bmthtrains - David Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Agreed. Makes my ideas about as much fun as a wet Sunday afternoon, in the winter, at a UK seaside town Lol! Well today is a wet afternoon in winter in a UK seaside town for me (as will much of the next 3 months be), so its nice to be warm inside with dreams of future layouts! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samkiller42 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 This looks pretty interesting, i like some of the ideas floating around, which makes for interesting reading. Will keep my eyes open on this one. Sam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Here's the revised plan - now slightly smaller, with the right hand end tidied up to better resemble the actual docklands area. I now have the DLR going over a second dock, with a building similar to the new billingsgate market on the far side. The tracks then jump over a dual carriage way (I seem to have one of these on every layout!), and then curve up to join a brick arch viaduct which would have been the 'original' line. At a lower level are the sidings for the cement works. This now has a better balance between the old and new sides of the docklands, and now borrows real locations and jumbles them up to fit the model. Buildings will be mostly based on real docklands landmarks, with a few extras thrown in for variety. Big challenges ahead: 1) DLR rolling stock! I am investigating whether it is possible to have an etched metal body made to modify my Modemo tram for this 2) Modelling tightly curved slab track with hung third rail pick up, all on a viaduct! 3) Modelling water - never tried this before! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted November 21, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2009 Hi David This is looking very interesting indeed! Just a thought: I like the new plan but is it a little too "square" - all the scenic elements appear to be perpendicular to the line. What about having the new dual carriageway at the right climbing up and over both the DLR line and the cement works, and curving off scene into the bottom left corner? This might help the cement works by making part of them seem "hidden", as so often happens in real urban settings. Having the DLR trains go under a bridge might also help disguise the slight "trainset oval" appearance of the trackplan. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Hi Ben, It has become more 'square', but the DLR is a bit trainset-like in reality, everything being perpendicular to the docks. I take your point though, and if there's room, I can get some height changes in the road in. My first though was to have it diving down, as into that underpass along there, but it could do the opposite and raise up and curve to the right so that the sidings emerge from underneath it. Certainly everything on the far right can then be slightly askew, at an angle to the rest of the structures. Would it help if I added back in the 'kink' in the DLR line as on the first plan? David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted November 21, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2009 Hi David The kink may help, but is there room? My thoughts about the dual carriageway going over the DLR were based on looking at your card mock up and imagining the three levels with the Schenker 66 at the bottom "peeping out", above it the DLR trains curving away beneath an impressive road overpass. I would assume that the dual carriageway is more of a recently built (well, post-DLR) flyover so it is on a gradient looping over the track... I take your point about the DLR looking pretty "trainset" like - looking at South Quay station for example there is a kink that could've been done with sectional track and I'm not convinced the line even uses transition curves... cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted November 22, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2009 I'm looking forward to following this. King George V would give you the 5, and it's just across from the Docklands Light Airport. It's also where the line goes into tunnel for Woolwich. If you want to be up to date you'll probably have to run 3 unit trains, and the stations will need to show signs of their recent platform extensions...... You also have the possibility of abandoned stations, Silvertown station, (taken today) is nearby. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 22, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2009 You also have the possibility of abandoned stations, Silvertown station, (taken today) is nearby. Dave Silvertown! Famous for its eponymous tramway, which always seemed to get special mentions in the BRB's dangerous Goods Booklet and Working Manual for Rail Staff etc. About 10 years ago I remember having a difficult time with colleagues installing CCTV on that platform - the need was to ensure the cameras covered each other so you could see film of whichever local scrote wanted to take them away! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 This looks set to be great little project - different and distinct 'DLR rolling stock! I am investigating whether it is possible to have an etched metal body made to modify my Modemo tram for this' That would be an interesting road-to-go. If you do I'll follow with great interest. Modelling tightly curved slab track with hung third rail pick up, all on a viaduct! That's going to be another interesting project in itself, and probably quite fiddly! From my few trips to Docklands a few years back, I seem to recall that around Canary Wharf you find items like old anchors and cranes displayed in proud fashion to mark the history of the area. Anyway, good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 The DLR units are articulated on three bogies, but the centre one is unpowered. For N, I'd perhaps look at Kato shorty, putting the 'powered bogie' (not a true motor bogie like the Farish of yore) in the middle where there are less windows, since the large glazed observation type ends are a feature. A second unpowered bogie would be needed, ideally also picking up. Thought on the '5' aspect - why not make the layout 5 foot by 5 decametres (500mm), perhaps the oddest 5 x 5 by far. I've got drawings of the original rolling stock and some stations tucked away somewhere as I was going to do the original Island Gardens in H0 many moons ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam '43003' Tanner Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Dave, I'm not sure if your aware of these couple of pages which detail the signalling on the DLR. http://www.railway-t...m/Sigdock.shtml http://www.xs4all.nl...dger/index1.htm (The latter is an unnofficial page on the DLR which includes other bit's and pieces including B Stock Details.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 Having been tweaking the layout design here and there, I've decided that there are two major things I need to do to get this project started (to make sure it is actually feasible, and also to kick start my enthusiasm!) - construct one of the buildings, and design the DLR rolling stock. On both these fronts I am going to have to experiment, and I am exploring the use of etches for both. I've commissioned Pete Harvey of our own parish to see if its possible to make an etched kit of a DLR unit, and also for help converting one of the building designs into reality. Each building will need different methods of construction depending on what the design calls for. For an all glass-front building, I can use printed OHP acetate, while plasticard will come in handy for buildings with 'textured' exteriors. The first building I need to tackle though is "5 Canada Dock", a scaled down version of 1 Canada Square, commonly referred to as Canary Wharf Tower. The design is below, and to get all those windows (about 360 of them!) cut out correctly, I'm going to see if a printed etch will work. The plan is to make a heavy card interior with floors, window detail printed onto OHP sheets, then the etched facia on the front. The pyramid at the top will be capped off with a blinky 'aircraft avoidence' light. Once I've seen if the etches are possible, I can make a start on the card interior. I may even leave the etches unpainted, as the real building has an exposed metal construction. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted December 3, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2009 I'll be interested to see this, as I live in Draftrots ( ) and travel the DLR regularly B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Hello David I dont know if its of any help but at Warley this year there was a N Gauge layout which had a shuttle type of train which ran on raised concrete plinths. I dont know the name of it but I am sure someone here will be able to tell you. I think it won the N Gauge trophy at the show, the one with the aircraft on it too. It might be worth contacting the builder to ask how he did it as its VERY similar to what you are doing. Missy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 A great project. I'm full of interest and admiration for it. Good luck. Building 'No1 Canada Square' scales out at 1.58 metres tall in 1:148 N gauge. To get some comparisons with others in London check out; http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?cityID=807 G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Some experimentation in constructing "5 Canada Dock", the tallest building on the layout, has lead me to make a small chunk of the model. There are various ways to make a big building, and its interesting watching Grahame's (far larger) tower blocks taking shape in his blog. My first attempt is to build the tower 'open' so you can see inside (it could even have interior lights this way), but this will only work providing the floors remain flat and provide enough stability to keep the shape rigid. The other, stronger way to build it, is to make a plain box with all the detail clad onto the exterior. What I have done so far is build 2 floor plates with a central core where the lift shafts would be to keep them up, and clad the front with OHP sheet for the window detail, and thin card for the exterior (this would probably be a metal etch eventually). Obviously, being able to view the interior of the building is a huge bonus, but I am concerned this method of construction will be fiddly and not neccessarily stable. I am going to make the same chunk of building again, only this time with a 'flat' front to compare the two methods. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted December 11, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 11, 2009 Hi David I agree that having the building see-through is desirable. Could you use a solid length of woor, or square section plastic tube (guttering?) for the lift shaft, and reinforce this with square or triangular section lengths of wooden strip in each corner, to ensure the open plan version is robust and true? cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 David - could you have the liftshaft "Core" as four strips of perspex, with slots of floor thickness routed into one side of each strip? That way you would thread two opposite sides up through the set of floors, slide each floor individually into its slot and then add the other two sides of the liftshaft, sliding them into position to lock the assembly. Fitting the lifts would act as a complete lock to prevent anything moving inwards again.Drawing attached to try to explain what I mean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Hmm, thanks Jack, that's given me food for thought! This evenig I'm going to have a second go, this time with a full height structure. I've gone for thicker card for the exterior as well which might help. My main problem is stopping the floor warping as they are card... More experimentation beckons! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Ah, didn't realise you were using card for floors - I was thinking of something like 60 thou plasticard - with a central lift shaft they should remain flat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Sweet heavens alive, what have I got myself into?! Attempt 2 has come out much better, however my mind has turned to a sort of slurry-like goo after cutting out 120 windows (and that was just one wall!). The effect seems to work though, and although so far it feels like a lot of effort for not much gain - the interior seems to vanish so why not just make it a rigid box - but I can see that at the higher levels, against the backscene, the 'through glances' will add a definate layer of realism to the model. This is just 4 floors in (out of 15!) with the lower front curtain wall added on. What I will do is keep adding each floor plate, using the front wall as a guide to make sure the levels are consistent, and then once at the top (of this lower part of the building), add the other four walls, and then make a start on the higher section and roof pyramid. First I need a break from cutting windows for a while! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pirouets Posted December 11, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 11, 2009 What chance you will still be sane by the time you complete this? I love the ambition in this and having seen the ring road i'm pretty sure you can pull it off. Out of interest in an earlier post you talked about Pete Harvey looking to see if he can create an etch for the DLR unit. How does that work? Have you sent drawings or him, or is he doing that? My other question in the etch, is it a piece that folds up to create the body or will you then have to take all the sides and roof, etch and put them together a piece at a time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 In terms of the DLR units I'm sure that Alan Docherty would etch you some body shells, I know he does one-off requests in 009 and 3mm etc. as long as you provide a good drawing, and I know he's very reasonable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Sweet heavens alive, what have I got myself into?! Attempt 2 has come out much better, however my mind has turned to a sort of slurry-like goo after cutting out 120 windows (and that was just one wall!). David, two suggestion come to mind. One, get York Models to laser cut the side for you, or alternatively, see if you can get a local signwriters to cut them in vinyl, then you could just apply them to clear plastic sheeting. Or you could get one of these as you make lots of modern buildings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 I'm persevering with the hand-cut card method for the moment, in small doses! I've calculated the total number of windows on this building alone is 656 I've now completed the central core and floor plates, the facia is just temporarily fixed at the mo. Next step is to clad the remaining 4 sides, and then start work on the roof top pyramid David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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