tried the older type—which Piko still use—but the close couplers are far superior to the 009 style. The hook/loop couplers, whether 009 or HO, are very unreliable. Sometimes the stock won't couple; some can be hard to uncouple. And most modern ones have non-magnetic loops.

 

The only issue is where stock is coupled very closely together. This may mean you have no access from above; usually affects only passenger stock. But even then you can still uncouple them from below using, e.g., the screwdriver blade …

[britishcolumbian]

12 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Couplings are an interesting issue. I'm not keen on the 'hook & loop' type, but the close couplers aren't so great for shunting, as I understand it? If & when I get chance to dabble, I'd possibly go for Microscale buckeyes. 

Yeah the close couplings aren't ideal for shunting. I haven't decided what I'll do with my Hungarian equipment (perhaps separate locomotives for goods and pax, and have close on pax equipment and Microtrains on goods, but on my NorAm stuff I have Microtrains as they're almost correct scale for TT and good for shunting. For British equipment I'll probably take the same approach as with Hungarian. 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Nearly everything I’ve bought over the past couple of years has been second hand - I’ve picked up some excellent stock from good retailers at very fair prices (I’ve not used eBay).  But H0e / H0m and TT:120 aren’t common in the UK, so I’ve been investing funds quickly to build up small starter collections to decide if projects are viable.  I’ve had some hits and some misses, and I’m not recommending my approach - it just explains why I have more items arriving for Moorbach, starting with locomotives.

 

I’ll leave it to others to decide if these look more like N or H0 (the H0m track doesn’t help, sorry):

 

 

These are both Tillig DBAG Passenger Express Br 101 Overhead Electrics (Bo-Bo).  101 111-3 (red) needs running in as it’s a bit older and doesn’t seem to have been used for a while.  101 200-3 (green advertising) ran like a dream along a yard of Flextrack.

 

Advertising on locomotives is something I know the Swiss RhB do too (and probably others).  This particular green livery isn’t prototypical, and was a special edition for Tillig (I think in 2005 ?).  It meant the model was cheaper, and as I think the livery has been well done I can run an advertising locomotive without worrying about dates / region - or having trains pulled by an Aspirin.

 

Another vote in favour of the close couplings too:

 

 

I’ll post a couple of Comparison shots in that thread next.  There are a couple more packets to arrive, and then I’m spent up for now.  So I can come back to Rod’s question:

 

On 21/06/2022 at 16:40, rodshaw said:

Good luck with the new layout. Any chance of a track plan? Come on, hurry up! 😛

 

OK.  I realise it’s not too serious, but it’s a fair question.  We don’t have track geometry to plan with yet, but I don’t think it will be very different to H0m.  I was looking at H0m at the start of the year, but one reason I didn’t proceed was I no longer had space for any future expansion I’d want to do.  That doesn’t apply with TT:120, as my longer-term hope is for a UK GW(-ish) Branch Line.  Moorbach is therefore most likely to be a very simple test track with a continuous run (which I prefer anyway).  Trains are likely to be quite short - for reference the table below is 1m long, and the track standard uncut 914mm / 1yd pieces:

 

 

Having studied track plans for many years, particularly in American Kalmbach books, I’ve actually found I most enjoy simply watching trains go by these days.  I also discovered last year that I didn’t much enjoy track laying, so do keep expectations low.

 

Another example of the close couplings to finish:

 

 

Have a good week, Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

When buying second hand, it’s often interesting to see how things come packaged for safe travel.  This was in yesterday’s box of TT:

 

The light hasn’t been very good this morning for photos of rolling stock, but hopefully it’ll be better later.  Until then…Keith.

 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Better light at lunchtime has given me the chance to take some photos of the rest of the rolling stock I’ve bought for getting started in TT:120.  A couple of Tillig FINA 4-wheel tank wagons complete an initial short mixed goods train:

 

 

The style of the walkways takes advantage of the larger European loading gauge, but if the handrails on top were removed I wonder if they might look a bit more like some British equivalents?  

 

A shot of the underside shows how the close couplers are sprung loaded and designed to push out around tight curves.  It’ll be interesting to see if these appear on any UK outline models (I’ve also seen it in H0e, again for navigating narrow gauge curves):

 

 

To get a feel for comparative size relative to H0 or OO, the five car train with locomotive fits on a yard of (H0m) track:

 

 

I think the 4-wheel tankers are earlier than the Swiss PanGas wagon heading up the train, but I wanted to buy some 4-wheelers as well as bogie vehicles so I can try a range of different TT styles as part of this test layout.

 

A couple more passenger cars complete my initial rolling stock acquisitions.  I bought them second hand from a very good UK retailer, though they were originally made by TT-Modell in Russia (my ethics advisor said this would be OK as they’re pre-owned):

 

 

They remind me of Graham Farish N-Gauge coaches from some years ago: flush glazing seems to be achieved by painting the body sides onto a clear surface, as opposed to the Tillig coaches which look to have separate glazing and profiled window frames (note: I’ve not removed any roofs to double check).  If this is how they’re boxed for retail, packaging certainly seems quite a bit simpler.

 

I’ve seen them on sale in the EU through Miniaturmodelle in Latvia, who seem to stock the full range, though I’ve not tried buying from there.  As with the first coaches I bought, one has the newer style of close couplings, and one the older ‘loop’ style.

 

 

 

A close up of the two cars I now have with loop style couplings:

 

 

They all have NEM coupler pockets, so I’ll be able to swap some around to couple up the whole train (or I can try and source some Tillig spares).  The four coaches fit on a yard of track (the red dining car is shorter than the standard 86’):

 

 

This isn’t a realistic consist, although I think the red Speisewagen did run with the blue Touropa couchette coaches, and the orange Swiss 1st class car might perhaps have been seen as a through coach next to the DB second (I think)?  

 

Second hand Berliner TT-Bahnen coaches can be found on sale in the UK, but are older - and some look to me to be ‘shorty’ coaches, as has been seen with some H0.  They tend to be of East German prototypes (production of the BTTB brand ended in 1993).

 

Standard recommended minimum radius for Continental TT:120 appears to be 310mm (compared to Bemo H0m, where 330mm is suggested).  I expect the central overhang on these longer passenger cars and bogie wagons will look worse on tight curves than the equivalent for wider H0m rolling stock of similar length, but the separation needed between cars on the outside of the curve should appear to be less (for the same reason - the bodies are narrower).

 

European Passenger trains don’t always have the kind of Brake vans / Guard’s compartments we’re used to in the UK, so although my passenger cars (especially) are a mixed bag at the moment,  the little collection I’ve put together in just a couple of weeks is enough for me to be ready when track becomes available.  I just have a couple more building kits on the way, then that’s it for now, Keith. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Moxy]

25 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Better light at lunchtime has given me the chance to take some photos of the rest of the rolling stock I’ve bought for getting started in TT:120.  A couple of Tillig FINA 4-wheel tank wagons complete an initial short mixed goods train:

 

 

The style of the walkways takes advantage of the larger European loading gauge, but if the handrails on top were removed I wonder if they might look a bit more like some British equivalents?  

 

A shot of the underside shows how the close couplers are sprung loaded and designed to push out around tight curves.  It’ll be interesting to see if these appear on any UK outline models (I’ve also seen it in H0e, again for navigating narrow gauge curves):

 

 

To get a feel for comparative size relative to H0 or OO, the five car train with locomotive fits on a yard of (H0m) track:

 

 

I think the 4-wheel tankers are earlier than the Swiss PanGas wagon heading up the train, but I wanted to buy some 4-wheelers as well as bogie vehicles so I can try a range of different TT styles as part of this test layout.

 

 

 

Those 4 wheel tankers are not too far away from some of the prviate owner tanks on Paul Bartlett's site.

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/privateownerchemicaltank

[D9020 Nimbus]

Tillig NEM close-couplers can be purchased from dealers in Germany; you ought to be able to order them from Golden Valley Hobbies (UK Tillig importer). The part number is 08840 (for a pack of 8; you can also get a pack of 56). Cost is a little less than £1 per coupling.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Chance this afternoon to take some comparison photos of the three different types of couplers discussed:

 

Left to right - Tillig Close Couplers; Tillig old-style loop couplers; standard H0e couplers (on H0e coaches):

 

 

The same combinations front to back - Tillig Close Couplers; Tillig old-style loop couplers; standard H0e couplers (on H0e coaches):

Although the Tillig Close Couplers look rather huge on the Peco drawing of their proposed 7-plank wagon (which was the first time I’d come across them), the photos give quite a different impression.  I’ve obviously not tried using them on a layout yet, so should reserve judgement on their operability, but I can see why they’ve been chosen.  Have a good weekend, Keith.

[britishcolumbian]

3 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

judgement on their operability

 

Speaking from experience: they're sensitive to uneven track and uneven mounting. They're easy to adjust on the pin, they slide up and down, but that's an important step to take to make sure all the couplers are at the same height - if you do that, they'll be much less sensitive to uneven track. If your track is perfect, the coupler height matters a bit less.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

With the welcome news yesterday that the Peco TT:120 range is now appearing in model shops, it hopefully won’t be too long before we start seeing pictures of the building kits here on RMweb.  I want to get some practice in TT:120 first, and the final two pieces of my initial Moorbach jigsaw have arrived, again courtesy of the 009 Society Members’ Shop:

 

Both kits were still in factory sealed boxes, so for £5 a piece seemed too good to miss.  The Erfurt signal box is prototype based, while the loading dock is suitably generic.  They’re plastic kits rather than laser cut, but should still help me acclimatise to the size,

Keith.

[JohnR]

Apologies if you've mentioned this before, Keith, but are you looking to anglicise the signal box kit? Or is it more a "throw-away" kit that you wont use on an actual layout?