Any Question Answered

[Argos]

6 hours ago, DavidLong said:

 

Hi Angus,

 

I had a number of contacts with Patrick some years ago. He is the chap who arranged for the J15 etches to be produced. At the time he was writing the Oakwood books (two volumes) on the Farranfore to Valencia Harbour branch. He attended a number of Association events but I haven't seen him in the recent past. I don't know if the layout was started or completed. Patrick uses email so Jim Watt could send him a mail and ask if he could contact you. If you speak to him on the phone it's best to cancel all other activities for the evening!

 

David

Thanks David, 

Despite having both of those books open and beside me when reading the Irish Lines article I didn't make the link between the authors! 

[Caley Jim]

8 hours ago, DavidLong said:

Patrick uses email so Jim Watt could send him a mail and ask if he could contact you.

I have just done that and asked if he is happy for me to pass on his email address to Angus.

 

Jim

[tapdieuk]

How to stop rust appearing on the wheels?

This was the 4F. 

While I am careful when soldering the crank pins. I clean the wheels and dry them off, just before painting I clean again with cellulose. I do try not to handle after I have been applying flux. Is it just a case of rubbing with a glass fiber pen? 

 

 

 

 

[Doncaster Green]

Help please all you loco chassis builders out there!  I am confused!

 

I am attempting to put an Association replacement chassis under a Farish J39 and have found an issue with the width of PCB to use.   In the instructions on the Shop 3 page the writer refers to 6.4mm width if not using the second set of reinforcement frames and 6mm width if using them.  However, Shop 3 only lists 7mm and 6.4mm.  Should the instructions refer to 7mm and 6.4mm and not 6.4mm and 6mm or am I looking for another source of 6mm PCB?

 

Thanks in anticipation of, hopefully, ceasing to be confused!

 

John

 

[65179]

41 minutes ago, Doncaster Green said:

Help please all you loco chassis builders out there!  I am confused!

 

I am attempting to put an Association replacement chassis under a Farish J39 and have found an issue with the width of PCB to use.   In the instructions on the Shop 3 page the writer refers to 6.4mm width if not using the second set of reinforcement frames and 6mm width if using them.  However, Shop 3 only lists 7mm and 6.4mm.  Should the instructions refer to 7mm and 6.4mm and not 6.4mm and 6mm or am I looking for another source of 6mm PCB?

 

Thanks in anticipation of, hopefully, ceasing to be confused!

 

John

 

 

It's a typo John. Use 6.4 for the double layer frames and 7 if you don't use the strengtheners. Also if using the strengtheners (and they do add a lot of rigidity) then offer them up to the outer frames and check they allow clearance for all the fold down bits that aid fitting the frame spacers.  It's a number of years since I put my chassis together, but I seem to remember a small issue there so I had to file the reinforcing frame top down a bit in one or two places near (in front of?) the gearbox.  The loco chassis is a nice firm fit in the loco body.

 

Be prepared to make small adjustments to the replacement outside frames for the tender too. 

 

Regards,

Simon

[Doncaster Green]

36 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

It's a typo John. Use 6.4 for the double layer frames and 7 if you don't use the strengtheners. Also if using the strengtheners (and they do add a lot of rigidity) then offer them up to the outer frames and check they allow clearance for all the fold down bits that aid fitting the frame spacers.  It's a number of years since I put my chassis together, but I seem to remember a small issue there so I had to file the reinforcing frame top down a bit in one or two places near (in front of?) the gearbox.  The loco chassis is a nice firm fit in the loco body.

 

Be prepared to make small adjustments to the replacement outside frames for the tender too. 

 

Regards,

Simon

Many thanks for that Simon.  That was what I was hoping the answer was!  Also, thanks for the tip about checking clearances.  I would have gone blindly ahead and then wondered why it didn't fit!

 

Regards

John

 

[MarshLane]

I do not wish to open a can of worms and appreciate that this could be a personal preference situation, but what would people recommend, soldering iron wise for etched brass/nickle silver kit/scratchbuilding in 2FS?  I have a temperature controlled iron, which works well that I acquired during the Maplin close-down at a heavily discounted rate, but am struggling to find any retail outlets that can supply different 'tips' for it.  These are a push on and screw down type, which no-one seems to sell in the right size.

 

I am thinking therefore that the best way forward would be to keep that iron as it is for doing track work, and purchase a new temperature controlled iron with a spare set of different tips (chistle/pin head etc..) for working with models and kits.  Is it better (or even possible?) to get a temperature control unit and a separate iron? Ive not built any etched brass/nickle silver kits in 2mm yet - have done in 7mm - but 2mm is a very different challenge!

 

Any comments on suitable models or makes would be welcome.  What are people using?  Given the couple of upcoming little projects I'll be working with a couple of different temperatures of solder, and some very fiddly bits, so maximum flexibility is key, but also not spending way too much!   Any thoughts/views?

 

Rich

[PaulCheffus]

36 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

I do not wish to open a can of worms and appreciate that this could be a personal preference situation, but what would people recommend, soldering iron wise for etched brass/nickle silver kit/scratchbuilding in 2FS?  I have a temperature controlled iron, which works well that I acquired during the Maplin close-down at a heavily discounted rate, but am struggling to find any retail outlets that can supply different 'tips' for it.  These are a push on and screw down type, which no-one seems to sell in the right size.

 

I am thinking therefore that the best way forward would be to keep that iron as it is for doing track work, and purchase a new temperature controlled iron with a spare set of different tips (chistle/pin head etc..) for working with models and kits.  Is it better (or even possible?) to get a temperature control unit and a separate iron? Ive not built any etched brass/nickle silver kits in 2mm yet - have done in 7mm - but 2mm is a very different challenge!

 

Any comments on suitable models or makes would be welcome.  What are people using?  Given the couple of upcoming little projects I'll be working with a couple of different temperatures of solder, and some very fiddly bits, so maximum flexibility is key, but also not spending way too much!   Any thoughts/views?

 

Rich

Hi

 

I've been using an Antex XS (25W) iron for years for building 2mm stock and not had any issues. 

 

I also own an Antex 690D temperature controlled 50W iron but it doesn't get much use for 2mm stuff.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Ian Morgan]

I picked up a Hakko FX-888D from Maplins closing down sale. I purchased some genuine spare tips direct from Japan. They were not cheap, and it took a few days for them to arrive, but the quality means they should see me out. I now have a standard pointy tip and chisel tip, a heavier chisel tip (which I have not had to use yet) and a very fine pointy tip for surface mount electronics work.

 

For etched kits, the heaviest tip you can fit into the space will provide almost instant heat for the joint without needing to linger long enough for the rest of the etch to heat up, and disassemble.

 

Wattage will affect how long it takes to heat up, or restore temperature after making a joint. The iron should not be on the joint long enough to require more power, provided the bit was large enough to provide the heat energy required to make the joint.

 

 

 

[Jayk]

   If you only get 1 answer per response consider yourself lucky 😁 I think if you stick with any brand of soldering iron that has been around for a while which also has replaceable tips you'll be fine. I'm using a very basic Antex TCS iron rated for  50W @ 230V, although I should note that it's not the one currently shown on their website, this was also purchased from Maplin but many years before they closed. I'd guess that the iron is at least 20 years old at this point. It has a little dial for adjusting the temperature that you operate with the tip of a jewellers screwdriver.

   I've had very limited experience with constructing things in 2mmFS but the same basics will apply that you learned with 7mm. The smaller the tip the less heat the iron can push in to the item you're working on with the wattage being how fast the iron can replace the heat in the tip. I've only used a 1mm normal chisel tip for most construction only needing to go up to a 2mm chisel tip when attaching internal bulkheads to a diesel loco body and for constructing a powered bogie. Haven't used the 0.5mm conical tip yet.

 

   I'll have to leave details on how to handle different melting point solders to others as that's something I've not needed to deal with yet. On the occasions where I've needed to solder an extra piece on top of or next to a previously soldered item the 1mm tip and being quick in and out with the iron was enough.

 

-Jayk

[queensquare]

33 minutes ago, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

 

I've been using an Antex XS (25W) iron for years for building 2mm stock and not had any issues. 

 

I also own an Antex 690D temperature controlled 50W iron but it doesn't get much use for 2mm stuff.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Another vote for Antex here. I have a couple of the 25W irons and a 50W temp controlled like Paul and all get a lot of use. 

 

Jerry

[Donw]

Like Ian I use a Hakko FX888d .  I got it because I also do electronics stuff.  it is somewhat expensive but is good quality. As a soldering station it is best suited to a work bench.   I also have an Antex 50w normal iron.  I do not think the higher wattage irons are a problem  and I would suggest a 2mm chisel  tip is the best.  A second smaller iron may be useful for detail work but a quick in add out with a bigger iron will usually work.

 

The Resistance soldering unit and the microflame torches I use in 7mm have less use in 2mm waving a torch around a 2mm model may well reduce it to component parts.

 

Don

[MarshLane]

Chaps,

Thanks very much for your replies. I'll have to have another dig around on the case of mine as I dont think could find a manufacturers name last time I looked, which didn't help getting spares.  However as Ian has said, he's got them direct from Japan, I'll take another look.  Failing that, the general comments of Antex sounds like that is a good direction to head.

 

Thanks guys.

Rich

[Ian Morgan]

12 hours ago, MarshLane said:

Thanks very much for your replies. I'll have to have another dig around on the case of mine as I dont think could find a manufacturers name last time I looked, which didn't help getting spares.  However as Ian has said, he's got them direct from Japan, I'll take another look.  Failing that, the general comments of Antex sounds like that is a good direction to head.

 

I actually got them through Amazon. Search for "Hakko T18". Standard sizes appear to be available from the UK now, but some less standard ones come in from Japan.

 

Make sure they are genuine, as there are a lot of low quality fake ones out there (including the actual base units).

 

[Lacathedrale]

I've got a 25w blue antex but I was getting annoyed at how often the tip would oxidise, just sitting there hot all the time - and the very heavy cord which was liable to drag it off the desk at any moment. I picked up a soldering station (and a set of tips) from Circuit Specialists on the recommendation in my thread - they appear to be just the same old re-badged chinese variable temperature units you see around, but so far it's done me good: https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron

[MarshLane]

2 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

I actually got them through Amazon. Search for "Hakko T18". Standard sizes appear to be available from the UK now, but some less standard ones come in from Japan.

 

Thanks Ian,
I'll have a search around the rainforest!

 

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

I picked up a soldering station (and a set of tips) from Circuit Specialists on the recommendation in my thread - they appear to be just the same old re-badged chinese variable temperature units you see around, but so far it's done me good: https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron

 

Cheers William, now that is interesting, because although the temperature controlled box part of it is different, the iron in the picture has the same style screw tips as mine.  Might be worth investigating further.

 

Rich

[Donw]

T18 refers to the tips this is the official importers site

 

https://www.hakko.co.uk/product/fx-888d-digital-soldering-station-blue-yellow/     

 

as I said not cheap but I am pleased with the product.

 

Don 

[Chris Higgs]

On 16/05/2022 at 14:55, MarshLane said:

I do not wish to open a can of worms and appreciate that this could be a personal preference situation, but what would people recommend, soldering iron wise for etched brass/nickle silver kit/scratchbuilding in 2FS?  I have a temperature controlled iron, which works well that I acquired during the Maplin close-down at a heavily discounted rate, but am struggling to find any retail outlets that can supply different 'tips' for it.  These are a push on and screw down type, which no-one seems to sell in the right size.

 

I am thinking therefore that the best way forward would be to keep that iron as it is for doing track work, and purchase a new temperature controlled iron with a spare set of different tips (chistle/pin head etc..) for working with models and kits.  Is it better (or even possible?) to get a temperature control unit and a separate iron? Ive not built any etched brass/nickle silver kits in 2mm yet - have done in 7mm - but 2mm is a very different challenge!

 

Any comments on suitable models or makes would be welcome.  What are people using?  Given the couple of upcoming little projects I'll be working with a couple of different temperatures of solder, and some very fiddly bits, so maximum flexibility is key, but also not spending way too much!   Any thoughts/views?

 

Rich

 

He have of course had this discussion before. I am a bit of a heretic and use an RSU exclusively. Produces very neat joints (certainly compared to a few I have seen over the years) and a combination of using solder paste and the ability to keep the iron on the joint whilst it cools is as good as having two extra hands.

 

You can vaporise fine brass wire if you are not careful. So ... just be careful.

 

Chris

 

[Doncaster Green]

I am about to embark on my first use of the Mk5 driving wheels and have been searching, in vain, for do’s and don’ts.  Up to now, with Mk4s, I have followed the advice Nick Mitchell included in his Jubilee videos.  Does this still apply to the Mk5s?  E.G will they, being basically stainless steel, accept solder for holding the crankpins?  Are there any other things that I should or shouldn’t do?

 

Any help will be gratefully received.

 

John

[65179]

28 minutes ago, Doncaster Green said:

I am about to embark on my first use of the Mk5 driving wheels and have been searching, in vain, for do’s and don’ts.  Up to now, with Mk4s, I have followed the advice Nick Mitchell included in his Jubilee videos.  Does this still apply to the Mk5s?  E.G will they, being basically stainless steel, accept solder for holding the crankpins?  Are there any other things that I should or shouldn’t do?

 

Any help will be gratefully received.

 

John

 

Some have managed to solder crankpins in on the mk5s. I don't know whether this is just in effect a friction fit with the solder either forming a retaining plug or occupying any irregularities in the hole. I know Nick had an issue with a soldered one coming loose (not ideal if it's one with a return crank) and ended up using one of the loctites in preference thereafter. It may have been 243. For your J39 I suspect it may only really matter if you add a lubricator drive.

 

Simon

 

[Doncaster Green]

Thanks for that Simon.  The J39 is third in the queue behind a J94 and a Jinty so I don't need to worry about the lubricator drive just yet.  I'm starting with the others as they appear relatively straight forward, like no reinforcement frames or wiggly bits, and will be a gentle (?) introduction to 2mm chassis construction!  The main things I need to discover are how accurate the crankpin hole sizes are (do they need opening out a bit) and how much force is acceptable for a good interference fit without bending the pin!  Also, if using Loctite or similar, is it better to apply that after the crankpin washers are soldered on in case the heat breaks any bond?

 

Regards

 

John

 

 

[65179]

36 minutes ago, Doncaster Green said:

Thanks for that Simon.  The J39 is third in the queue behind a J94 and a Jinty so I don't need to worry about the lubricator drive just yet.  I'm starting with the others as they appear relatively straight forward, like no reinforcement frames or wiggly bits, and will be a gentle (?) introduction to 2mm chassis construction!  The main things I need to discover are how accurate the crankpin hole sizes are (do they need opening out a bit) and how much force is acceptable for a good interference fit without bending the pin!  Also, if using Loctite or similar, is it better to apply that after the crankpin washers are soldered on in case the heat breaks any bond?

 

Regards

 

John

 

 

 

I've not used the new style wheels yet. However offering up your crankpin and trial fitting it is always the best way to determine what adjustment is needed. If it won't go in with gentle pressure then measure the width of the crankpin, take a small cutting broach and measure where it reaches the same width and mark the broach with a sharpie or similar immediately at or preferably below that point (or take the average of several crankpins if you prefer).  You want a line that you can work to carelessly (so you can then focus on getting the right size hole thereafter, rather than assuming that working to the pen mark will be correct. This is more important when marking a broach for the width of frame bushes).

 

 Little if any material will need removing to get the hole the right size for the crankpin to go all the way home. If soldering then making a small countersink at the rear of the hole as Jerry and others do won't hurt.  To fit crankpins I do the test fitting and then with the wheel held in a piece of wood (with a hole drilled for the half axle and the wheel firm against the wood surface), I gently push the flanged crankpins home using a pair of narrow nosed pliers, which I find helps avoid deforming the pin as it goes in. Regardless of whether you are soldering or gluing the crankpins in, add them prior to fitting the wheels to ensure a good positive fit. When adding crankpin washers or return cranks you want to be in and out with the iron so you should not be disturbing the glue or solder used to secure the crankpin itself.

 

Simon

[Nigelcliffe]

The assumption in the design of the Mk5 wheels is that Loctite would be used for crankpins.   Unless you're really heavy-handed with a soldering iron, the heat from fitting crankpin washers won't destroy the Loctite. 
Others have used solder, but given the printed stainless wheel material I'm dubious whether it is actually soldered, or really just "liquid metal flowing into spaces" to lock things.  

The pin holes should be drilled fairly accurately from the shop.  You'll find them tough to open up, the printed material is really difficult to drill, expect it to blunt most cutting tools very quickly.     

 

- Nigel

[Izzy]

As I’ve said previously I soldered in my crankpins with the one set of mk5’s I have used to date. I did countersink the rear of the hole, to aid retention, something done as a matter of course, but I also used a fairly high concentration of phosphoric acid flux, around 20%. This is my standard flux mix which I make up/bottle myself. Commercial PA flux is I think around the 12% mark or less. I have read somewhere that flux with a good ‘bite’ is the key to soldering with stainless steel, that and sufficient heat. It’s all a bit trial and error isn’t it?

 

Bob

[Donw]

3 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

The assumption in the design of the Mk5 wheels is that Loctite would be used for crankpins.   Unless you're really heavy-handed with a soldering iron, the heat from fitting crankpin washers won't destroy the Loctite. 
Others have used solder, but given the printed stainless wheel material I'm dubious whether it is actually soldered, or really just "liquid metal flowing into spaces" to lock things.  

The pin holes should be drilled fairly accurately from the shop.  You'll find them tough to open up, the printed material is really difficult to drill, expect it to blunt most cutting tools very quickly.     

 

- Nigel

 

Nigel for clarity which Loctite is recommended ?

 

Don