scanman Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Well, thanks to a link from Julia of 'Highclere' fame, I've finally got back into RMWeb!! Being away in Birmingham for a month didn't help either - but has provided inspiration for a layout. I'm a frustrated nautical archaeologist - even more frustrated by the existance of Birminghams marvellous canal network - but which has very few of it's original buildings standing - so now the canals exist without a reason d'etre, exept as a playground. However, in one small area standa a group of buildings which DO provide a link - not only to the canal history, but also to it's early railway history as well. To those that know the area, it's a small group of buildings in the junction of St Vincent Street & Sheepcote street. Known now as 'The Roundhouse' (for obvious reasons) and I 'discovered' them in a 'preprandial' stroll along the towpath (course day finished a 4pm - hotel dinner at 7.30 - well what's a guy to do??). The next couple of eveneings were spent in the Central Library (Recommended for it's massive reference & local history section). The map was obtained there, and a a sheaf of dcumentary references - which showed that the range was built by the LNWR in 1840 (ah well, I could have *hoped* they were GWR), and about 30 years later sold to Birmingham Corporation who subsequerntly based their Works Department there. Unfortunately I couldn't deduce WHY the LNWR had built it, but my guess would be as an iterchange point with the canal. As an interested architectural modeller the very shape of the buildings was attractive, and even before finding the competition I was planning to use them on an extension to my current project, which combines my three favourite subjects - railways, industrial architecture and BEER (yes, its a brewery layout with river & canal interchange...) I'll post some images of the 'Mk I' layout as an adjunct to this (unfortunately at 2' x 8' it's just a bit too big for the comp). MkII will be a similar track-plan but in 'EM'.. So now it looks like the 'extension' (which will fit in a 'T'- shape on one end of the existing layout - thereby running acros the end of the layout room) will be 'completed' before the main boards. The new section will be 24" x 83" (yep 2010 Square inches!). All I have to do now is plan the track round the existing structure. And the canal of course! If anyone has any further info on 'Corporation Wharf', I'd be delighted to hear it. Regards Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I believe that Engine Shed is the the second shed built as part of Monument Lane by the LNWR in 1884 as a 6T straight dead-ended shed to augment their other shed slightly to the east (a 3 track through shed) built in 1858. It was closed 12 September 1962, used as a signing-on point until 1965, and then demolished prior to that site being used for the National Indoor Sports Centre. Could it be that the 'Corporation Wharf' facility had some influence on the selection of the site across the road? Pure speculation on my part - but could there have been some Good station/yard there in 1840 prior to building the 6 track shed. You didn't give a date for the OS map. Perhaps one in the period 1840-1884 would be good one to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 The building still exists - http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?t=h&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF8&ll=52.479058,-1.918009&spn=0.001607,0.002929&z=18 A mention on a canals website - http://www.culture24.org.uk/places+to+go/west+midlands/birmingham/tra23386 and http://www.bcn-society.co.uk/bp169_junctions.php From Showells Dictionary of Birmingham "Chimnies. -Like all manufacturing towns Birmingham is pretty well ornamented with tall chimnies, whose foul mouths belch forth clouds of sooty blackness, but the loftiest and most substantial belongs to the town itself. At the Corporation Wharf in Montague Street the "stack" is 258 feet in height, with a base 54 feet in circumference, and an inside diameter of 12 feet. About 250,000 bricks were used in its construction, which was completed in September, 1879. Householders of an economical turn must remember it is not always the cheapest plan to clean their chimnies by "burning them out," for in addition to the danger and risk of damage by so doing, the authorities of Moor Street have the peculiar custom of imposing a penalty (generally 10s.) when such cases are brought before them. Should such an event occur by mischance keep all doors and windows shut, and do not admit the sweeps who may come knocking at your door, unless fully prepared with the half-crowns they require as bribes not to tell the police. As a rule it is cheaper to trust to "Robert" not seeing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 In reply to Kenton's comment - Monummet Lane engine shed & yard definitely post-date 'Corporation Wharf'. Ther known build-date for the wharf is 1840 - the LNWR had also built a yard facility to the west about the same time. As Kenton states, Monument Road shed (Now covered by the National Indoor Arena) was built in the 1860s - the map date is 1880. Combe Barton's comment re the tall chimney appears to relate to another location of the same name. There is certainlt no chimney shown on thew 1880 map, nor does there appear to be any relict chimney on the site. I've now attached proposed trackplan - basically a copy of John Allen's 'Timesaver', coupled to 'Inglewood sidings'. I've also decided to include an example of the 'Birmingham Back To Backs' - and some images are shown below. The 'Back To Backs' might be known today as 'starter homes', as the street elevation house one set of families per frontage, and the 'yard' elevation house another family per frontage. There the similarity ends... The 'Amenities' had to cope with the activites of more than 70 people! The large building on the right will be a mill of some description - I'll have to search 'English Heritage's 'Pastscape' and other sites such as 'Staffordshire pasttrack' (both excellent sites once you know how to use them). Upcoming tasks - prepare the trackplan with 'Templot' (big learning curve coming up) - order the baseboard material (high density polyurethane foam) - re-wheel some locos to 'EM' gauge, finish the 'High Level' chassis for the Dapol 'Pug' and build the 'High Level' 'Hawthorn Leslie' from thwe 'Wunday box'! Oh yes - at some stage I'd better find time for work... Regards Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Hi Ian, WOW! That is one impressive looking plan and i love the prototype! I've never seen anything like that before in the UK, at first i thought it was something based upon this: http://www.bronx-terminal.com/?cat=6 but clearly not as yours is Brum! I'll watch your progress with great interest. Good luck with your project, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Hi Ian, WOW! That is one impressive looking plan and i love the prototype! I've never seen anything like that before in the UK, at first i thought it was something based upon this: http://www.bronx-terminal.com/?cat=6 but clearly not as yours is Brum! I'll watch your progress with great interest. Good luck with your project, John E. Cheers John - I'd like to think it's indicative of some of the interesting little backwaters that our railway system *used* to reach Mags like 'BRILL' often carry articles of a similar vein. In fact the 'original' layout (to which this will be attached) was inspired by an article on the railways of the Burton Breweries. As I said in the preamble, it also allows me to indiulge in my prediliction for good industrial architecture! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Progress (?) today... Well, the baseboard material is on order - I'll pick it up on Saturday on my way to 'ExpoEM' in Portsmouth. For the last couple of years (as mentioned above) I've been using high-density urethane foam, traded under the name of Knauf 'floormate'. For this project a sheet 50mm thick, 2' x 7', costs ??1750 - comparable to 9mm ply - but a heck of a lot lighter & much easier to work with regard to contours, canals etc. It is also completely stable although it does require 'edging' with 6mm ply just to protect the edges & provide mountings for baseboard connectors etc. Trackwork will be scratchbuilt using Templot (I hope - having difficulty getting my head round it!), code 75 bullhead rail soldered to copperclad sleepers. Most of the track will be buried in the 'substrate', so sleeper spacing etc will be immaterial. I've also formed 'tramway-style' track by soldering code 100 on it's side, with the railhead butting up to the running rail. The flat bottoms then provide a channel for the infill... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 24, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2009 For the last couple of years (as mentioned above) I've been using high-density urethane foam, traded under the name of Knauf 'floormate'. For this project a sheet 50mm thick, 2' x 7', costs ??1750 - comparable to 9mm ply - but a heck of a lot lighter & much easier to work with regard to contours, canals etc. It is also completely stable although it does require 'edging' with 6mm ply just to protect the edges & provide mountings for baseboard connectors etc. Only ??1750 eh? Cheap at twice the price - I know people who budget less than that for a car! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Only ??1750 eh? Cheap at twice the price - I know people who budget less than that for a car! Ah well - I apply my wife's principle... Why buy from Tesco's when you can buy the same from Harrods for 10 times the price? (or in this case 100 times the price!).. The desperate digit neatly avoided the decimal point. Something of a politician methinks...! ??17.50 per sheet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Nevard Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 What a wonderful prototype - the shot with the blue car is particularly fetching! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Well, not much *apparent* progress since November, mainly caused by having to undergo a massive 'rethink'. The problem was that the centre-peice building, when scaled at 4mm scale was a massive 1.6m in diameter! This left me three options. (a) 'size down' the building - unacceptable - the integrity of the building would have been seriously compromised. (B) Scale down to 'N' gauge - again, unacceptable - I'm not happy with 'shunting' in 'N' (Dont get me wrong - I like modelling in 'N' - allows those 'wide open vistas'!). © - Start again with a new project! So seen the new thread 'South Hall Yard'..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheeltapper Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 The map was obtained there, and a a sheaf of dcumentary references - which showed that the range was built by the LNWR in 1840 (ah well, I could have *hoped* they were GWR), and about 30 years later sold to Birmingham Corporation who subsequerntly based their Works Department there. Unfortunately I couldn't deduce WHY the LNWR had built it, but my guess would be as an iterchange point with the canal. A few years ago there was a detailed proposal for the British Waterways then West Midlands Unit to move to the Roundhouse as their main offices , a subsequent BW internal reorganisation meant this didnt happen but detailed plans were drawn up . During a conversation I had with the architect I am fairly certain I remember being told this building was originally built as a set of stables on two floors ( not sure if it was for canal or railway horses or both) and the arched access to the canalside wharf was for the delivery by boat of feedstuffs , bedding etc and removal of waste. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 Wheeltapper - Thanks for that - the form of the building now makes sense. I know from archival research in Birmingham City Library that the unit was constructed for the LN&WR. The remark about using the canal for the movement of bedding etc is really appropriate - canals were the ideal mode of transport for bulky but light loads such as hay which would otherwise take up valuable mervchandise-space in wagons. Plus, of course the rural routing of the majority of canal systems made access to the 'raw materials' easier, negating the necessity to transport the bales to a rail-head then tranship them again at the Birmingham end! Just a shame that, at the moment, I cannot see a way of incorporating the unit into amodel! Ah well when I get a 30x20 railway room - maybe! Regs Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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