Exhibition behaviour (again!)

[PGN]

I was at an exhibition at the weekend, parting with my hard-earned cash. But in between visits to the stands that sold things, I tried to view all of the layouts on display as well. Two things in particualr struck me about the behaviour of my fellow exhibition goers.

 

1. There has in recent years been a marked increase in behaviour which interferes with others' ability to view the layout: leaning forward over the barrier so all your neighbour can see is your head; pointing things out (usually while commenting loudly on them) by reaching forward to point at them so all that other people can see is your hand; holding cameras out over the layout. All of these are extremely inconsiderate, and make it very difficult for other people to view the layout. Why do people think it is acceptable behaviour. I am very tempted, at the next exhibition I go to, to hold my hand close in front of the eyes of anybody who does any of these things and explain that I'll stop obstructing his view when he stops obstructing other people's view. But I fear I might get hit ... and the people who do this sort of thing are almost invariably bigger than me!

 

2. In similar vein, I have noticed an increase in the number of people who do not move away from a layout when they have finished viewing it, but continue to stand in the prime viewing position while facing AWAY from the layout and chatting to somebody else about something else altogether. Again, why? Surely these people know how difficult it is to get a decent viewing spot. I don't begrudge them the spot while they are viewing the layout. But once they've had their fill and no longer wish to view it, please just give up the spot and let somebody else make use of it.

 

Both of these points, it seems ot me, are matters of such elementary basic consideration for others that I find it hard to understand how, in a tolerant hobby such as ours, there are so many people who don't seem able to work them out for themselves.

[James]

May I add number 3? Saying 'Excuse me' doesn't entitle you to push others out of the way!

 

Sadly you will idiots everywhere in life - this is one reason why I think shows like Scalefour North really suit me, they're much more laid back than many larger shows.

[Kenton]

I think I can only admit guilty as charged on one account - leaning on barriers.

 

Usually I need the support after waiting so long to get to the front or the barrier is so far back and the layout far too low I need to get in focal range of my glasses

 

I sometimes I think the organisers could do things better by arranging stands a bit differently. Some trade and some layouts generate bigger queues than others.

 

A great deal of politeness went out the window when digital cameras and camera phones vame in. Folk shoving a mobile phone up your nostril is now not uncommon.

[hayfield]

Sadly peoples selfish behaviour is also bad elsewhere.

 

A Golf course is where etiquette and good manners are supposed to reign supreme. Younger men racing about on buggies on hot summer afternoons, slow play, lack of consideration of other players on the course, I could go on.

 

Society sadly has become more selfish.

[Brinkly]

I must admit that I do agree with the points raised above, it is really annoying, in particular the standing by the layout and not moving when one has had enough that does bug me.

 

One point I would say regarding photography; I try really hard not to take photographs of layouts until the end of the show if there are a number of people watching the trains go by, sometimes there is a lull during the day and I might take some photos then, but I do check quickly to see whether anyone is else is looking or taking their own photos so as not to end up with my camera in the way. Sometimes I do bring a camera stand to the show and most people are really good at moving if you hold the camera stand in your hand and I say thanks very much, take the photo(s) as quickly as possible and get out of the way! Also the flash from the camera is always switched off to make sure that I don't blind the operator(s)!

 

Regards,

 

Nick.

[Free At Last]

Sadly peoples selfish behaviour is also bad elsewhere.

 

Standing up at a concert in a seated arena is one that gets up my nose. I don't go to any now because of this. Why stand when you can sit and have paid for a seat.

People standing in doorways talking while others are trying to go through is another one. I shouldn't have to ask "excuse me", they shouldn't be there.

[Horsetan]

"Hell is other people" (Jean-Paul Sartre)

[298]

There seems to be more "Man bag" shoulder bags in use, rather than rucksacks with sharpened flexitrack sticking out so the message does seem to be getting through.

 

Regarding photography at exhibitions, i've never really seen the point in numerous punters trying to grab their individual shots in poorly lit halls and non-stop action when most good layouts have a gallery on the web somewhere. In fact i'd rather see one taboo in action, a magazine or professional photographer shooting a layout during a quiet spell, rather than punters (especially when they don't ask permission first).

[Kris]

As to people talking to others whilst next to the layout but not watching it, is this worse than standing in the middle of an aisle blocking it to all to talk to someone?

[AndrewC]

This is somewhat of a pet peeve of mine. I have noticed that it only seems to be the self professed enthusiasts that behave this way. I'm spending more time behind layouts these days as an operator and it gives one a good insite to behaviour. Not all enthusiasts are bad just a certain block of stereotypical anorak types. It tends to be the 40-65 range that are lacking in social graces. (I won't start with hygene again) The young un's for all the scorn poured on them by the media are far more civilised than their elders. The more 'serious' or specialised visitor is better behaved.

 

People taking pics: usually its the younger person or the family type that will ask or say 'do you mind if I use a flash?' They will also usually say thank you as well. The anorak will just barge his way in front and have the attitude of 'I paid my entry and I'll bloody do what I like'.

 

People pushing their way into a good viewing spot, then standing there having a conversation while ignoring the layout: again usually the anorak as opposed to the casual visitor. The mum's and dads will also usually move to the side of the layout when chatting to an operator or other visitor.

 

Interrupting or barging into a conversation between a guest and operator: the casual visitor will generally wait to ask a question and will be polite. The anorak will usually interrupt and be rather abrupt if they don't get an immediate reply to their liking.

 

SWMBO drags me around flower shows on a regular basis. Its the same there. So called 'enthusiasts' are the worst behaved.

[moorlander]

I appreciate that people have paid their money to see layouts when going to exhibitions.But I often feel that the younger generation do not get a look in around layouts as much as they should.

They are the future lifeblood of the hobby they need encouragement, not to be pushed away when observing layouts.

 

I used to take a digicam to take some footage of the layouts. I quickly realised that it is impossible when you get trampled on , pushed and shoved about like been in a rugby scrum.

[Boris]

I had some fun at Donny a few years ago, I was in the fortunate position of having relatively recently recently released from hospital after a nasty car accident, and after a load of morphine and other addictive stuff they gave me was having horrendous withdrawl symtoms. I was also walking round with 3 broken ribs on one side, which were not helped when one rather small (and smelly) individual quite literally barged to the front (complete with medium sized Bergen rucksack) elbowing in the broken ribs in the process. Having a curse to myself I wandered off to look at another layout, 5 minutes later, same thing, same bloke, this time he actually got a sharp intake of breath and a couple of rude words, so, off I goes to have a sit down/recover, dinner and to fill myself with painkillers so I could see the rest of the show.

 

After standing in the restaurant line for ages, I had a decent meal and pottered off back downstairs to look at another layout, and blow me, the same bloke does the same thing a THIRD time! This time he gets a loud yell and some impressive expletives, he turns round and remonstrates with me as apparently this is the 2nd time I had sworn at him when he was looking at layout he had paid to see. So I showed him the bruises ans stitches on my chest, explained that he had elbowed me there 3 times and if he didn't £$&^%$^$% (go forth and multiply), I was going to (create a new orifice for the sun not to shine on). Tell you what, he didn't half naff off quick, but being 6'+ and solidly built has a couple of advantages.

 

See, pillocks have been around for a while, what do they keep in those rucksacks anyway?

[fozzy280472]

I started going back to exhibitions over the last couple of years and can honestly say the attitude of the exhibitors is generally fantastic, answering questions etc , i have noticed however the poor behaviour/manners of some of the ,how can i put it, weirder members of the enthusiast movement , my young daughter was shoved out of the way by one of these clowns at a local exhibition we attended.

A swift comment along the lines of , "one more shove and you will find yourself shoved across the bl00dy hall by me" sorted it out !!!!

 

On a more serious note i recomended a work colleague take his young son to visit a preserved railway for the day and had some photographers yell at his boy to "get the f.....k out of the way. Needless to say some words were had by my friend to these guys [he is an ex marine] ,but the real problem lies in the fact my friend said " never again" to another visit.

These morons are costing the lines not only cash but the chance to get youngsters interested in the railway scene.

They really are causing some problems with these stupid antics..........................................

 

regards

Paul

[KevinWalsh]

On the flip side of this particular coin, it brings a warm fuzzy feeling to me when I hear a kid asking the operators via mum and dad if they can be allowed to see the back of the layout so they can understand the whole operation. Surprisingly it's more often the girls that ask for this than the boys. If the anoraks can be beaten back with a sh&&*y stick for long enough for the young ones to get a good look in, then I think the future of the hobby is looking secure.

 

Just my humble opinion of course.

[Huw Griffiths]

Regarding photography at exhibitions, I've never really seen the point in numerous punters trying to grab their individual shots in poorly lit halls and non-stop action when most good layouts have a gallery on the web somewhere. In fact I'd rather see one taboo in action, a magazine or professional photographer shooting a layout during a quiet spell, rather than punters (especially when they don't ask permission first).

 

I also like to see "pro" / magazine photographers in action at shows - it's amazing how much people like us can learn, just by watching them. (Of course, we're always careful not to get in their way!)

 

 

I was also walking round with 3 broken ribs on one side, which were not helped when one rather small (and smelly) individual quite literally barged to the front (complete with medium sized Bergen rucksack) elbowing in the broken ribs in the process. Having a curse to myself I wandered off to look at another layout, 5 minutes later, same thing, same bloke, this time he actually got a sharp intake of breath and a couple of rude words, so, off I goes to have a sit down/recover, dinner and to fill myself with painkillers so I could see the rest of the show.

 

... I had a decent meal and pottered off back downstairs to look at another layout, and blow me, the same bloke does the same thing a THIRD time! This time he gets a loud yell and some impressive expletives, he turns round and remonstrates with me as apparently this is the 2nd time I had sworn at him when he was looking at layout he had paid to see. So I showed him the bruises and stitches on my chest, explained that he had elbowed me there 3 times and if he didn't £$&^%$^$% (go forth and multiply), I was going to (create a new orifice for the sun not to shine on). Tell you what, he didn't half naff off quick, but being 6'+ and solidly built has a couple of advantages.

 

... as would the Totectors I needed to wear in my last job (never actually used in anger - like you, I always go out of my way to avoid "baseball bat diplomacy").

 

It's strange how this waster didn't want to understand that you'd also paid to see all these layouts - preferably without being repeatedly subjected to assault (and quite possibly actual bodily harm). You had no choice - you needed to do something to sort him out - and he clearly only understood one "language". With all you'd been through, I doubt if many people would have been able to show anything like as much restraint as you.

 

 

Unfortunately, offensive behaviour and attitudes seem to pervade all areas of life. I used to work as a lab technician in a university (somewhere you wouldn't normally expect trouble) - and I encountered thousands of students. Just like exhibition visitors, the vast majority were great - a tiny minority were not. One such "gentleman" marched into my office (when he knew I had a mountain of lab test specimens to prepare) - demanded that I drop everything, to deal with HIS work (which could easily wait - and which he was actually supposed to do himself) - and started making verbal threats when I failed to instantly comply.

 

My response was simple. I swung round in my chair, to face him in the eye - and calmly made a number of factual statements: "The door's that way. You're about to go through it. You might wish to open it first." As he finally took the hint - and moved towards the door, I also informed him that I did not wish to see or hear from him again until he'd learnt to behave in a civilised manner.

 

Half an hour later, he returned shamefaced and wanting to apologise - so I made him wait a few minutes, before I abruptly summoned him into my office. Strangely enough, I never got another moment's nonsense from him.

 

 

Returning to the "rucksack warriors" at exhibitions, do you really want to know what they keep in their rucksacks? I'm not sure I do.

 

I've never even seen the point of the things - if I were going anywhere I didn't know everyone around me, I really wouldn't want any of my possessions anywhere I couldn't see them. There's also the fact that (with me being 6 feet tall), I'd be terrified that one of these things over my shoulders could smack into someone's face or chest. It isn't hard to see why I've never had a rucksack - and I've never wanted one.

 

At exhibitions (whether model railway or electronics / instrumentation) I'll continue to use a canvas holdall - and (like always) be careful about where I put it. My last job included some Health & Safety enforcement - so I'm not likely to go and cause an accident!

 

 

Anyway, I've got no wish to hijack this thread (or any other). I think I've said enough.

 

Regards,

 

Huw.

[Horsetan]

I find that coming into a show smelling of horse can have its advantages.....

[PGN]

Agree with you there, Kevin.

 

At the same exhibition, I was viewing a layout with a river (one of the many ...) and a very well behaved child of about 9 very quietly asked his accompanying adult how they made the water. Accompanying adult said they thought it might be done with varnish, but they couldn't be certain. There was a big sign by the layout saying that the operators welcomed questions, so I pointed it out and said "You could always ask one of the operators - I'm sure they will know for certain".

 

Result - a very helpful conversation between operator and child; and one child with a very positive view of exhibitions as places where you get your questions answered (I hope ... )

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Sadly you will idiots everywhere in life - this is one reason why I think shows like Scalefour North really suit me, they're much more laid back than many larger shows.

 

Its very true on both counts, tho' when I lived in England and tried to get to the Manchester and Wigan shows even though they were classed as 'serious' shows you still seemed to encounter the 'muppets' - I certainly enjoyed events like EM North and the RMWEB member days for the 'like mindedness' of people attending, makes for a much more enjoyable event. I would have probably stopped going to 'big' shows anyway- and don't miss them now my location means it is fairly impractical to get to ANY exhibitions!

[bluebottle]

Regarding photography at exhibitions, i've never really seen the point in numerous punters trying to grab their individual shots in poorly lit halls and non-stop action when most good layouts have a gallery on the web somewhere. In fact i'd rather see one taboo in action, a magazine or professional photographer shooting a layout during a quiet spell, rather than punters (especially when they don't ask permission first).

I quite agree that there doesn't seem to be much point in taking the same pictures that have already appeared on the web or in magazines: I usually carry a very small camera as a notebook to capture useful ideas that I might be able to copy or adapt for my own use. Then it's ask permission, wait for a space, take and check the picture quickly, get out of others people's way (especially children). As the picture quality doesn't matter too much in a record shot, there's no need for flash, either. I sometimes get some funny looks from some punters though, when after the operator has kindly offered to pose any item of rolling stock I might be interested in I say no, thanks, and proceed to take snaps of the fiddle yard cassettes...

[Boris]

I quite often take a camera to exhibitions for the sole purpose of photographing either a)an item of stock I would like to replicate or B) to record an interesting layout feature for future referance, but it's only my crap fire and forget, and I try to ask permission first.

[PGN]

For the record, I've no problem with people taking photos of layouts if the operators are happy for photos to be taken.

 

My gripe is with them being so inconsiderate as to do it at a time and in a manner that they spoil other people's view / enjoyment of the layout. After all, the operator's consent is only consent to the taking of photographs. To do it in a manner that interferes with other people's enjoyment of the payout must surely require that first the photographer seek - and obtain - the other viewers' consent too.

[Russ (mines a pint)]

I quite often take a camera to exhibitions for the sole purpose of photographing either a)an item of stock I would like to replicate or B) to record an interesting layout feature for future referance, but it's only my crap fire and forget, and I try to ask permission first.

If I see a layout I would like to take trackplan inspiration from I just try usually get an 'overall' view- I've given up asking for permission as the exhibitor will usually ask if you would like (a particular loco, posed in a particular spot) which I think inconveniences both the operators and the viewing public - when all I want is a shot of the track plan!! - so now just usually turn the flash off & hide

[Shamouti Ben Yafo]

I find that coming into a show smelling of horse can have its advantages.....

 

What?? You really are a horse? Oh brave new world that has such beings in it...

 

Now, now - no need for the long face. Oh wait - yes there is - you're a horse...

[woodenhead]

Our hobby does attract a lot of people on the autistic spectrum, a spectrum that is very wide so comes in many forms and presents in many ways. Whilst many sufferers understand acceptable behaviour a good percentage do not and it is not because they are rude or unwilling to change but because it is how they are wired.

 

Not all the people mentioned in this thread will be sufferers nor will being autistic automatically make someone appear rude but it should be remembered when posting here that some of the types of people you are referring to may not actually be aware that what to them is perfectly OK is not OK for others.

 

My wife works with children with developmental needs and from her I have learnt what happens as people transition through childhood and into adulthood. To say it has opened my eyes is an understatement and I look on people in a completely different way now so when someone does something to upset me I do think to myself can they actually help what they are doing.

[PGN]

Fair point well made, Woodenhead ...