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Hornby Clan


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I had concerns about the position of the lining on the cylinders and have fitted some spares.  A comparison of the cylinders from Clan MacDonald compared to Hornby's spare Britannia / Clan cylinders is quite informative.

 

51645184320_00fe5567b6_5k.jpg

 

Clan MacDonald fitted with replacement cylinders - old stock?

 

For those of you who like watching trains go by another video featuring Clan Stewart (alias Clan McLeod) showcasing some improvements that I have been making to some elderly Dining and Restaurant cars.

 

 

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Enjoyable video, Ray.  Nice coaches.  By coincidence my "Clan" test train that's been running round my layout also has a 12 wheeled restaurant car, somewhat breathed on. 

 

 

P1060406.JPG.76b1e4993bcb57fd8c98c32a0d06e423.JPG

 

One thing I found with my Clan is that the valve gear wasn't moving very much and in fact the return crank  on both sides was aligned with the centre of the wheel.  Out with my Hornby R913 con rod nut spinner and the cranks are now set as they should be and all is well.

 

P1060407.JPG.125e78008e2595396aee0712c1645d57.JPG

 

Should be like this Duchess drawing.

 

 

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Reviewed in this months Hornby Mag. They noted the green running boards and said they believed they were incorrect. I think if Hornby mag with its close relations to Hornby PLC plus its access to the former Ian Allan photo library can't produce evidence (photographic  or other) of the green running boards we are safe to say that Hornby have made a mistake with the model.

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32 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Reviewed in this months Hornby Mag. They noted the green running boards and said they believed they were incorrect. I think if Hornby mag with its close relations to Hornby PLC plus its access to the former Ian Allan photo library can't produce evidence (photographic  or other) of the green running boards we are safe to say that Hornby have made a mistake with the model.

Mike, I've not picked up my copy of HM as yet, but does this apply to the E/C, L/C version or both?

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3 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Mike, I've not picked up my copy of HM as yet, but does this apply to the E/C, L/C version or both?

Review is of the E/C version  - no mention of the L/C. I still reckon its wrong for both though - if there was evidence for green running boards Hornby would have shared it by now I'm sure. 

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26 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Review is of the E/C version  - no mention of the L/C. I still reckon its wrong for both though - if there was evidence for green running boards Hornby would have shared it by now I'm sure. 

Wait for the inevitable price reductions in the bargain bin it is then !

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3 hours ago, Farang said:

I was at a swapmeet recently and a trader had one of the original Clans for £85. It looked okay but is the current model the same tooling as was used back in 2009?

Looks to the be the same tooling for the body tho people here have commented that the motor and or the gearing are different. The originals are silky smooth runners in my experience  - £85 was a good price depending on condition, there are a lot of detail parts that can get damaged or lost so you'd need to examine carefully if that kind of thing bothers you. Prices for the original seem to have softened on the auction sites with the model being available new again.

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On 04/11/2021 at 14:25, MikeParkin65 said:

. I think if Hornby mag with its close relations to Hornby PLC 

Is this actually the case? Key Publishing (presumably) pay to use the Hornby name, but there is no other business relationship between the two parties I'm aware of, so what are these 'close relations'?

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1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

Is this actually the case? Key Publishing (presumably) pay to use the Hornby name, but there is no other business relationship between the two parties I'm aware of, so what are these 'close relations'?

There seems to be a happy symbiosis between the two. Using the Hornby name may be an historical reference but implying Hornby is synonymous with Model Railways is doing neither party any harm and extends to publications (the recent 100 years book for example) plus extensive use of Hornby pre production illustrations and text - Hornby PLC (I am saying that purely to differentiate it from the magazine title) regularly comes first in and forms the major part of the magazines News section.

 

I haven't  problem with this in the context of the Clan and dont want to create thread drift but I am saying if the green running boards had evidence this is the magazine I'd most expect to see it in :)

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19 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said:

I would be interested to know if the gearing is different,

 

I doubt the gearing is different - just a change in design of the motor.

 

I would add to your list of 'improvements' - a fixed engine to tender coupling.  As to a better quality - I will reserve my judgement for a little bit longer.

 

Cheers Ray

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20 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

There seems to be a happy symbiosis between the two. Using the Hornby name may be an historical reference but implying Hornby is synonymous with Model Railways is doing neither party any harm and extends to publications (the recent 100 years book for example) plus extensive use of Hornby pre production illustrations and text - Hornby PLC (I am saying that purely to differentiate it from the magazine title) regularly comes first in and forms the major part of the magazines News section.

 

I haven't  problem with this in the context of the Clan and dont want to create thread drift but I am saying if the green running boards had evidence this is the magazine I'd most expect to see it in :)

 Yes they are completely separate companies but there is some agreement between them that Hornby mag gets pictures of new developments from Hornby  livery samples etc . You often find that the annual catalogue is bundled with that months Hornby Mag as well , so I'm not sure if Key print, publish and distribute catalogue , but there is definitely some relationship between them.

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7 hours ago, Legend said:

 Yes they are completely separate companies but there is some agreement between them that Hornby mag gets pictures of new developments from Hornby  livery samples etc . You often find that the annual catalogue is bundled with that months Hornby Mag as well , so I'm not sure if Key print, publish and distribute catalogue , but there is definitely some relationship between them.

 

Just the same as the old Airfix Model Trains magazine was in the early 1980s.

 

Very little Airfix in it. Just used the name.

 

http://magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/Model-Trains-1980

 

Later merged with Scale Trains to make Scale Model Trains.

 

 

Jason

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10 hours ago, cbrooks122000 said:

Generally the newer models seem to be better quality as a lot of the older ones were made when Hornby was being run by a "Venture Capitalist Company" trying to save pennies in order to waste pounds on quality. After watching the James May program I think virtually all their new models are "new tooling" as the previous owners destroyed the originals.

 

The tools that were disposed of were the remaining Triang and Hornby ones for Margate made items that had not previously gone to China. So things like the APT, the Rocket, the EM2 etc. In theory all the post 1998 'super-detail' tools should exist but there is some doubt about some of the Sanda Kan items where elements of the tool sets may have gone missing during the factory closedown/transfer basis. However, a fair bit of the ex-Margate tooling has gone to China in the past 23 years, some of which is still in use (e.g. Railroad pre-nationalisation coaches) but quite a bit of which has since been replaced (e.g. Mk1 coaches). 

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10 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 ...........As to a better quality - I will reserve my judgement for a little bit longer.....

 

 

On the theme of quality control I will add a picture from this afternoons activities.  I have spent an inordinate amount of time trying to get Oliver Cromwell to run slowly (the one from the 15 guinea boxed set).  I have been playing mix and match with wheels and rods and have made progress.  I was intrigued with this comparison of the main driving wheel set from Oliver with one from a newly purchased set of spares - Olivers is the short brass bearing which was splopping around in the usual sized slot in the chassis.

 

51668582064_99e7d6dc5a_5k.jpg

 

Oliver left, spares right

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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Evening all,

 

Another image passed on by the helpful and comprehensive customer care team. Further evidence they believe of the running plates being green. What are your thoughts? 

 

It sounds as though they're not budging on the colour of the running plates - at least it's good to know that what we've got is what we've got. 

 

Not a whinge nor a moan; healthy discussion only!

 

Supplied photo taken by Gary Straiton.

 

Henry

 

 

upload.png

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14 hours ago, Henry 84F said:

Evening all,

 

Another image passed on by the helpful and comprehensive customer care team.

 

 

Now where did Hornby find this image.......maybe one I posted earlier?  I should stress that it 'belongs' to Gary Straiton on Flickr.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/224-Hornby-clan/&do=findComment&comment=4599419

 

Cheers Ray

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1 hour ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

Now where did Hornby find this image.......maybe one I posted earlier?  I should stress that it 'belongs' to Gary Straiton on Flickr.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/224-Hornby-clan/&do=findComment&comment=4599419

 

Cheers Ray

I thought I'd seen it before on this thread! That's well cheeky if this is where they've got it from. It has struck me from the Hornby programme on TV at the moment that a lot of the researchers are very young and don't put themselves up as experts in the subjects they are modelling. Nothing wrong with this - the manufacturers need new blood and RTR is as much about design ability as prototype knowledge but I do wonder if this  error (because I'm convinced this is what it is) is a result of lack of knowledge and the misinterpretation of marginal evidence?

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Where evidence is to be interpreted, there will naturally be disagreements. I for one am satisfied that the above picture shows a green running board and I am equally happy with my new model of Clan Stewart

 

and to quote Isaac Asimov ‘being young is a fault that most are guilty of at some point in their lives’. Youth also does not imply ignorance - I am one of the younger generation myself and I take my research for such things as seriously as any :)

 

now I just need to get a job at Hornby designing things :)

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2 minutes ago, Edge said:

Where evidence is to be interpreted, there will naturally be disagreements. I for one am satisfied that the above picture shows a green running board and I am equally happy with my new model of Clan Stewart

 

and to quote Isaac Asimov ‘being young is a fault that most are guilty of at some point in their lives’. Youth also does not imply ignorance - I am one of the younger generation myself and I take my research for such things as seriously as any :)

 

now I just need to get a job at Hornby designing things :)

I don't believe I implied ignorance  - simply lack of the detailed knowledge that only comes with experience. There is an awful lot of evidence that running boards were black on most loco's and very little evidence that Clans had green. If Hornby had followed convention and painted the boards black I doubt an eyebrow would have been raised. As it is they have made these models very distinctive based on very marginal evidence. I would love to see unambiguous evidence that Hornby have both of the current models correct in the latest release - I would happily stand corrected (I'm too young to have seen them first hand as well).  Glad you are happy with your model :)

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On 10/11/2021 at 12:11, MikeParkin65 said:

I don't believe I implied ignorance  - simply lack of the detailed knowledge that only comes with experience. There is an awful lot of evidence that running boards were black on most loco's and very little evidence that Clans had green. If Hornby had followed convention and painted the boards black I doubt an eyebrow would have been raised. As it is they have made these models very distinctive based on very marginal evidence. I would love to see unambiguous evidence that Hornby have both of the current models correct in the latest release - I would happily stand corrected (I'm too young to have seen them first hand as well).  Glad you are happy with your model :)

 

..... and I remain to be convinced that Hornby ever intended the running plates to be green - more likely a factory error that Hornby don't wish to hold their hands up to.

 

CJI.

Edited by cctransuk
mistype
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13 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

..... and I remain to be convinced that Hornby ever intended the running plates to be black - more likely a factory error that Hornby don't wish to hold their hands up to.

 

CJI.

'..... running plates to be green' I think you mean in which case I agree its as likely an explanation as any :)

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That does look green in the photo, and I don’t think it unlikely that one or more Clans post-61 had their footplates painted that colour. But I have little doubt that

 all were black in the 1950s, and will repaint my 72004 accordingly.

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22 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I thought I'd seen it before on this thread! That's well cheeky if this is where they've got it from. It has struck me from the Hornby programme on TV at the moment that a lot of the researchers are very young and don't put themselves up as experts in the subjects they are modelling. Nothing wrong with this - the manufacturers need new blood and RTR is as much about design ability as prototype knowledge but I do wonder if this  error (because I'm convinced this is what it is) is a result of lack of knowledge and the misinterpretation of marginal evidence?

I think you have made an excellent point. There are still people here who have worked on the railways even in steam days and their knowledge is very deep. There isn’t the interest in railways that there was once and many come to the job raw. However careful young people are, the depth of understanding isn’t there. Why are smokeboxes black? They aren’t insulated; paint would discolour. Why are running plates black? Because boots trample all over them.

 

My late partner would listen patiently to me burble and would even manage to ask a bright question from time to time but I remember an incident when she swore a GWR 2-8-0 was black. It was, of course, green. I tried to look at it through her eyes. I just assumed (as we all do) that all steam locomotives have black smokeboxes and lots of black in various places. What distinguishes company liveries is the colour; so we talk of red, GWR green and so on. Looked at from the front, the 2-8-0 was black apart from the buffer beam.

 

I have never quite rid myself of the suspicion that she was trying to wind me up. It can’t be easy being a SWMBO to a railway modeller.

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