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Austrian HOe Layout - Any help seriously appreciated!


p.bull

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Hi all,

 

I'm new to the forums and would just like to say hello to all of you. I have posted this topic in the advice section but wanted to post it in here too. (Apologies if that's against the rules)

 

I'm going to be building an HOe layout, based on the 760mm Zillertalbahn line that runs from Jenbach through to Mayrhofen. I have a bit of experience modelling but really want to make a well thought out and professional layout. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the correct direction. I would ideally like to make it to an exhibition standard. I have included a couple of links from BEMO exhibitions that I think are relevant. I want to get my layout up to this standard.

 

Links:

 

Taken from 'Modellbaumesse Friedrichshafen 2008':

 

 

 

 

Taken from 'Intermodellbau2010 Bemo-Anlage':

 

 

 

 

I need really need any information or help on:

 

1. Everything to do with baseboard planning, designing, construction and fitting.

 

2. Track and electric planning and laying, digital control, point motors, correct type of track, electrics for lighting and moving scenery.

 

3. Scenery foundations,mountain building, rock face creation

 

4. Scenery including alpine trees, realistic grass, roadways, track beds and ballasting, houses andstation buildings, wallpaper backgrounds.

 

5. Any other business or other thoughts that would help.

 

 

 

I feel that this is a lot to ask, but really need some sort of step by step guide that I can use as a foundation. Is there an available DVD or Video, specific to Austrian/Swiss modelling that could help? I know that therewill be a lot of information on the forum, maybe someone could point me to the various posts that answer my query? (Apologies if I'm repeating what hundreds have asked before.)

 

 

 

Many thanks

 

Pete

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I know that they're American and not Swiss but 'Planning Scenery for your Model Railroad' and 'The New Scenery Tips & Techniques' from Kalmbach Books in their Model Railroader Books series should have some usefull information that would translate to a Swiss layout.

Both books cover tree making and the 'Planning' book covers rock faces.

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First hello and nice choice of line to model.

 

1. Everything to do with baseboard planning, designing, construction and fitting.

 

2. Track and electric planning and laying, digital control, point motors, correct type of track, electrics for lighting and moving scenery.

 

3. Scenery foundations,mountain building, rock face creation

 

4. Scenery including alpine trees, realistic grass, roadways, track beds and ballasting, houses andstation buildings, wallpaper backgrounds.

 

As mentioned above the Kalmbach books are excellent and cover everything from baseboards, wiring including DCC, and scenery through to control. The scenery books by Dave Frary and Bob Hayden are particularly appropriate as much of the techniques cover similar mountainous scenery.

Available from Steam Powered Video in their modelling book section www.SPV.co.uk

 

On my Swiss layout I use 50mm polystyrene sheet to build up the ground around an open frame style baseboards built using the techniques favoured in the US called the L girder system.

 

Track, Peco's new mainline 009 track available anywhere or Tillig track available from International Models.

http://www.internati...w_Gauge_23.html

 

I use DAS air dying clay in Woodland scenics rubber moulds to make the rock faces as they are much lighter than casting in plaster.

Try Hobbycraft stores for the clay, Most Bachmann stockists for Woodland scenics.

http://www.Bachmann....scenics&prod=15

 

 

Grass, either Noch grass mats which are difficult to shape over the bumps or the Noch Grassmaster which there are several threads on here about. Both available from Gaugemaster or Ontracks. http://www.gaugemaster.com/noch.html

 

Trees, Noch, Busch or Gaugemaster (which appear to be repackaged Noch to me anyway) for anything up to 150mm tall and if you want something bigger then try the Busch G scale trees which are now £8-£10 each but 330mm tall. I got most of mine from Gaugemaster, Ontracks and Winco.

http://www.gaugemaster.com/noch.html

big trees

I used 20 of the 8609 & 8609 by busch which I ordered through Winco but check current prices.

 

Buildings, Faller and Kibri available from Gaugemaster and Winco.

 

Trains, Roco and Stangl available from Gaugemaster and Winco.

http://www.winco.uk....stanglmain.html

 

 

Backscenes, International Models offer a good range and also look at the Faller ones.

http://www.internati...kscenes_45.html

 

I've not seen any dvd's on building European layouts but for prototype reference try the Ian Allan online http://www.ianallanp...1.html?cat=1431

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Pete,

 

if you can read German I would also suggest you have a look at http://www.albulamodell.ch/ - while this site is about a H0m layout representing the Albula line from the Rhätische Bahn network in Switzerland I could imagine it might contain information and illustrations which could be relevant to narrow gauge modelling in general. Of course, it also is absolutely worth of just being looked at!

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Just to add my tuppence to the thread.

I used to model OeBB Waldviertelbahn in HO/HOe.

 

My preferred choice of track was Tillig.

 

If you compare the rail sections of Peco and Tillig you'll find there is a far greater area for pickup on the latter, as well as Tillig looking far more prototypical for modern narrow gauge.

 

The other word of advice is that the vast majority of Austrian narrow gauge track layout was loops off the mainline rather than dead end sidings.

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So many questions! If you intend to model theZillertalbahn, I suggest your first step is to become familiar with it (the stock, the building styles both of the railway and the places it passes through, and the landscape. If you are merely going to do something "based on the Zillertalbahn" you can then forget as much of that detail as you choose and just take hold of your Modeller's Licence and build an HOe layout.

 

For the current ZB, I believe the diesels are in the pipeline (first batch of the shunters sold out, I think the larger B-B loco(s) and perhaps the current stock are now planned by Roco. For the more interesting ex-tram railcars, you'll have to scratchbuild. Of course, the thing everyone associates with the ZB are steam engines. The Bachmann-Liliput 0-6-2T has been produced in many forms over the years, but even on the latest version I assume that fitting a decoder will be an exercise in finding space (I don't do dcc, but I can tell you these locos are filled up by the motor and weights.

 

Nice RhB videos, by the way. In the first one, the trees are scale height - they look enormous, and will make the volume of your layout *much* larger (for transportation). Most people scale down the trees to fit the space. In the second, the Krokodil looked to be running a little too fast - just my opinion, but some people think an exhibition layout should try to run at scale speeds - with 9mm gauge, that can be difficult.

 

Most of what you are asking is covered in existing/past threads. The thing to remember is that most of the time there is no one true "right way" of doing things, model railways are always a compromise, and you have to build it in a way that suits yourself. I suggest you take some time to look through the various threads on the current site and on the previous site, to give yourself an idea of how different people do things differently.

 

Unless you are already experienced in using HOe stock, I also suggest that you start with a *small* layout on which you can try things out. I came back to the hobby in the last 3 years, and my first layout (Austrian HOe) was/is just a test track on a 4'x2' board (small enough to fit on a table without worrying about legs or joining boards, but a bit too tiny to run trains of more than two or at most three 4-axle carriages, or to be interesting, and forced to use very tight curves. Since then, I've had to build a bigger board to run-in 00 stock, and took the opportunity to put 009/HOe (12" radius) and HOm (15" radius) loops inside that. With some of my HOe stock, particularly 5090 railcars, I now regard 12" radius as a minimum, and much larger does, of course, look better. What the first of these test tracks has also done is let me experiment with scenic treatment and backscene. I then did more experimentation with static grasses on the bigger track. On the first, I also learned that putting long grass within or at the edge of the track (a common feature of NG railways) can be detrimental to reliable running. There is a lot to learn, trying to learn it all at the same time will probably lead to frustration.

 

I'm also surprised nobody has mentioned the ARG yet. Main site at http://www.austrianrailwaygroup.co.uk/ and pics at http://austrianrailw...up.fotopic.net/ .

 

For track, I like to keep things simple - the new Peco 'mainline' track and points are probably good enough. But then, I don't mind latching (quick move) point motors, nor do I like the look of Tillig points (that's probably just me, others think they're the bees' knees) and I don't like the height of Tillig code 83, nor am I impressed by the darkening they apply to it. YMMV.

 

Also, not quite sure what you meant by "Wallpaper" backscenes. If you meant "printed paper", one of the German manufacturers (probably Noch or Faller) produces some which might pass for the Tirol - I'm not familiar with the Zillertal (except at Jenbach ÖBB) so don't know what scenery is appropriate - I assume it isn't anywhere near as rugged as the Kaisergebirge around Kirchdorf etc. But, first scope the size of the layout, and the height of the backscenes - if you do something big, maybe the only sensible option will be to paint the backscene.

 

ĸen

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Hi Pete-First up,cards on the table -I`m speaking from deep in the modellers armchair here,although I have moved into the `active planning` phase.

I would say Ken has the right of it -time spent on a 4`x 2` test bed wont be wasted-you can divide it into wee blocks to test different scenic techniques,mix & match track types ( the note about Tillig track offering a greater contact area is worth it`s weight in Czech Pilsner ) check out building `footprints` ,-and with mountain modelling lets not forget height-the lost dimension....and at the end of it you end up with a nice wee coffee table layout you can run in the engines on ( sorry about the syntax there) whilst the boss is watching EastendCoronationDale.... A win/win.

 

Also,as noted above,would be interested to see how you get on with digital-Again as noted by Ken,space is the issue-I suppose the chip could be sited in a baggage van perma-coupled to each loco with thin wire connections ( surplus computer cable is an excellent donor here-4 very flexible multistrand lines per cable-I use them for colour light signals)-Also would be interested to know how those little motors respond to the DCC way of doing things

 

Looking forward to progress reports

ATB

Nick

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Hi guys!

 

Many many thanks for the info. I will look into the info you have given me and see how I get on. I really appreciate all of this.

 

I will keep you updated with my plans. I'm going to make a test bed and see what works/and what doesn't.

 

Let's see how that goes first :-D

 

All the best

 

Pete

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Hi Pete

 

One more point from 1216 025, see also the links on http://www.albulamodell.ch/ and see the Albulabahn Shop for all kinds of goodies - or go direct to http://www.albulamodell.ch/shop/catalog/ - the site is also available in 'English', see bottom right-hand corner, and you can get prices in Euros. Tom is very helpful.

 

 

If you have a Google link, that will offer you a free translator download for any other sites you might visit.

 

Bob

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

I'm going to be building an HOe layout, based on the 760mm Zillertalbahn line that runs from Jenbach through to Mayrhofen. I have a bit of experience modelling but really want to make a well thought out and professional layout. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the correct direction. I would ideally like to make it to an exhibition standard. I have included a couple of links from BEMO exhibitions that I think are relevant. I want to get my layout up to this standard.

 

I need really need any information or help on:

 

1. Everything to do with baseboard planning, designing, construction and fitting.

 

2. Track and electric planning and laying, digital control, point motors, correct type of track, electrics for lighting and moving scenery.

 

 

 

Track planning is a bit of an art in its own right, if you are not trying to make an accurate scale model of a prototype, but merely using it as an inspiration, then you really have a lot of lee way in where you want to go. Many a track plan for larger H0 scales will work quite happily scaled down to H0e, I have found that this site has some useful track plans that with a modicum of playing around can be made into something functional and effective.

 

Modelling in H0e you are going to find that a lot of the documentation out there is in German, I don't know if that is likely to cause you any problems down the line (if not find yourself a pet translator :P)

 

As for which track to use, if you aren't comfy making your own track, then I would say use the Tillig stuff. Its more expensive than the PECO stuff, but IMHO, nicer to use.

 

Hope this will help you heading in a sensible direction.

 

J

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Its a long time since I modelled Austrian 76cm gauge lines, but during the 1970s/80s, I travelled over most of them and took a lot of notes of track layouts and other details. This makes me wonder if the designer of the track plan in the website Julia recommends has looked at the prototype.

 

A very useful book on almost all the 76cm gauge lines in Austria (of which there are many, many more than just the Zillertal, which in my view is not the most interesting or attractive of them)is "Schmalspurig durch Osetrreich" published by Verlag Slezak of Vienna - its the Austrian NG bible!

 

If you let me know what kind of layout you are planning - through station, terminus, junction with the SG, I'll dig out my notes and send you sketches of station track plans.

 

Best wishes

 

David C

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  • 1 month later...

Hi David!

 

Apologies for not responding sooner. That sounds great. I'm going to be quite busy for the next few months, but eventually I will get a bit of time to start planning and building.

 

I will keep you updated.

 

All the best

 

Pete :-)

 

 

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Track planning is a bit of an art in its own right, if you are not trying to make an accurate scale model of a prototype, but merely using it as an inspiration, then you really have a lot of lee way in where you want to go. Many a track plan for larger H0 scales will work quite happily scaled down to H0e, I have found that this site has some useful track plans that with a modicum of playing around can be made into something functional and effective.

 

Modelling in H0e you are going to find that a lot of the documentation out there is in German, I don't know if that is likely to cause you any problems down the line (if not find yourself a pet translator :P)

 

As for which track to use, if you aren't comfy making your own track, then I would say use the Tillig stuff. Its more expensive than the PECO stuff, but IMHO, nicer to use.

 

Hope this will help you heading in a sensible direction.

 

J

 

 

Hi Julia,

 

Thanks for the reply. I think I might try out the new PECO H0e/HOe track. It looks pretty good and I've been advised to give it a go :-)

 

All the best

 

Pete :-)

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Pete,

 

You might also want to try this place for Austrian models: http://www.ferro-train.com/ and here: http://www.auhagen.de/ they have some narrow gauge specific models...

 

As for modelling the ZB, go on Holiday there, it's great! I went there a few years ago and it got me started on my current layout, which is a free-style interpretation of a link between the ZB and the Pinzgauer (Zell am See to Krimml).

 

Before you even start thinking about baseboard construction, think about the layout itself. What is it going to look like?

 

Good luck,

 

Friso

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  • 6 months later...

I went there a few years ago and it got me started on my current layout, which is a free-style interpretation of a link between the ZB and the Pinzgauer (Zell am See to Krimml).

 

 

Now that would be a challenge! Both lines end at the stub of a glaciated valley ... you could have a very long tunnel I suppose - or a rack section at both ends ... there is a sort of a flattish bit, up the top, between the two valleys. :)

 

I've driven from one valley to the other and it was a teensy bit hairy.

 

The good news is that the PZB is now in the hands of Land Salzburg who have spent a fortune rebuilding and re-equipping it.

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