Byker Gate 7mm BR (NE) Suburban Station Junction

[Nortonian]

Well as I voiced my opinions on this challenge, the very least I can do is give it a go !.

 

First up I would like to thank Andy for allowing the fiddle yard boards, as outside the floor area. In 7mm, this really does make all the difference although, what I hope to build, will be nothing more than a glimpse of a railway environment hence, `A Diorama`.

 

I am not going to say too much at present as the final plans have yet to be quantified and checked for `fit of size`. I have a number of ideas for both the challenge design and the connections with the number 5. To be honest, this latter item will probably take the form of scratchbuilding five new engines, so expect new threads to start soon, one of which is a B1.

 

So it will be 7mm with a mix of 31.25 and 32mm track (32mm on the curves), to keep it looking tight and clean.

Location will be early-mid 50`s Northeastern BR. A clue here will be plenty of Tangerine station signs.

The boards will be open framed and wedge shaped to use the maximum amount of space.

 

As yet, I have no stock, and no engines for this challenge, so everything will have to built in the next eleven and a half months. I will document as much as possible on separate threads and eventually all of course will be brought together here as a whole.

 

To keep folk interested, I do not intend to show a trackplan until I absolutely have to, ie, need to do so, to bring it all together. So, expect threads on loco`s, stock, track and eventually buildings just to tease.

 

All my previous efforts have been cut short due to house moves, change of scale, family circumstances and of course work, so this is a challenge to me, to build something and get it finished, or as near as damn it !.

 

I will probably join a `not too local` club soon as they are looking for O gauge modellers amongst their ranks, so I hope they will be of use in directing me to suppliers of parts I have never needed before. I suspect that I will be asking the membership here more than anywhere else though. Does anyone know who makes a 7mm telephone box ?.

 

In the cupboard, I have four wagon kits not started. I suspect I`ll need about another thirty more. Plenty of track components though. Coaching stock, ziltch !.

 

Anyway, I`ll post more as we go along and being only the second 7mm layout on the challenge so far, I hope there are others as the rules have been adapted with them in mind , so come on guys!.

 

Can I do this ?, I`ve got to now, I`ve said I will. Gulp !

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Burkitt]

Does anyone know who makes a 7mm telephone box ?

 

Langley models do one - http://www.langley-models.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_O_Scale_Accessories_78.html

 

Paul

[Nortonian]

Langley models do one - http://www.langley-m...ssories_78.html

 

Paul

 

Thankyou Paul,

 

Having only built O gauge loco`s for the last twenty years, I don`t know who makes what these days. Should be fun finding all these things out.

 

Kindest

 

Ian

[Nortonian]

To add a little more info, I have been shuffling point templates around on a 6`x2` board knowing I have a further 2`x 11 3/4" to play with. My initial thoughts of a wedge shape, will be more like a taper I suspect.

 

I can now tell you that it will definitely take the form of a station, with a goods avoiding line and an entry/exit line to a shed. There will be a lot of track. I have a load of steel rail which will form the basis of the diorama trackwork, then flexitrack in nickel for the rest meaning the fiddle yards.

 

Fiddle yards have the option to become `the rest of the layout` as a roundy roundy. This would add far more operating potential for the future, but I have nowhere to keep it once complete, so I suspect after the competition ends, this will end up in a skip.

 

Of the confirmed loco`s to be built, I can add a J72, G5 and J27 to the list with the B1. A pacific ,V2 or L1 will make the 5th member of the list.

 

Now, does anyone have any thoughts on which is the best 21T hopper kit ?. I know Parkside do them, but does anyone make them in brass at all ?.

 

Kindest

 

Ian

[Nortonian]

I am sure you chaps that build layouts regularly will already know this, and I guess I should of known better from my previous work days. I went down to my local `Big Orange DIY` house yesterday to buy some 18x100mm timber for the open framework of the boards. I got two 2m packs, opened them and then had to go out for the evening and overnight. Come back this morning to find all the pieces like propellers.

 

Now I was hoping my layout building would take off in a big way, but not quite literally. If use this timber, then the flat boards will end up like a `Quaver` no doubt, so I guess its a trip down to my local `Real Timber suppliers` to buy wood that has been seasoned fully and only partly kiln dried.

 

Firewood anyone ?.

 

Ian

[The Stationmaster]

I am sure you chaps that build layouts regularly will already know this, and I guess I should of known better from my previous work days. I went down to my local `Big Orange DIY` house yesterday to buy some 18x100mm timber for the open framework of the boards. I got two 2m packs, opened them and then had to go out for the evening and overnight. Come back this morning to find all the pieces like propellers.

 

Now I was hoping my layout building would take off in a big way, but not quite literally. If use this timber, then the flat boards will end up like a `Quaver` no doubt, so I guess its a trip down to my local `Real Timber suppliers` to buy wood that has been seasoned fully and only partly kiln dried.

 

Firewood anyone ?.

 

Ian

 

Nothing wrong with buying timber from the diy box shifters BUT you have to be very careful to select each piece as you go, and not buy in sealed packs unless you can be absolutely sure it's ok - something I long ago learnt by experience, now you have too alas.

 

But be very careful at timber merchants too - they will usually keep their best stuff for the fussier regulars so keep an eagle eye as they select stuff for you - or better still select it for yourself. And 'seasoned' - a joke, unless you are prepared to pay a small fortune the chances of getting seasoned softwood are minimal to say the least altho' you might find kiln dried. The reason is they shift material as quickly as they can and their timber comes from the same importers etc as the stuff that goes to the box shifters - they just 'package' it in a different way.

[Pinkmouse]

Yup, always hand pick your timber. Or if you have the tools, or a timber yard that will cut for you, make up the braces from sheet material as well, even cheap 18mm shuttering grade ply ripped into 100mm widths is much more stable than softwood.

[shortliner]

Ah - yes, the Big Orange Shed wooden propeller syndrome - I NEVER buy it in packs, and usually get some very strange looks when I stand there taking all the lengths in the size I want out of the racks, laying them on the floor and then sorting out the straight ones - assuming there are any!

You need to be very careful about the flatness of sheet material too!

[bertiedog]

Yup, always hand pick your timber. Or if you have the tools, or a timber yard that will cut for you, make up the braces from sheet material as well, even cheap 18mm shuttering grade ply ripped into 100mm widths is much more stable than softwood.

 

Make sure that pre-sawn batten packs are opened , they hide the knots in the middle of the pre-paks deliberately, and look for "finger joints", they cut out bad bits and have multi-finger joints made on shapers to joint it, but it does weaken the wood.

 

To help with warping and movement of batten and edges it can pay to layer two strips into one of the size you need, the warps tend to cancel each other out. Glue and power screw the battens together, and belt sand to make the surface perfect. Such made up sections are about 70 to 80% stronger than a single piece if wood.

 

You are not going to be able to get stable pine or deal batten that is aged etc., these days without paying a fortune, but you can buy aged deal or pine planks and cut up on a band saw or a saw table into battens , again it may pay to assemble the require batten from back to back strips, which will remain stable and flat for years.

 

For super accurate beam battens across the layout width, you can make super stable and strong batten of say about 2 x2 inches from 6mm MDF sheet, cut into strips and made into a box member, this will stay straight forever, and it is 100% stronger than solid pine, and lighter as well.

 

With all MDF, use Rustin's MDF primer to waterproof it as well, worth the trouble, no warping at all. No need with ply, and even thin ply can also be stripped, and glued and screwed, and made into incredibly strong box section battens and beams, for under the layout and even legs etc.,

 

Stephen.

[The Stationmaster]

And when sawing mdf - especially if using any sort of power saw - try to do it outdoors and wear a mask; mdf dust is nasty stuff (also a good idea to subsequently seal the open edges of it as well, dilute pva is ideal if you have nothing else to hand).

[Nortonian]

Thankyou Gentlemen for your hints and tips.

 

My local timber merchant sells good quality redwood which I have used before without trouble, so this is the route I will take. I will put up some photo`s as and when I`m happy with the outcome.

 

Next question.

Trestles or folding legs ?.

 

Kindest

 

Ian

[Nortonian]

Well I have started the first of the locomotive build threads for this challenge. The offending item is an LNER J72 with a J71 alongside for the fun of it. You can find this thread in the Kit build and Scratch section.

 

Baseboard photo`s will be added here soon. Still need to find a suitable name for this layout yet !.

[7mm Mick]

DJH do a a couple of versions of the 21T hopper (welded and riveted) as part of there piercy range. Not sure what they 're like but they look good on the website, although they cost a bit more than the parkside ones. I fancy a couple myself but her indoors won't permit the funds Especially with the recent purchase of your Mk1. Which I might add she won't let me have and has put chritmas paper on it, at least I can do some kit bashing chritmas day Nevermind, I wear the trousers (She says I can!!)

 

Mick

[Nortonian]

Still need to find a suitable name for this layout yet !.

 

 

Bingo !.

 

As a pure stroke of coincidence, someone on the LNER yahoo group was asking for photo`s of Dunbar station. I checked the disused Stations site. They mentioned new updates for Byker station.

I followed the link and did some more research. Riverside Junction was at the point of Byker station as it left the mainline southwest of Heaton and `V` shaped which is what I have designed here. So, if this thread suddenly changes to include either of the two names mentioned here, then you know what its all about. 3rd rail too, but that`s not what`s planned. He said.

 

Ian

[Nortonian]

Well as per usual, something always throws a spanner in the works to hold you up. I have been unable to locate suitable photographs of the Newcastle J71`s so far and may have to adjust my choice of engines to suit.

However, rather than sit back, I will continue with the K1 build I started on the old forum. I am not carrying it over to here, but starting it again from the tender tank up first then go back to the chassis. Loco chassis after that.

Framework of the baseboards will appear next week, then we can build some track at last.

 

Ian

[Nortonian]

I had a successful trip to Wakefield show on Friday night, and bought a number of things for this layout challenge. Number one on the shopping list was a bottle of Butanone for all this track I have to make. So, a definite start will be made on this next week.

I am no further forward with the Newcastle J71`s but I picked up a couple of books at Blyth show on Saturday which helped me make an alternative choice of engines. This will mean some alterations to the J72 chassis already built. All this will be documented on the thread.

In my box of wheels, I found two sets of NER tender wheels so these will go towards a J27, or is that two ?. I like to get moving once I`ve started something so whilst I`m cutting out parts, I may as well cut out for the tenders also. Expect a J27 thread to start soon.

 

Off to the NRM today to take more photographs and hopefully pick one or two up, namely in books.

 

Ian

[Nortonian]

Hi,

 

I have now finally been able to get on with building the baseboards for the Scenic area.

As requested in the rules, I am able to give the final dimensions of the scenic part of the layout which is as follows.

The overall length of the boards is 90"x24" at one end, tapering to 20" at the other, equalling 1980"sq.

 

I made up a trackplan using 7mm templates in a straight line to get the overall length and find out just how much space I could get the trackwork reduced to. I include a photo of the templates stuck together, but this has been adjusted and altered, plus the mainline is not dead straight.

The track templates are just laid on a couple of sheets of chipboard to get the overall feel. This is not the boards themselves.

 

 

The baseboard joints have been calculated not to arrive at an awkward location,ie, below a point etc. So, the boards are not of equal length. To keep things square and straight, I have made the framework from two lengths of 96", 3x1". The two boards will be assembled as a 90" length and when satisfied that the trackwork and any other crucial joints are all in line, then I will cut the two lengths to release the boards as individuals.

Again, midway supports have been calculated not to be in the wrong place.

The basic framework.

You can see the two ends of the boards next to each other at the left hand side with a slight gap between them.

 

This next photo shows the lower track area between the shed and the goods bypass line. This is lower than the main running lines.

 

Next job is to add some 10mm beads on top of the framework to support the elevated area for the main running lines. These have been glued and pinned in place. This same scenario continues onto the left hand board also.

 

 

Right well that should give you a little idea as to how far I have got in-between building engines. I`m currently on with the J27 Tenders and will rotate the work to move onto the J71/2`s again next.

 

Kindest

 

Ian

[Nortonian]

Just a quick update for anyone interested.

 

I have now finished the framework and baseboards in their virgin state, ready to accept some cork underlay formed of floor tiles from Wickes. The slope off the mainline down to the avoiding line and shed road is complete and I am happy with the gentle fall. Two photo`s here to give you an idea of what its about.

 

This second low angle view will give you some clues to the fall of the trackwork bed. Cork tiles are next then some sleepering.

 

 

Ian

[7mm Mick]

Ian, things are coming on leaps and bounds, how do you find the time? What thinkness are the cork tiles you've purchased and what are your opinions of other 'cork substitutes' ? I always used cork in the past and found it good stuff but I see more and more people using foam etc. Will all the track be C+L construction or are you using pre formed peco any where? These questions may seem daft but i've not built any kind of layout in 7mm to speak of and if I don't get the foundations right it may all go belly up!!

 

thanks Mick

[Nortonian]

Hello Mick,

 

Now as you and Martyn 3Link are good friends, I will answer your question politely(as he asked the same off group), anybody else `Peco points ???`,wash your mouth out !.

 

No, as I said to you in an earlier post, I have been collecting metal sections for years, I have done the same with C&L track parts. There is a large bag of timbers, chairs and steel rail waiting to be unleashed. I am not even using flexitrack, except in the fiddle yards, all the track will be made using individual components. The reason behind this ?, well, it looks far better for a start, it allows some curvature in pointwork, and it means you can make your own combinations to suit your space.

There are only about 7 points on the board, plus catches. The cork tiles have the advantage of being already flat, instead of being on a roll and then having to hold it down whilst the glue goes off. They were purchased from Wickes as B&Q say they do not keep them any more. There are nine in a pack, so that`s an imperial sq yard, each tile being 12"sq. Strange in these metric times. 1/8" thick.

The tiles are cut to width and stuck down with PVA. The PVA is applied to the back of the tile, then placed in position and moved back and forth whilst under pressure to expel any air, as the glue dries, it creates a vacuum.

I managed to get the cork down for the lower line between the shed and the goods avoiding line last night, but I may not get chance to do any more until Monday now, we`ll see.

 

Are you considering entering the challenge ?. At this rate I should be finished well within timescale, so who knows, I have another idea up my sleeve ??????

 

 

Kindest

 

Ian

[7mm Mick]

Hello Mick,

 

Now as you and Martyn 3Link are good friends, I will answer your question politely(as he asked the same off group), anybody else `Peco points ???`,wash your mouth out !.

 

No, as I said to you in an earlier post, I have been collecting metal sections for years, I have done the same with C&L track parts. There is a large bag of timbers, chairs and steel rail waiting to be unleashed. I am not even using flexitrack, except in the fiddle yards, all the track will be made using individual components. The reason behind this ?, well, it looks far better for a start, it allows some curvature in pointwork, and it means you can make your own combinations to suit your space.

There are only about 7 points on the board, plus catches. The cork tiles have the advantage of being already flat, instead of being on a roll and then having to hold it down whilst the glue goes off. They were purchased from Wickes as B&Q say they do not keep them any more. There are nine in a pack, so that`s an imperial sq yard, each tile being 12"sq. Strange in these metric times. 1/8" thick.

The tiles are cut to width and stuck down with PVA. The PVA is applied to the back of the tile, then placed in position and moved back and forth whilst under pressure to expel any air, as the glue dries, it creates a vacuum.

I managed to get the cork down for the lower line between the shed and the goods avoiding line last night, but I may not get chance to do any more until Monday now, we`ll see.

 

Are you considering entering the challenge ?. At this rate I should be finished well within timescale, so who knows, I have another idea up my sleeve ??????

 

 

Kindest

 

Ian

 

Ian, I should have put more detail in my first question as I have appear to have led you to believe that i'm a fan of peco points! I can assure you I am far from it, they're awful ( I mean for me personnaly ) and I would never entertain them being used I was meaning using peco for the straight runs of track to save time where its not seen too much etc. There's nothing like getting your eyes down to track level and seeing the lovely flowing curved runs of interlocking point work, which can only be acheived with C+L products. Are there advantages to using steel rail over nickel ?? Can't wait to see all of the cork down and the trackwork getting started. When the p-way starts to go down it really starts to come to life What pattern chairs are you using, I only ask as I've never researched this but seen the odd article on different chairs, LNER, BR etc...

 

Don't think i'll be entering the challenge unfortunatley i've all on to have a bit of time to build up stock with over time, babies and house renovations. Never fear, my time will come when SWMBO won't stop me and hopefully by then i'll have plenty stock to run.

 

Watching with anticipation Mick

[Nortonian]

Hello Mick,

 

I am using steel rail and the chairs that I have, ie three bolt, as that is what I have stocks of. I liked the look of the steel rail when I was modelling P4, and it is easy enough to solder using Carrs Black flux. You can rust the sides of the rails by coating with Birchwood Casey Gunblue then your up the chairs to match.

 

Its our NEGOM meeting this Friday, so I might just concentrate on the J72 to have something for the evening get together. So, if there is not much movement on here this week, you know why.

 

 

Kindest

 

Ian

[7mm Mick]

Hello Mick,

 

I am using steel rail and the chairs that I have, ie three bolt, as that is what I have stocks of. I liked the look of the steel rail when I was modelling P4, and it is easy enough to solder using Carrs Black flux. You can rust the sides of the rails by coating with Birchwood Casey Gunblue then your up the chairs to match.

 

Its our NEGOM meeting this Friday, so I might just concentrate on the J72 to have something for the evening get together. So, if there is not much movement on here this week, you know why.

 

 

Kindest

 

Ian

 

I see the thought process behind it now ( sorry for that outburst, i'm on a course at work with all this kind of waffle !! ) But I do see why you use it. Is it still readily avaliable from traders who supply C+L parts? It certainly seems an easy way of replicating rusty rails. Nothing looks better than rusty rails and chairs, oiled up fishplates and creosote/tar/oil soaked sleepers. can't wait to see the results. Thoroughly inspiring stuff

 

Mick

[LNERJP]

Links for steel rail here Mick

 

 

http://www.finescale.org.uk/

 

 

http://www.exactoscale.co.uk/

 

J.P.

 

 

[Nortonian]

Hi Mick,

 

A little more progress on the boards today as I managed to get some more cork underlay down. I have laid the double track section and the link to the avoiding line. I might start to lay some sleepers tonight whilst its a quiet job and undisturbing to those trying to sleep.

 

 

The cork is wider than required, but this allows for some flexibility in alignment. The excess will be trimmed and cut back as required. I`ve spent this evening cutting J71 parts, so expect some photo`s on that thread tomorrow.

 

Kindest

 

Ian.