Rixteth (formerly Ribbglas) - Starting in 0-16.5

[Dmudriver]

Hi.

 

I've been modelling in 7mm standard gauge for years now but have always had an urge to try 0-16.5.  This urge has been re-awakened by seeing the Lionheart Lynton & Barnstaple models due out soon!!  They do look rather good!!  I've got plenty of 00 gauge track left from many years ago and I'm thinking of getting some Peco Great Little Trains kits to try out first.

 

I've downloaded the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association's Introduction to 7mm NG modelling and a bit of their Getting Started in 7mm NG leaflet.  I've also looked at various websites supplying kits, etc.

 

What I am really confused about, however, is what looks like a multitude (tho' that word's probably an exaggeration!!) of couplings.  Is there anywhere I can look at to see what the choices are and what the merits/demerits of each are?  I've had a look at some of the topics in this forum but can't find anything relevant to what I'm looking for.

 

In my standard gauge modelling I have in the past used screw- and 3-link couplings but I've moved off those onto Dinghams now.  However, the latter don't like sharp curves so I don't think they'd be suitable for 0-16.5.  I would prefer automatic coupling/uncoupling though.

 

Any suggestions or thoughts will be really appreciated and welcome.  With thanks in advance.

 

 

Rod

 

PS   Am I in the right forum for 0-16.5?

 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Dmudriver
To add PS.

[Jeff Smith]

The Peco O-16.5 kits are easy to fit with Kadee HO Whisker knuckle couplings.  They come in a choice of 3 heights and three lengths.  They are centre- buffing so no problems assuming you are not going to fit side buffers.  You can either use under track magnets for uncoupling or the hand-of-god skewer.  The standard height is the standard HO/On30 height so you can mix with certain suitable Bachmann On30 stock such as side-tippers etc.  They work very well and look appropriate.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Dmudriver said:

However, the latter don't like sharp curves so I don't think they'd be suitable for 0-16.5.  I would prefer automatic coupling/uncoupling though.

 

The Lionheart models are designed to work on the Peco O16.5 points as a minimum radius according to Richard Webster at the launch last year. 
I’m not sure whether the chopper couplings they are doing will have a ‘tail’ ,or will be way to add one to, to allow auto uncoupling but people have got scale choppers to work. Dave Taylor (Bridport Town layout) uses narrow tension lock couplings because of theirs similarities to chopper couplings. 

 

I’ve used kadee couplings in O16.5 and Om and find them reliable and easy to install. 

I was hoping with the Lionheart models to be able to use the scale choppers but there’s no new info on them since the paint samples were shown earlier in the year. 

[PaulRhB]

There are also the Zamzoodle couplings  that can be made to work automatically but they’ve been out of stock for a while now. Details are down the page if you scroll below the different couplers. 

 

https://www.lightrailwaystores.co.uk/collections/zamzoodled

 

[Halvarras]

14 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

The Lionheart models are designed to work on the Peco O16.5 points as a minimum radius according to Richard Webster at the launch last year. 
I’m not sure whether the chopper couplings they are doing will have a ‘tail’ ,or will be way to add one to, to allow auto uncoupling but people have got scale choppers to work. Dave Taylor (Bridport Town layout) uses narrow tension lock couplings because of theirs similarities to chopper couplings. 

This looks like the original small Airfix coupling, with its centre-mounted hook? I've seen these used as choppers for 0-16.5 over the years but they are not so easy to find these days.....

 

PS on reflection this looks chunkier than the Airfix coupling - Fleischmann?

Edited August 4, 2022 by Halvarras
Added the PS

[Jeff Smith]

Before settling on Kadees I tried the etched chopper couplings from Branchlines but found them difficult to assemble, not very good at auto-coupling, and did not allow the 18" radius curves I was using.

My O-16.5 thread below is unfortunately still missing some pictures but does show the GVT Baldwin with Kadees.

[Dmudriver]

Thanks for the replies to my post about couplings.  Having seen the pic of the loco on Bridport Town, I wondered if the couplings were these:

 

 

They look as though they are fixed so I'm not sure how they'd cope with tight curves.  However, as they're 00 couplings, they should cope with reasonably tight curves - I'm thinking of no more that 30" radius which is not unusual in 00, is it?  It's that long since I modelled in 4 mm, I can't remember!!  They do look a bit like chopper couplings from what I know.

 

I do rather like Kadees (I've used them in 0) but will wait until I get some models and set out some trackwork.  As I said, I've plenty of 16.5mmm track - Peco, Farish and Scaleway - the latter is rather fine and has a different rail size than the other 2 so they're not easy to use together.  I've more than enough to get some track set up once my Great Little Trains kits arrive - and get built!  I'll play with those for a bit and see what I think I need.

 

I've ordered "Getting Started in 7mm NG" together with the Society's small layouts book and we'll see where we go from there.  I might even start a layout thread eventually!!

 

 

Rod

 

 

[Dmudriver]

5 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

My O-16.5 thread below is unfortunately still missing some pictures but does show the GVT Baldwin with Kadees.

 

That is useful, thanks.  They do look the part and I may well go down that route - but I'll get the models first and then decide.

[PaulRhB]

26 minutes ago, Dmudriver said:

They look as though they are fixed so I'm not sure how they'd cope with tight curves.

Dave uses something else but it’s an older type, you’d need to ask on his thread. 

The ones you picture have a thin plastic spring built into the NEM pocket moulding that allows it to swing. But it relies on the wedge fitting into a corresponding void on the wagon so you’d need to mount them with something similar to use that spring. 
 

[PaulRhB]

enjoy it 😉

[HSB]

2 hours ago, Dmudriver said:

Thanks for the replies to my post about couplings.  Having seen the pic of the loco on Bridport Town, I wondered if the couplings were these:

 

 

They look as though they are fixed so I'm not sure how they'd cope with tight curves.  However, as they're 00 couplings, they should cope with reasonably tight curves - I'm thinking of no more that 30" radius which is not unusual in 00, is it?  It's that long since I modelled in 4 mm, I can't remember!!  They do look a bit like chopper couplings from what I know.

 

I do rather like Kadees (I've used them in 0) but will wait until I get some models and set out some trackwork.  As I said, I've plenty of 16.5mmm track - Peco, Farish and Scaleway - the latter is rather fine and has a different rail size than the other 2 so they're not easy to use together.  I've more than enough to get some track set up once my Great Little Trains kits arrive - and get built!  I'll play with those for a bit and see what I think I need.

 

I've ordered "Getting Started in 7mm NG" together with the Society's small layouts book and we'll see where we go from there.  I might even start a layout thread eventually!!

 

 

Rod

 

 

David Taylor actually uses Continental H0 couplings (not tension-lock). 

[DLT]

The favoured coupling  for my stock is the Fleischmann  6520  or the  6521 depending on whether a hole or lug fitting is required.  Fleischmann do an  enormous variety  of couplings and fitting for them.

 

I I was starting again I would go for the Zamzoodled design, https://www.lightrailwaystores.co.uk/search?q=zamzoodled&type=product as mentioned earlier.

 

As you say in your first post, there are a multitude of types out there, and unfortunately no "standard" type.

 

Not sure is this helps, but best of luck!

Dave.T

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by DLT

[Jeff Smith]

As with all scales, couplings are often choices between awkward to use scale types and non-scale but effective types.

 

I chose Kadees for a layout (I no longer have) which mixed Bachmann On30 stock with Peco O-16.5 kits.  I used under track magnets but very quickly found that the steel wheels and axles supplied in the Peco kits were attracted to the magnets causing stock to roll around or hesitate.  The Bachmann stock all has non-magnetic wheels and axles!  Anyway I found a source of suitable non-magnetic wheels (Hornby wagon wheels) and fitted them on to brass axles.  On my current GVT layout under construction I am still deciding whether to install magnets or snip off the trip pins for better appearance and just use a skewer.....

[Dmudriver]

I've been thinking about couplings, looking at videos of 0-16.5mm layouts and generally trying to get a feel for narrow gauge.  After years of blue diesels terminal operations in 0 gauge (loco-hauled and multiple unit operation), it's a fair bit to get my head round - hence why I've changed the title of the thread!!

 

I'm leaning towards Kadee couplings and when I look, there are so many different types!!  Am I right in assuming I'd use the H0 size and whether to use long, medium or short depends on the vehicle length and minimum curvature?  Then there's over-, under- and centre-set which I assume depends on the height above the railhead of the underside of the floor of the vehicle?

 

I've also been looking at the 00 track and pointwork I've got.  Trackwise I've got plenty of code 100 and of code 75.  Pointwise, however, I may be struggling: I've only 1x code 100 point, the rest are all code 75.  Will 0-16.5 stock run on code 75 rail?  Or does that depend on what wheels you use?  Obviously, I can test them when the kits I've bought are delivered but I just want a feel for the kind of thing I need to be thinking about.

 

Thanks for the help so far: any more will be much appreciated.

 

 

Rod

[Mike Bellamy]

If you are going to use Kadees, then invest in a height gauge so that you can be sure that every vehicle will have compatible couplings. At one time everyone used the number 5 which is medium length and centre-set - the equivalent in the new design is the 148. there are also Kadees that fit NEM pockets if you are using ready-to-run chassis conversions. There is a lot of information on the EDM Models website - see link below.

 

https://ngtrains.com/shop/brand/kadee/?filter_scale=ho-scale

 

Almost all modern wheels will run on code 75 - quite often they are just the same wheels as found on OO or HO stock. Peco O/16.5 track is code 100 and they have points available. EDM Models (again) have MicroEngineering 16.5mm track in code 83 and code 70 as well as well as 14mm track (O.14) for those who want to model a scale 2ft line.

 

https://ngtrains.com/shop/product-category/track/track-track/

.

 

[Jeff Smith]

The Whisker couplers come in packs of four with plastic gearboxes (mounting boxes).  These can be mounted on the Peco plastic kits using polystyrene cement - the lid (facing down) is clipped in to hold the coupler in and is removable.  On white metal kits the gearbox can be glued on or fixed using a centre screw (screws and tap available from Kadee).

 

As mentioned above the most common type is the medium centerset.  These are metal, the Bachmann (US) equivalent is plastic apart from the trip pin and jaw-spring.  These are interchangeable but in my opinion the Kadee is better but both couple together ok.  Even with the Peco kits the gearbox mounting faces are slightly different heights and distances in from the ends so I think I have had to use most of the nine variants!

 

O-16.5 basically uses OO/HO wheel and track.  The wheels that come with the Peco kits are nice and fine but magnetic and can drop into frog gaps.  Standard OO spoked wagon wheels are chunkyer but can hardly be seen anyway.  The Peco white metal kits have to be assembled with wheels in place and therefore cannot be removed.  The plastic ones can be changed - carefully!  Kadee make some nice non-magnetic wheels for On30 which are the right size but only available as discs not spoked.

 

 

[Dmudriver]

Thanks for the comments and advice.  Things are moving on, but not really enough to start a thread yet.

 

I've got my 2x Peco 4-wheel coach kits and the van kit.  The van is built but I'm not doing any more until the Kadee whisker no.148 medium centreset couplings arrive with the height gauge and I work out how to fit them.  I've got the Peco tram loco white metal body but no chassis yet and I'm not sure where we're up to with the latter.  Will chase soon.

 

I've bought 2x 7mm Narrow Gauge Association Handbooks - "Getting Started" and "Small Layouts" - and have just today joined the Association.  For the moment I think a small terminus on an 8' x 1' board will suffice.  I may do a through station later.  

 

The "story" for the layout will be that the West Lancashire Railway (Preston to Southport) was never built but the local landowners and farmers wanted to be able to get their agricultural produce from the West Lancashire Plain to their markets quickly.  A decision was made to build a narrow gauge railway from the bank of the River Douglas near Hesketh Bank to wind across the plain to Ormskirk.  The thinking being that the River Douglas was too expensive to bridge but goods could be sailed from there direct or to Preston Docks and town up the River Ribble.  In the other direction Ormskirk was chosen as it was on a direct line from Liverpool and Preston so goods could move quickly in either direction.   I did think of calling it "The West Lancashire Light Railway" until I realised there is a real WLLR in existence now!!  A name will be decided on eventually!!

 

The station I'm thinking of building will be the terminus near the River Douglas, but not a quay: there will be a branch off-scene to the quay for goods from the Plain to the Preston area.  The terminus will be the loading point for produce from the local area destined for Liverpool or Manchester/East Lancashire areas, via Ormskirk.

 

So that's it so far.  I'm still at the planning stage and need to sort out trackwork - my 00 code 75 3-way points, double slip and large radius point are not really suitable for a light railway and will need to be disposed of.

 

More soon.

 

 

Rod

 

PS  In the meantime, I'm still managing to operate my 7mm "West Kirby Town" blue diesel layout!!

Edited August 11, 2022 by Dmudriver
To add PS.

[Jeff Smith]

Chassis kits for both the coach and van are available from Peco allowing you to build free-lance bodies from styrene.

[Dmudriver]

Hi.

 

I'm making some progress - with the stock rather than the layout, but I've plans for the boards: I just need to get the timber and build them.

 

As regards the stock, though, my enthusiasm is running away with me a bit!!  As I said, I've built the Peco van and the Kadee couplings have now arrived and I realised I'd made more work for myself!  I wasn't sure how to fit the Kadees and thought the draft box went behind the buffer beam.  But the buffer beams on the van are thicker than those on the coaches so I realised that wasn't right.  This is what I've done:

 

 

In this cruel, enlarged pic the holes don't look too tidy, but the couplings do sit neatly and horizontally in them:

 

 

 

Sorry the last one's a bit out of focus!!  Making the slots in the built van was a bit difficult but I did it - and I took the wheels out first!  My question is: have I done them correctly?  This way, it seems to me, the couplings are all the same distance from the bodywork.  How do you fasten them to the body? - as any pressure on them would want to pull them out of the slot.  I'm thinking a screw through the hole up into the body: that's not too permanent if ever I need to remove them.

 

I've almost completed one coach: I'd forgotten how small some parts can be!!  I've only lost one so far and have managed to bodge up a replacement: once painted, it won't be obvious (I hope!!)

 

I've now got the chassis kit for the loco but I'll finish the coaches before I start on that - oh, and build the baseboards - I'm planning on 8'x1' - 2 boards 4'x1' end to end.

 

More soon.

 

 

Rod

 

PS.  The pics were meant to be vertical but the system has put them on their sides and I can't straighten them!

[Jeff Smith]

I can't remember how I did the van (I'm away from home right now).  Use the Peco coupling mount or a stack of styrene between the top of the gearbox and the underside of the floor.  Either use a Kadee tap and screw or a self tapping screw through the gearbox centre hole.

[DLT]

Have you joined the Narrow Gauge Modelling Forum here:  https://ngrm-online.com/  Its members only, but joining is a quick formality.

Lots of advice there (not that I'm suggesting there isn't here!!!) and quite a few of us are on both.

 

Cheers, Dave

[Dmudriver]

5 hours ago, DLT said:

Have you joined the Narrow Gauge Modelling Forum here:  https://ngrm-online.com/  Its members only, but joining is a quick formality.

Lots of advice there (not that I'm suggesting there isn't here!!!) and quite a few of us are on both.

 

Cheers, Dave

 

Yes, I have now, Dave.  Thanks for the pointer.

 

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

I'm making some progress:  I've fitted the Kadees to the van and the coach and was feeling quite pleased with myself as they coupled together well.  And then the height gauge arrived in the post!!  These are the results!!

 

 

 

I pondered about making the height they're at the standard for any future stock, until I realised any uncouplers probably wouldn't work.  So I'll get some of the overcentre couplings (I think that's the right word? - the ones that drop the coupling down a bit) but I'll still need to lower the slots in the buffer beams.  I hope to get the second coach right first time!

 

All part of the learning process!!  I've used Kadees before but only in the middle of 2 rakes of 7mmm standard gauge coaches that don't get uncoupled: as long as they are all the same height there's no problem.  Hence why the above happened.

 

But 2 questions arise: 1) how do you uncouple Kadees without using a magnet in the track?  I've tried using a small bladed screwdriver and a cocktail stick but neither have been successful: I believe there's a way but I don't know it.

2) can you use smaller, individual magnets to uncouple?  The Kadee ones look, to my mind, a bit unsightly.  I'm thinking a small one just inside each rail to pull the coupling tails outwards.

 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.  TIA.

 

 

Rod

[Jeff Smith]

I think for the coaches I just widened the lower slot.  This allowed me to stick the gearbox to the (buffer) beam so that the bottom was still removable for coupling change.  I don't have the gauge but set my original using a Bachmann On30 vehicle and then set all the others to match.  If you are going to magnetically use the trip pins, they need to be just clear of the rails in a turnout.

 

I bought the Kadee uncoupling stick, it is still tricky and the vehicles have to move apart.  On my On30 layout I set the magnets immediately under the track, and learnt the hard way not to put them anywhere near a curve as both trip pins go the same way rather than separating!

[ngtrains.com]

Changing to an overset couplet such as #142, #145 or #149 will drop the knuckle to closer to the correct height and reduce the amount you need to file out of the slot in the vehicle end to get the height right

You need something a bit bigger than a cocktail stick to uncouple them. Something like a BBQ skewer.

I have some moulded ones i was given by Grandt line many years ago and they have two small ears on them that open the knuckles as you turn it. I'll try and find one tomorrow and take a picture