West London Line Traffic

[Glorious NSE]

There was certainly a lot of industry along that riverside, even when I moved near there in the early 70's...

North side was the Fulham power station - coal came upriver for that as I remember, but potentially could have coal trains. There is an old gas works, originally the 'Imperial' towngas plant I believe ( There are some pretty little terrace houses around 'Imperial Square' , once gas company's, then council, but now at SW6 prices... I digress ! ). On the Southside of the river was Booth's Gin Works, and Price's Candle factory and 'Wandgas' Gas works ( Apparently the ground was so toxic, when they redeveloped the site it would eat through the worker's boots in days !) - I don't remember any private sidings, but modellers' licence and all that !

 

IIRC The power station on the north side of the river when I lived in the area was called Lots Road, which generated power for LT (District & Piccadilly line amongst others) - don't recall seeing barges in the 90s so it may have been running on gas by then??

[steviesparx]

IIRC The power station on the north side of the river when I lived in the area was called Lots Road, which generated power for LT (District & Piccadilly line amongst others) - don't recall seeing barges in the 90s so it may have been running on gas by then??

 

No, you are making the confusion between Lots Road Power Station( much of which still stands )and the old Fulham Power Station, which is now mostly demolished...

Fulham Power Station stood between Wandsworth Bridge and the Imperial Wharf station previously mentioned. It was recognisable by it's row of 4 chimneys, as opposed to Battersea with 4 mounted on corners. Like I say, can't remember coal trains, but it would suit the OP's freight requirements if it did have. It's riverside location made supplying it by barge more reasonable in reality, much like the gas company's ' Imperial Wharf '...

 

As regards Chelsea Basin, found this map......WLL runs through from top middle, crossing the river in the SE corner

 

Had no idea it was quite as expansive - certainly plenty of traffic generated by those wharves...The luxury ( frighteningly expensive ! ) complex, branded 'Chelsea Harbour' occupies the area now, complete with marina - I guess 'Chelsea Basin' didn't have the same ring to it !

[Glorious NSE]

Ta for that, suspect with much of it having gone before I moved into the area I wasn't aware there were two power stations in the vicinity!

 

Interesting to read Lots Rd is being developed, hopefully they can do something to retain the building and those gorgeous big windows.

[Chris116]

Ta for that, suspect with much of it having gone before I moved into the area I wasn't aware there were two power stations in the vicinity!

 

Interesting to read Lots Rd is being developed, hopefully they can do something to retain the building and those gorgeous big windows.

They could go one better and restart using it as a power station for LUL. Since LUL closed it the number of power outages must have tripled at least. Hardly a day seems to go by without a station being closed due to a local power failure and when Lots Road was used that just did not happen.

 

Chris

[roythebus]

ISTR there's already been quite a lengthy thread on here about the WLL. Remember too the excellent book on the line by either Oakwood or Middleton, complete with track plans, the lot.

 

there was a daily pick-up freight which called also at West Brompton where there was an extensive goods yard; the daily trip working of an LT pannier tank for the coal traffic for Lillie Bridge steam depot; later LT diesels for exchange traffic; horse box and circus trains at olympia. I don't remember milk trains running through, but there was milk train that used the Wimbledon-East Putney which may have gone to the WLL or Vauxhall.

 

I remember the old station at Chelsea in the late 50's, my aunt used to live in Holmead Road, the one along from the station. the platforms didn't go under either of the bridges. Whenever I stood at the station, there were never any trains, but then maybe I just didn't wait long enough. I saw pannier tanks shunting at Imperial Wharf; West Brompton goods was usually an ED. Also, Olympia was used for Western Region trains during the resignalling of Paddington in the 1960's so Westerns and Warships a-plenty then.

 

The Kenny Belle provided such a variety of stock and motive power, anything from a Q1/Bullied Pacific to a BR standard 2-6-4T in steam days. Norwood or Stewarts Lane provided the am service, while Nine Elms and later Waterloo done the afternoon train.

 

Imperial wharf was originally the start of the Kensington & Chelsea Canal; you can still see the original canal bridge at West Brompton, it's the westernmost arch where Lillie Road runs over. The canal was filled in to build the railway. On the east side of the railway at Chelsea was Chelsea Basin, a set of sidings where barges could transfer goods to rail. That is now what is Chelsea Harbour! ISTR Lots Road and Fulham powers stations were both only river-served. there were sidings into Fulham Gas Works, but what may have worked them I don't know. Lots Road was converted to gas turbine sometime in the 70's. It was about the time LT closed Neasden power station., and they ran a HT cable from Lots road alongside the railway, then under the towpath on the Grand Union canal past old Oak, to Neasden. That proved useful when we used to bike along the tow path to go spotting at OOC or Willesden! That would have been around 1964/5.

[bob liddle]

ISTR there's already been quite a lengthy thread on here about the WLL. Remember too the excellent book on the line by either Oakwood or Middleton, complete with track plans, the lot.

 

there was a daily pick-up freight which called also at West Brompton where there was an extensive goods yard; the daily trip working of an LT pannier tank for the coal traffic for Lillie Bridge steam depot; later LT diesels for exchange traffic; horse box and circus trains at olympia. I don't remember milk trains running through, but there was milk train that used the Wimbledon-East Putney which may have gone to the WLL or Vauxhall.

 

I remember the old station at Chelsea in the late 50's, my aunt used to live in Holmead Road, the one along from the station. the platforms didn't go under either of the bridges. Whenever I stood at the station, there were never any trains, but then maybe I just didn't wait long enough. I saw pannier tanks shunting at Imperial Wharf; West Brompton goods was usually an ED. Also, Olympia was used for Western Region trains during the resignalling of Paddington in the 1960's so Westerns and Warships a-plenty then.

 

The Kenny Belle provided such a variety of stock and motive power, anything from a Q1/Bullied Pacific to a BR standard 2-6-4T in steam days. Norwood or Stewarts Lane provided the am service, while Nine Elms and later Waterloo done the afternoon train.

 

Imperial wharf was originally the start of the Kensington & Chelsea Canal; you can still see the original canal bridge at West Brompton, it's the westernmost arch where Lillie Road runs over. The canal was filled in to build the railway. On the east side of the railway at Chelsea was Chelsea Basin, a set of sidings where barges could transfer goods to rail. That is now what is Chelsea Harbour! ISTR Lots Road and Fulham powers stations were both only river-served. there were sidings into Fulham Gas Works, but what may have worked them I don't know. Lots Road was converted to gas turbine sometime in the 70's. It was about the time LT closed Neasden power station., and they ran a HT cable from Lots road alongside the railway, then under the towpath on the Grand Union canal past old Oak, to Neasden. That proved useful when we used to bike along the tow path to go spotting at OOC or Willesden! That would have been around 1964/5.

 

Thanks for some more background information - also for mentioning a book by Oakwood which I had missed, I thought I had captured them all!

[acg5324]

As far as the passenger trains over the WLL are concerned details from 1979 onwards are on my website The rise and fall of cross country services to and from Brighton

I have WTT's for the West London line for most of the early part of the 1980's if you want details of the SAGA trains and Motorail.

[Baby Deltic]

I've photographed the sequence on the West London Line from Diesels And Electrics on 35mm by Video 125. I originally tried screen prints but it didn't work. The shots were apparently taken just south of Stamford Bridge Football ground.

Anyway, heres the loco's from the sequence:

 

82023 Kenny Bell:

 

 

D5241 on the 8066:

 

 

D8402 on transfer freight:

 

 

Class 24 on 4A11- the narration gives it as D5034, but the headcode box makes it look like it should be D5134: (D5134 was transferred to Camden shed in 1962)

 

 

D6351 on 9A73:

 

 

Kenny Bell running t'other way. Three MK1 suburbans and a Bulleid coach in tow?:

 

[roythebus]

The suburban with the white roiof is S1000, the experimental glass fibre roofed coach, now preserved somewhere.

[bob liddle]

As far as the passenger trains over the WLL are concerned details from 1979 onwards are on my website The rise and fall of cross country services to and from Brighton

I have WTT's for the West London line for most of the early part of the 1980's if you want details of the SAGA trains and Motorail.

 

Thanks for the website - lots of information and I may take up your offer of WTT information when I have collated all the information I am gathering.

[acg5324]

Thanks for the website - lots of information and I may take up your offer of WTT information when I have collated all the information I am gathering.

 

No problem just let me know.

[Oldddudders]

Not a problem, I agree the name is probably not the best to have used but the latest block of flats or whatever are called Imperial Wharf (I think there used to be a wharf on the river with that name) and the developer, I think, helped pay for the station which explains the name!

Correct. Having sat in on development meetings on all the new WLL stations in my Silverlink days, Imperial Wharf is indeed named to suit the developer who has provided the funding - it's just taken about 10 years for the station to arrive, that's all! There was considerable resistance in the Railtrack days to any new station building on the WLL, since that deplorable company regarded the route as a freight expansion opportunity, and did not want the existing Willesden-Clapham and Rugby-Brighton (quite right on all origins/destinations, Martyn) services dawdling at other stops, and reducing pathways as a result. Chelsea football club had ambitions to have a new station near their ground, or at least a walkway to West Brompton, to ease the travel congestion on match days. This was fiercely resisted by all - the 3-car 313 units would hardly have made much of a dent in a Premier League-sized crowd, and the large numbers of disgruntled footie fans left on the platform for 20 or 30 minutes waiting for the next train would have been a smoking bomb.

[Glorious NSE]

Thanks Ian

 

You're right the football traffic would indeed have been too much, and at West Brompton the other choice would have been to get on a district line train that's already full of fans boarding at Fulham.

 

Since the opening of Shepherds Bush and the adjacent shopping centre the services to/from Clapham have been crush loading at certain times of the day as it is - the 4 car 378 project can't come fast enough for that line!

 

I guess the Eurostars pulling out has freed up some more paths, but if we were to get a tunnel freight renaissance i'm not sure how well it could be handled, although there are other routes available.

 

(Europorte has recently been saying there is traffic out there which they are targeting which would work out as 250 trains per week, or about one an hour each way 24/5 on top of the existing traffic)

[Oldddudders]

I guess the Eurostars pulling out has freed up some more paths, but if we were to get a tunnel freight renaissance i'm not sure how well it could be handled, although there are other routes available.

 

(Europorte has recently been saying there is traffic out there which they are targeting which would work out as 250 trains per week, or about one an hour each way 24/5 on top of the existing traffic)

I think the WLL might be able to squeeze things in rather better than the routes south thereof. The Central main line between Clapham Junction and Gatwick is famously a nightmare for pathing already, so the intended Class 92 route via Redhill & Tonbridge would only be available out-of-hours. Catford Loop and Maidstone East might be better, but even then the Factory Junction - Brixton Junction bit is pretty crowded, I suspect.

 

In many respects I do not envy those running today's railway - many of the conflicting demands that beset them didn't exist in the Nationalised era when I was more familiar with day to day operations. But at least the system seems essentially healthy, in contrast to the expectations of those who decided to flog it, believing the fruit would wither on the vine. Did advisers ever get it so wrong?

[Chris116]

Correct. Having sat in on development meetings on all the new WLL stations in my Silverlink days, Imperial Wharf is indeed named to suit the developer who has provided the funding - it's just taken about 10 years for the station to arrive, that's all! There was considerable resistance in the Railtrack days to any new station building on the WLL, since that deplorable company regarded the route as a freight expansion opportunity, and did not want the existing Willesden-Clapham and Rugby-Brighton (quite right on all origins/destinations, Martyn) services dawdling at other stops, and reducing pathways as a result. Chelsea football club had ambitions to have a new station near their ground, or at least a walkway to West Brompton, to ease the travel congestion on match days. This was fiercely resisted by all - the 3-car 313 units would hardly have made much of a dent in a Premier League-sized crowd, and the large numbers of disgruntled footie fans left on the platform for 20 or 30 minutes waiting for the next train would have been a smoking bomb.

Working at West Brompton one weekend in four I can confirm that even with the walk from Stamford bridge the London Overground and Southern trains are packed and leaving people behind after a match and not only could we do with longer trains but also more of them. The London Overground will be lengthened sooner rather than later I hope but the Southern are already four cars and that is the most the platforms will take at West Brompton on the National Rail side. The worst problem is that the Southern service to Watford Junction and Milton Keynes is only once an hour and the football fans expect but don't get extra services which leaves the Underground station staff with more than a few headaches!

 

Chris

[Baby Deltic]

At one time, myself and L49 were planning to do Uxbridge Road as an exhibition layout. In the end we settled for Western Junction, which was dismantled and became Harford Street. The sheer weight of traffic, plus the number of steam and diesel types in the 1960's makes the West London line a tempting basis for a layout.

[roythebus]

One of the layout ideas mooted at the Model Railway club in the late 1970's was for a layout based on Olympia to be called Adamson Road. We made a lot of sketch plans, but eventually built New Annington!

[bob liddle]

I am still researching prototype information on the line as well as building the model.

 

Has anybody any information on traffic flows of oil and petrol on the line from the 1960` to date.

 

 

Many thanks

[Oldddudders]

I am still researching prototype information on the line as well as building the model.

 

Has anybody any information on traffic flows of oil and petrol on the line from the 1960` to date.

 

 

Many thanks

In the early '70s there were near-daily workings Thames Haven/Ripple Lane to Gatwick (later Salfords) with aviation spirit. These only ceased when the pipeline was commissioned.

[bob liddle]

In the early '70s there were near-daily workings Thames Haven/Ripple Lane to Gatwick (later Salfords) with aviation spirit. These only ceased when the pipeline was commissioned.

 

Many thanks - look forward to hearing from any others with information or even better some photos - why was the WLL considered such a backwater for photographers?

[Glorious NSE]

Many thanks - look forward to hearing from any others with information

 

In recent years petroleum flows would be limited to gasoil from Fawley for various locations travelling on the Eastleigh-Wembley enterprise, although for a time all EWS/DBS depots were fuelled from Lindsey so there was also a reverse flow of tanks from Lindsey to Eastleigh for EWS!

 

Since about a year ago DBS moved their wagonload hub from Wembley to Didcot so that train doesn't run via the WLL any more...

 

why was the WLL considered such a backwater for photographers?

 

These days it's quite well covered, I would theorise that pre 1980s most folk spent their time shooting passenger trains and shot freight as the saw it, as they gradually became more "predictable" traction wise folk started paying more attention to freight and so routes like this one (which had very little passenger work for years) became visited more often...?

[johnst]

I was a Guard working from Eastleigh from 1969 to 1979 and we had a few jobs that used the WLL. One of the regular ones was the Fawley to Old Oak Common tanks,which carried tanks of Diesel fuel for the Depot,I think we used to arrive at Old Oak at around 1700 and leave after 1800 with the empties. As I remember it used to run twice a week and on the other three weekdays we used to go to Oxford.

In 1970/71 there was a job where we had to travel, very late in the evening, on a parcels train from Clapham Yard to Willesden High Level to pick up the Stratford to Millbrook Freightliner. The parcels was worked by a class 15 on the one occasion I did that job.

There was also the Brockenhurst to Stirling Motorail service which ran at weekends and was worked by a class 33 as far as Kensington Olympia and combined with a portion from Dover. I recall that at one stage the portions were combined at Willesden South West Sidings.

[bob liddle]

Many thanks to those who responded - it all helps to start to try and understand these sort of traffic flows. Any more information from other members would be welcomed and much appreciated.

[Shedmaster]

Correct. Having sat in on development meetings on all the new WLL stations in my Silverlink days, Imperial Wharf is indeed named to suit the developer who has provided the funding - it's just taken about 10 years for the station to arrive, that's all! There was considerable resistance in the Railtrack days to any new station building on the WLL, since that deplorable company regarded the route as a freight expansion opportunity, and did not want the existing Willesden-Clapham and Rugby-Brighton (quite right on all origins/destinations, Martyn) services dawdling at other stops, and reducing pathways as a result. Chelsea football club had ambitions to have a new station near their ground, or at least a walkway to West Brompton, to ease the travel congestion on match days. This was fiercely resisted by all - the 3-car 313 units would hardly have made much of a dent in a Premier League-sized crowd, and the large numbers of disgruntled footie fans left on the platform for 20 or 30 minutes waiting for the next train would have been a smoking bomb.

 

Hiya,

 

The West London Line seems to be a bit of a PITA nowadays and should have been left as it was.......from a freight train Drivers point of view. Railtrack did have some sensible ideas after all, if only a few !

 

A heavy freight train travelling along this route is almost guaranteed to have to follow a 'juicer' from Latchmere to Mitre Bridge/Willesden, that seems to take absolutely forever to get through the signal sections on this portion of line for whatever reason.......they take blooming AGES, and thats with units such as the London Overground 378's and Electrostars, imagine the havoc with a 12-car inter-regional express !!! A freight will be lucky to attain walking pace let alone the permitted line speed.

 

The intelligence of running so many trains at the same time ( greed? ) soon develops into a tangled mess, when the Victoria Signaller routes a heavy freight through the 25mph platform at Kenny O, dropping to 15, where due to the inability to attain the permitted speed, it will often not make it up North Pole Bank and then cause no end of problems for other trains.

 

There is an inherrent problem with the four character headcode system today whereby the number on the screen is often not understood by the signaller and used in conjunction with gradient profiles for routes such as this, plus the fact that the Class 66 shouldn't be pulling 2,000t anywhere, let alone up North Pole Bank. A signaller will often ask where you are going as he cannot rely on the headcode provided by the previous box. The system needs to be more robust but I digress......

 

The West London Line should have been left as it was, it worked. Simple !

 

Just to contradict that statement a little........when building new stations such as Shepherds Bush and West Brompton and considering their surrounding customers, such as a large football club and shopping centre, why did these two stations not feature longer platforms to enable long distance inter-regionals to call at certain busy times such as match days or Christmas shopping ? As much as I wouldn't appreciate the dwell times of these trains, it would allow the modern railway to offer some flexibility to it's external customers ?

 

Anyway, less trains please, so that the ones that are left have a chance of running properly !!!

 

Dave

[South of 1E]

Hiya,

 

The West London Line seems to be a bit of a PITA nowadays and should have been left as it was.......from a freight train Drivers point of view. Railtrack did have some sensible ideas after all, if only a few !

 

A heavy freight train travelling along this route is almost guaranteed to have to follow a 'juicer' from Latchmere to Mitre Bridge/Willesden, that seems to take absolutely forever to get through the signal sections on this portion of line for whatever reason.......they take blooming AGES, and thats with units such as the London Overground 378's and Electrostars, imagine the havoc with a 12-car inter-regional express !!! A freight will be lucky to attain walking pace let alone the permitted line speed.

 

The intelligence of running so many trains at the same time ( greed? ) soon develops into a tangled mess, when the Victoria Signaller routes a heavy freight through the 25mph platform at Kenny O, dropping to 15, where due to the inability to attain the permitted speed, it will often not make it up North Pole Bank and then cause no end of problems for other trains.

 

There is an inherrent problem with the four character headcode system today whereby the number on the screen is often not understood by the signaller and used in conjunction with gradient profiles for routes such as this, plus the fact that the Class 66 shouldn't be pulling 2,000t anywhere, let alone up North Pole Bank. A signaller will often ask where you are going as he cannot rely on the headcode provided by the previous box. The system needs to be more robust but I digress......

 

The West London Line should have been left as it was, it worked. Simple !

 

Just to contradict that statement a little........when building new stations such as Shepherds Bush and West Brompton and considering their surrounding customers, such as a large football club and shopping centre, why did these two stations not feature longer platforms to enable long distance inter-regionals to call at certain busy times such as match days or Christmas shopping ? As much as I wouldn't appreciate the dwell times of these trains, it would allow the modern railway to offer some flexibility to it's external customers ?

 

Anyway, less trains please, so that the ones that are left have a chance of running properly !!!

 

Dave