South Wales industrial railways

[br2975]

For most of my formative years, this was the closest industrial loco to my home.

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Wiggins Teape (previously Thomas Owen) owned a large paper mill alongside both the South Wales main line and Penarth Jct. (Radyr) - Leckwith freight line (now called The City Line) with access to both routes.

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0-4-0ST RSH 7705/1952 worked at the mill for all its working life, until initially passing to the collection of the National Museum of Wales, who in turn loaned it to the Caerphilly Railway Society, who were based at the former GWR Caerphilly Works site, until evicted, with some stock going to the GWS at Didcot and the remainder to the Gwili Railway (this is a brief synopsis).

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7705 ended up at the Barry Island preservation site, but where it is at the moment, I don't know (but have a feeling I'll soon read about it !).

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Other locos used at the mill in recent years included a 'Planet' (yep another one) FH 3947 'Ely' and a BR Cl.03, hired for 6 months in 1970 from A.R.Adams of Newport, and their No.2 but ex-BR D2178.

 

The Ely Paper Mill has been closed for some years, and the site now levelled.

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How many inhabitants of west Cardiff can still recall the air raid siren there, that sounded every morning just before 8.00am ?

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Brian R

[Arthur]

Yep, it's all in From Dowlais to Tremorfa! The pensions situation with Allied (and others) was absolutely bloody scandalous. You've got to feel for somebody who's paid into a pension fund for thirty years and a couple of years from retirement find the fund empty. You had a lucky escape!!

[br2975]

Yep, it's all in From Dowlais to Tremorfa! The pensions situation with Allied (and others) was absolutely bloody scandalous. You've got to feel for somebody who's paid into a pension fund for thirty years and a couple of years from retirement find the fund empty. You had a lucky escape!!

 

A friend of mine has three brothers, all of whom worked at ASW, the eldest being a mill manager, who, out of the blue received an offer of a job in Oklahoma where a company were setting up a mini-mil at the time of the ASW liquidation. John had shown some of the Oklahoma staff around ASW and they remembered him. He worked in the USA for several years after losing his job in Cardiff, and now lives in Spain, where I see him a few times a year.

 

Yes, it was a close shave.

 

Brian R

[br2975]

I visited the NCB Pontardulais - Graig Merthyr Colliery system three times over the years, and have NO decent photos.

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My first trip entailed the first Western Welsh bus from Cardiff - Swansea, then another bus to Gorseinon, walking from there to Pontardulais, via Brynlliw Colliery. I couldn't work out why it was so quiet ....... it was 'stop fortnight' and averyone was on holiday, and both pits were idle !

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I returned later the same year, in heavy drizzle and mist.

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I tried an 'arty farty' shot (tried, the operative word) of 'Norma' 0-6-0ST HE 3770/1952 storming past Pontardulais engine shed and crossing the A48 bound with empties for Graig Merthyr.

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'Norma' had come from the Maesteg system a few years earlier, when it had been dieselised. She was later preserved at Oswestry, and stripped doen under restoration.

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Although I have no decent photos, I do have memories, of Hunslet and Bagnall 18" tanks blasting toward Graig Merthyr, then slowing and crawling around the fierce curve at Goppa (or Banc-y-Bo).

 

Brian.

[Adam]

As an attempt at 'arty' I don't think that's so bad, given the weather at Pontardulais or Graig Merthyr seems never to have been conducive to photography, but look at that track, almost upside-down fishbelly rail with all those dipped joints! One of those things which just doesn't work in model form unfortunately. Thanks for sharing these.

 

Adam

[br2975]

................ but look at that track, almost upside-down fishbelly rail with all those dipped joints! One of those things which just doesn't work in model form unfortunately.

 

And what about the point rodding, just look at it.

 

There was a trap/catch point here, with a signal as well, to protect the crossing gates.

 

Brian R

[hmrspaul]

Not too bad thanks Bri - still unemployed but it's given me some modelling time. Every cloud and all that, I guess.

 

Here's one little nugget that I've come across recently after a tip off from Hywel T - the Henry Morris Baltic Oil Works down on Portland Street in Newport. Not an industrial railway I'll admit, but a rail-served industry. I've had my eye on modelling one or two of their small fleet of six wagons for Roath for a while, but I'd never really got anywhere with the project as I didn't have any dimensions or drawings for the tanks to go from. After a quick email to Hywel to see if he had anything he not only gave me everytihng in his records but told me the wagons are still in existance - they're even viewable on GoogleEarth! I think a road trip is in order at somepoint to take some measurements... maybe I'll try to tie it in with SWAG meet?

 

 

 

Pix

I have posted my photographs of the Henry Morris tanks at "Henry Morris & LP Tank wagons Baltic Oil" (C#1943295) – 19 photographs

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1943295.html

- note that much longer ago I posted APOC 1581 = LP120 twin tank of 1927 in detail – 18 photographs

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c454904.html

Interesting to learn the tanks appear to still be there. I would expect the twin tank to be of interest to conservationists - although it has been suggested it was unique (it is the one illustrated when new in Tourret's books as well as elsewhere.

 

Paul Bartlett

[br2975]

Paul,

 

Whilst I have you, (?) are you able to shed your expert light on these conversions, which appear to have been carried out on behalf of the NCB in the early 1970s.

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I have read elsewhere that they are built on former tank wagon undeframes.

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Whilst having the look of a 21 tonner about them, in height, they appear to be the same as a 16 tonner, possibly in order to fit a tippler at Abercwmboi ?

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Judging by the number series, there appear to have been in excess of one hundred.

 

Some were later redeployed to other South Wales NCB sites e.g. Cwm Colliery/Coke Works at Beddau.

 

Thanks

 

Brian

[hmrspaul]

Paul,

 

Whilst I have you, (?) are you able to shed your expert light on these conversions, which appear to have been carried out on behalf of the NCB in the early 1970s.

.

I have read elsewhere that they are built on former tank wagon undeframes.

.

Whilst having the look of a 21 tonner about them, in height, they appear to be the same as a 16 tonner, possibly in order to fit a tippler at Abercwmboi ?

.

Judging by the number series, there appear to have been in excess of one hundred.

 

Some were later redeployed to other South Wales NCB sites e.g. Cwm Colliery/Coke Works at Beddau.

 

Thanks

 

Brian

Brian

 

I don't know about details. I have photographs of the various rebuildings that went on in South Wales. Yes, many were on the steel frames from tank wagons. They often have the signs of rivetting of the strapping which held the barrels to the frames on the solebars - and sometimes retained their registration plates. In contrast there were relatively few steel framed RCH private owner mineral wagons, so less underframes available.

 

NCB wagons had fleet lettering that related to their home colliery - I have never seen a list of these but I GUESS 'MA' was Maesteg.

 

Whole different hobby understanding the NCB fleet, there must have been tens of thousands of wagons.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Adam]

NCB wagons had fleet lettering that related to their home colliery - I have never seen a list of these but I GUESS 'MA' was Maesteg.

 

Whole different hobby understanding the NCB fleet, there must have been tens of thousands of wagons.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

In context, MA is probably Mountain Ash, that's certainly what the background looks like. A nice photo that Brian, useful because clear views of those end doors have proven rather difficult for to find (I know of at least one other person who's had that problem, but I don't think that he's on here). So that's another scratch-building project to have a go at some time in the future.

 

Adam

[Pixie]

I have posted my photographs of the Henry Morris tanks at "Henry Morris & LP Tank wagons Baltic Oil"

 

Many thanks Paul, it's really appreciated. It would be nice to see the twin tank preserved, especially after making it this far. I'm thinking about heading down to Newport in the summer to give the four tankers a good coat of looking at, if I can fight part the jungle protecting them!

 

Thanks again,

 

Steve

[br2975]

NCB wagons had fleet lettering that related to their home colliery - I have never seen a list of these but I GUESS 'MA' was Maesteg.

 

Whole different hobby understanding the NCB fleet, there must have been tens of thousands of wagons.

 

 

Thanks Paul,

 

In this case the 'MA' does refer to Mountain Ash.

 

The wagon in question was stood outside the Mountain Ash wagon repair shops.

 

A Mountain Ash wagon was illustrated earlier, at Cwm.

 

The prefixes weren't as common in the South Wales area as they were in say Yorkshire, which in turn differed to the North-East, and again the North-West where the wagons may have had a colliery reference number/fleet number.

 

Standardisation appears to be something the NCB didn't spend too much time worrying over.

 

I recall that many NCB IU wagons in South Wales (especially those timber bodied) bore the occasional 'NCB' prefix and were numbered in the 7xxxx series.

 

But then there are exceptions to every 'rule'

 

Brian R

[Fat Controller]

Curious that they retained/were fitted with end doors, but not side ones. There weren't that many end-tipping arrangements away from the ports, as a rotary tippler was more convenient from an operating point-of-view. Also, a lot of NCB internal use wagons were used to transport coal to the 'land sales' yard, and so would need side doors.

('land sales' covered sales to the local merchants and also concessionary coal deliveries).

[br2975]

Curious that they retained/were fitted with end doors, but not side ones. There weren't that many end-tipping arrangements away from the ports, as a rotary tippler was more convenient from an operating point-of-view. Also, a lot of NCB internal use wagons were used to transport coal to the 'land sales' yard, and so would need side doors.

('land sales' covered sales to the local merchants and also concessionary coal deliveries).

 

Brian

 

These 'rebuilds' are unlike anything I've seen elsewhere in the NCB South Wales area, and I can only assume they were built that way, for a purpose.

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The 'land sales' yard at Mountain Ash was usually fed by BR 21 ton hoppers, my pic shows 'Llantanam Abbey'engaged there in the mid 70s.

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Brian R

[Mark Saunders]

Paul,

 

Whilst I have you, (?) are you able to shed your expert light on these conversions, which appear to have been carried out on behalf of the NCB in the early 1970s.

.

I have read elsewhere that they are built on former tank wagon undeframes.

.

Whilst having the look of a 21 tonner about them, in height, they appear to be the same as a 16 tonner, possibly in order to fit a tippler at Abercwmboi ?

.

Judging by the number series, there appear to have been in excess of one hundred.

 

Some were later redeployed to other South Wales NCB sites e.g. Cwm Colliery/Coke Works at Beddau.

 

Thanks

 

Brian

 

From known info these Mountain Ash wagons are on 21' 6" Over Headstocks and 12' Wheelbase chassis but what height?

 

Any idea?

 

At least the Cynheidre tippler that is preserved can be measured.

 

 

Mark Saunders

[Gordon A]

Mark,

This may sound a daft question but where is the Cynheidre tippler preserved?

Is it all together and in working order?

 

Gordon A

Bristol.

[br2975]

From known info these Mountain Ash wagons are on 21' 6" Over Headstocks and 12' Wheelbase chassis but what height?

 

Any idea?

 

Mark,

 

This picture, which appears on the second page of this thread shows a 'standard-ish' 16tonner with one of the Mountain Ash rebuilds to its' right.

 

The 'rebuild' appears to be slightly taller, but also appears slightly lower than a 21 tonner ?

 

Although both are Mountain Ash wagons, they were at cwm Colliery, Beddau when the photo was taken, during 'the strike'.

 

Brian

[br2975]

Today we have travelled back to 1979(ish) and are standing at the foot of Tynant Hill, Beddau looking toward Llantwit Fardre, at a point now known as 'Codger's Corner' opposite the turning into Cwm Colliery & Coke Works.

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It's about 3.30pm in the afternoon, and three Pontypridd UDC busses are taking local schoolkids home.

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However, we're interested in the Brush Bagnall 0-6-0DE No.2 (BBT3074/55) lifting a rake of empty MDV wagons from the exchange sidings toward the colliery. These had arrived earlier behind a Canton Cl.37 outstationed at Llantrisant.

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The landsale yard is behind the bushes on the right, and proved an excellent place to exercise my Border Collie 'Ninian' !

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At the time, there was a social club hidden behind the bridge, which, due to the Friday night dances held there, rejoiced locally in the name of 'the cracker factory' .

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Brian R

[Happy Hippo]

How many inhabitants of west Cardiff can still recall the air raid siren there, that sounded every morning just before 8.00am ?

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Brian R

 

Brian,

 

sorry to come in late on this one, but I do remember the siren being sounded at Grangetown Gasworks at various times during the day; I presume it was the call to work and lunchtimes.

 

I used to spend a lot of time down Ferry Road with my Grandfather, wandering around wagons at the Taff Wagon works and using the sleepers as stepping stones (I had only just started infants school) and this decaying industrial area was another world to me)and our outward trip would invariably end at the subway under the River Ely to Penarth Dock. The return trip was always via the 'Red House'. Britvic for me and a pint of Brains Dark for Grampy.

 

All gone now, just a sterile set of retail park buildings as part of the Cardiff Bay revival.

 

Regards

 

Richard

[br2975]

sorry to come in late on this one, but I do remember the siren being sounded at Grangetown Gasworks at various times during the day; I presume it was the call to work and lunchtimes.

 

I used to spend a lot of time down Ferry Road with my Grandfather, wandering around wagons at the Taff Wagon works and using the sleepers as stepping stones (I had only just started infants school) and this decaying industrial area was another world to me)and our outward trip would invariably end at the subway under the River Ely to Penarth Dock. The return trip was always via the 'Red House'. Britvic for me and a pint of Brains Dark for Grampy.

 

Richard,

 

My grandfather originally worked for the Cardiff Gas Light & Coke Co. opposite where the CIA is now, before moving down to Grangetown.

 

My gran told me, that during the blitz on Cardiff, January 1941, he stood on the top of one of the gasholders putting out incendiary bombs !!!

 

His view was, "if the holder went up, I wouldn't know " - we used to go the gasworks sports day, on "The Marl".

 

I can remember the Taff Wagon Works, which together with the oil terminal were the last two 'sidings' on the Ferry Road Branch.

 

As the area was being cleared I went down the old Victoria Wharf and found an overgrown LNER 6 wheeled parcel van underframe, and a rail mounted crane.

 

Somewhere at the top of Ferry Road, near Bill Way's was another scrapyard, 'Western Metals' and they cut up the electric loco from Newport Road (or Roath) power station, and also the battery loco used by Cardiff Corporation to shunt the Glamorganshire Canal Railway along Dumballs Road.

 

The Gas Works had a couple of shunters as well.

 

As you say, all gone now - but it lives on in our hearts and heads.

 

Brian

[Happy Hippo]

Richard,

 

My grandfather originally worked for the Cardiff Gas Light & Coke Co. opposite where the CIA is now, before moving down to Grangetown.

 

My gran told me, that during the blitz on Cardiff, January 1941, he stood on the top of one of the gasholders putting out incendiary bombs !!!

 

His view was, "if the holder went up, I wouldn't know " - we used to go the gasworks sports day, on "The Marl".

 

The Gas Works had a couple of shunters as well.

 

As you say, all gone now - but it lives on in our hearts and heads.

 

Brian

 

Brian,

 

Just going off topic for a tad.....

 

 

It is a small world that just got a little smaller!

 

My Grandparents lived in Clive Street, separated from the gasworks by the Ferry road Branch. In January 1941, my Grandfather, who was also a firewatcher, was burned putting out an incendiary bomb which had dropped through the roof and into the stairwell. It was probably the same raid, and at the time they could have been separated by less than 100 yds.

 

Regards

 

Richard

[Happy Hippo]

Brian,

 

Having got off track with the ramblings of Grangetown Gasworks, I was interested to see the photo of the Cwm colliery pictures at Beddau. I am very keen to find out a bit more about the operations both at Cwm and at Creigau quarry. I'm currently planning a layout using the track plan of Common Branch Junction as it was in late GW early BR days. I seem to recall in another thread that the quarry workings were mentioned going up from Waterhall Junction until 1964, but after that I presume the quarry was served as a long siding from CBJ.

 

A lot of presumtion here, because I assume that after the major rationalisation of the area in 1964, both Cwm and Creigau would have been served from Llantrisant via CBJ. Did CBJ retain it's signal box or did it become part of a long siding from Llantrisant with the CBJ loop worked by handlevers and the quarry being just another siding (kickback) at CBJ.

 

Now here comes the industrial bit/query:

 

Did Creigau quarry have any internal industrial motive power?

If so, did it push stuff up as far as the loop at CBJ?

Or, did they take the loop out at CBJ and push all the way to Cwm where the trains could run around?

How far out of Cwm did the industrial stuff operate.....down as far as CBJ? (Not if there wasn't a loop there?)

 

I'm sorry about the Spanish Inquisition above. I've only recently realised what a wealth of secondary railways there were in the Llantrisant area and I'm captivated by them and fascinated by the operations around CBJ. However, I'm coming up with very little information, I've only found two pictures of CBJ so far, and nothing on Creigau Quarry. your picture of the Cwm operation was the first I've seen.

 

I'm trying to get a copy of Rails around Llantrisant, which may shed some more light on the operations in the area, but I'm not holding out too much hope as I've bought books before which fall short in their content.

 

Since I lived in the Cardiff area until I was nineteen, it only goes to show that I should have spent more time on my bike getting around these more isolated areas rather than spending hours in the various signal boxes along the TVR Main line.

 

We are all blessed with hindsight

 

Regards

 

Richard

[br2975]

Brian,

 

Having got off track with the ramblings of Grangetown Gasworks, I was interested to see the photo of the Cwm colliery pictures at Beddau. I am very keen to find out a bit more about the operations both at Cwm and at Creigau quarry. I'm currently planning a layout using the track plan of Common Branch Junction as it was in late GW early BR days. I seem to recall in another thread that the quarry workings were mentioned going up from Waterhall Junction until 1964, but after that I presume the quarry was served as a long siding from CBJ.

 

A lot of presumtion here, because I assume that after the major rationalisation of the area in 1964, both Cwm and Creigau would have been served from Llantrisant via CBJ. Did CBJ retain it's signal box or did it become part of a long siding from Llantrisant with the CBJ loop worked by handlevers and the quarry being just another siding (kickback) at CBJ.

 

Now here comes the industrial bit/query:

 

Did Creigau quarry have any internal industrial motive power?

If so, did it push stuff up as far as the loop at CBJ?

Or, did they take the loop out at CBJ and push all the way to Cwm where the trains could run around?

How far out of Cwm did the industrial stuff operate.....down as far as CBJ? (Not if there wasn't a loop there?)

 

I'm sorry about the Spanish Inquisition above. I've only recently realised what a wealth of secondary railways there were in the Llantrisant area and I'm captivated by them and fascinated by the operations around CBJ. However, I'm coming up with very little information, I've only found two pictures of CBJ so far, and nothing on Creigau Quarry. your picture of the Cwm operation was the first I've seen.

 

I'm trying to get a copy of Rails around Llantrisant, which may shed some more light on the operations in the area, but I'm not holding out too much hope as I've bought books before which fall short in their content.

 

Since I lived in the Cardiff area until I was nineteen, it only goes to show that I should have spent more time on my bike getting around these more isolated areas rather than spending hours in the various signal boxes along the TVR Main line.

 

 

Richard

 

I was brought up two fields away from the Llantrisant No.1 Branch, about a mile from Waterhall Jct. and would watch the 'infrequent' daily train from our living room window (it was a council flat, so we had a living room, NOT a lounge !).

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I'm in work at the moment, but will respond in detail later.

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Brian

[hmrspaul]

Brian,

 

 

A lot of presumtion here, because I assume that after the major rationalisation of the area in 1964, both Cwm and Creigau would have been served from Llantrisant via CBJ. Did CBJ retain it's signal box or did it become part of a long siding from Llantrisant with the CBJ loop worked by handlevers and the quarry being just another siding (kickback) at CBJ.

 

When we visited Cwm Coke works in April 1987 they were using American coal. I remember they commented that the shipping costs from America to the docks was less per ton than BR charged for lifting the coal to the works.

 

A couple of their tank wagons http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p466541.html and alongside.

 

Paul Bartlett

[hmrspaul]

Dear all

 

Encouraged by this thread I have posted photographs from Cynheidre in my fotopic collections.

 

General views, locomotives, narrow gauge rolling stock etc at

"Cynheidre Colliery in April 1987 - locos, mine tubs" – 28 photographs

http://paulbartlettsotherrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/c1944900.html

 

And photographs of the internal user mineral wagons at

"Cynheidre colliery internal user mineral wagons" – 29 photographs

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1944906.html

 

There have been some CY wagons on the site for some time, in

"BR 16t Mineral welded diag 1/108 & 117 unfitted Industrials" – 104 photographs

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1558744.html

 

You will see that on the day we visited MDVs were being used for all BR traffic.

 

By the way, simply googling the names of the collieries comes up with masses of information about them.

 

Paul Bartlett