Templecombe turntable

[BMacdermott]

Hello Tim

 

Many thanks for this - apologies, but I have only just discovered your thread!

 

Hope you are well.

 

All the best.

 

Brian

[tingleytim]

On 16/01/2021 at 16:42, BMacdermott said:

Hello Tim

 

Many thanks for this - apologies, but I have only just discovered your thread!

 

Hope you are well.

 

All the best.

 

Brian

Hello Brian,

              Good to hear from you.  I’m not too bad thanks.  Hope you’re ok.

              Your message has prompted me to have another look at your “Modellers’ and Enthusiasts’ Guide to the S&D Line” recalling its pages about Templecombe.  I’d forgotten about the SO 9.05 variation where the pilot remains between the two coach sets in platform 3 and the up passenger departs on its own.  I can’t reproduce this to good effect as the layout doesn’t include the upper station; I wonder why it was done differently on Saturdays.

              I intend before too long to do a video of the sequence leading up to the SX 9.05 departure.  It’s made more interesting by the Blandford goods leaving as the up passenger is arriving, this perhaps being the only time of day when two pilots were in use at the same time.  This has been challenging to run accurately on the model getting everything in the right order.  Fortunately 14 separate videos can eventually be done of the 14 separate movements that comprise this sequence and then joined together later.  A great shame at the moment is that the kits for the signals at No. 2 Junction are unobtainable.  This explains why the videos done so far miss out this area. 

              If you spot any errors in the trains or the caption information please let me know.  Operating the layout and planning videos brings up plenty of operational issues.

All the best.

Tim.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Tim

 

All good here thanks!

 

I'm not so involved with S&D matters these days but still have regular contact with Mike Arlett and Peter Smith.

 

Up until 'the Covid problem', my wife and I were meeting up with Jonathan Edwards and his good lady on a regular 'annual natter and lunch' basis - we hope to resume as soon as we can.

 

According to my notes, the change of procedure at Templecombe was due to the arrival times on Saturday - effectively putting the trains 'wrong way round' so to speak.

 

All the best with the project and I look forward to seeing more!

 

Brian

[Combe Martin]

Hello Tim,

 

Now that exhibitions are starting to be planned and happen again, do you have plans to show Templecombe again and if so where and when.  I found out about your last shows after the event, if I'd known I'd have been there. 

 

Peter.

[tingleytim]

On 09/09/2021 at 14:22, Combe Martin said:

Hello Tim,

 

Now that exhibitions are starting to be planned and happen again, do you have plans to show Templecombe again and if so where and when.  I found out about your last shows after the event, if I'd known I'd have been there. 

 

Peter.

Thanks for your interest Peter.  Nothing booked yet but with signals now complete and integrated with route setting and some scenic details to add I’m hoping some shows will be interested next year.  I’ll keep this group appraised of developments.

[tingleytim]

At the request of S&DRT I’ve been having a go at some more video footage of “Templecombe Lower”.  My movie making skills are still in their infancy but I’m pleased to be able to show more of pilot workings and recently arrived signals and Whitaker apparatus.  Hope the Youtube link works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-dfsantCHE.

I’ve managed to greatly improve route setting using “Big Bear Model Rail Controller” which enables trains to be summoned with a few presses on the laptop keyboard.  Signals and the “falling man” are integrated with the point settings.  Bliss (most of the time)!

Seasons greetings.

Tim.

[tingleytim]

 

Very pleased that “Templecombe Lower” features in the “bookazine” Great British Model Railways which hit the shops today. Several great photos taken by Chris Nevard accompany the description over 10 pages.  First couple of pages attached below. Thanks for help from a great many sources, including from the RMWeb SDJR group, and from modeller friends in the S&D Railway Trust’s Northern Area Group who made the working signals and tablet catcher apparatus, and from my daughter Louise who painted the backscenes.

There’s ongoing discussions about possible exhibition visits. I’ll keep this group posted.

[tingleytim]

Hi,

              Templecombe Lower is now a definite booking for the Doncaster Festival of British Railway Modelling on the weekend of 10th and 11th February.  If you can get there please introduce yourself if you have contributed to “Templecombe Turntable” over the last few years.  Our operating sequence will include real morning sequences from timetables and records featuring pilot hauled trains (of course) along with working signals and Whitaker apparatus.  Maybe not close to S&D territory this time but hope some of you can make it.

Cheers.

Tim.

[RailWest]

Had you said 'Dorchester' rather than 'Doncaster', then I might have managed to get there :-)

 

Hope all goes well - hopefully there will be some videos from the day ?

[tingleytim]

On 06/12/2022 at 19:13, RailWest said:

Had you said 'Dorchester' rather than 'Doncaster', then I might have managed to get there :-)

 

Hope all goes well - hopefully there will be some videos from the day ?

Thanks Chris.

Not heard anything about videos.  Hope there'll be some.

Next outing could be a lot further south than Doncaster! Nothing definite yet.

Tim.

[RailWest]

Apologies to Tim for diverting this thread down the line about, but there may be those reading this forum who know the answer. 

 

The attached photo (attributed to Roy Denison) shows a loaded (?) passenger train at Templecombe (Upper) being propelled from the Up Branch back into Platform 3, presumably to couple-up to other train already in that platform. There have been discussions before (but I've mis-laid the reference) about occasions in the timetable when trains were combined in Platform 3, so this may be one of those instances.

 

Can anyone add anything to this please - eg possible time of day etc ?

[Combe Martin]

Lovely picture, unfortunately there dosn't seem to be a date attached. Picture evidence suggests these Bullied sets were mainly used from 1964 onwards (the short ones were used up to withdrawl in Dec 1963) though there was always the odd exception.  Set 826 was a very late withdrawl (mid 1967) so that dosn't help.  The green Collet 0-6-0 with Collet tender being used as station pilot was one of a number allocated to Templecombe, but they were all withdrawn by May 1965. 

 

So, sometime in 1964 is my only guess ! 

[RailWest]

Yes, apparently the photo was 1964 :-)

 

[tingleytim]

16 hours ago, RailWest said:

Apologies to Tim for diverting this thread down the line about, but there may be those reading this forum who know the answer. 

 

The attached photo (attributed to Roy Denison) shows a loaded (?) passenger train at Templecombe (Upper) being propelled from the Up Branch back into Platform 3, presumably to couple-up to other train already in that platform. There have been discussions before (but I've mis-laid the reference) about occasions in the timetable when trains were combined in Platform 3, so this may be one of those instances.

 

Can anyone add anything to this please - eg possible time of day etc ?

I posted the following in reply to Chris’s Facebook post with the same picture and query:

I think the shadows show the sun coming from the north-west so this would seem to be an evening event. Most unlikely that the train would have passengers. The early morning train from Bournemouth was reversed in the manner shown in the photo (when it was backed onto the 6am from Bristol in platform 3), but passengers weren’t allowed on board during this manoeuvre – though I did manage to stowaway on it once! My guess is the coaches are being put in platform 3 to form the 8.50 pm to Bath, though not of course hauled by a tender first Collett 0-6-0. Perhaps the coaches had been in one of the Upper yard sidings that didn’t have direct access to the western end of platform 3. Was the 8.50 part of a Bath or Templecombe duty?

            Looking at the picture again later, the shadows might be too short for evening.  And my guess at the 8.50 departure was wrong because this was the same train as the 6.48 pm from Bournemouth which would most likely have had a 76XXX loco at the front and would have been piloted back into platform 3. (Timetables showed some trains either side of Templecombe on different columns disguising that they were through services.)  Another idea: on Saturdays, if I recall correctly, 3 extra coaches used to be added at Templecombe to the 4.20 from Bath to provide stock for the late Saturdays Only service from Bournemouth back to Templecombe.  I’d go with that unless anyone can think of anything better.  Time: 5.40pm.

 

[bécasse]

My thoughts were that this was a southbound train (because the loco isn't going to head northbound tender-first). I rather wondered, given that it is a Bulleid 3-set, whether this was part of the apparently convoluted arrangements which returned the stock of the 8.35 am (RP) Waterloo to Bristol™/Portishead (via Bournemouth and Bath) to London as part of a two day diagram. It can't be the outbound train as that called (NA) at Templecombe Lower.

[Combe Martin]

2 hours ago, tingleytim said:

 Another idea: on Saturdays, if I recall correctly, 3 extra coaches used to be added at Templecombe to the 4.20 from Bath to provide stock for the late Saturdays Only service from Bournemouth back to Templecombe.  I’d go with that unless anyone can think of anything better.  Time: 5.40pm.

 

 I seem to recall reading somewhere (possibly in one of Peter Smiths books) about a late in the day 2P hauled service from Bath with 4 on, having an extra set attached at Templecombe, and it then being a bit of a struggle after Bailey Gate (Parkstone Bank ?).

[geoffers]

"...after Bailey Gate (Parkstone Bank ?)..."  - and Corfe Mullen Bank?

[tingleytim]

23 hours ago, RailWest said:

Apologies to Tim for diverting this thread down the line about, but there may be those reading this forum who know the answer. 

 

The attached photo (attributed to Roy Denison) shows a loaded (?) passenger train at Templecombe (Upper) being propelled from the Up Branch back into Platform 3, presumably to couple-up to other train already in that platform. There have been discussions before (but I've mis-laid the reference) about occasions in the timetable when trains were combined in Platform 3, so this may be one of those instances.

 

Can anyone add anything to this please - eg possible time of day etc ?

I posted the following in reply to Chris’s Facebook post with the same picture and query:

I think the shadows show the sun coming from the north-west so this would seem to be an evening event. Most unlikely that the train would have passengers. The early morning train from Bournemouth was reversed in the manner shown in the photo (when it was backed onto the 6am from Bristol in platform 3), but passengers weren’t allowed on board during this manoeuvre – though I did manage to stowaway on it once! My guess is the coaches are being put in platform 3 to form the 8.50 pm to Bath, though not of course hauled by a tender first Collett 0-6-0. Perhaps the coaches had been in one of the Upper yard sidings that didn’t have direct access to the western end of platform 3. Was the 8.50 part of a Bath or Templecombe duty?

            Looking at the picture again later, the shadows might be too short for evening.  And my guess at the 8.50 departure was wrong because this was the same train as the 6.48 pm from Bournemouth which would most likely have had a 76XXX loco at the front and would have been piloted back into platform 3. (Timetables showed some trains either side of Templecombe on different columns disguising that they were through services.)  Another idea: on Saturdays, if I recall correctly, 3 extra coaches used to be added at Templecombe to the 4.20 from Bath to provide stock for the late Saturdays Only service from Bournemouth back to Templecombe.  I’d go with that unless anyone can think of anything better.  Time: 5.40pm.

 

[tingleytim]

This discussion has prompted me to dig out the notebooks.  I recorded the 15.35 Bristol (16.20 from Bath) at or south of Templecombe on 4 occasions.  I was at Templecombe on 31/8/63 and recorded 3 extra coaches being added.  Pity I didn’t add any more detail.  On the other 3 occasions this train had the extra coach set every time.  On 2/1/65 there was a van between the two coach sets; 76014 was banked from Poole to Branksome by 80146.  This seems to confirm the answer to Chris’s question.  Slightly off topic but I’ve never worked out how the loco for the late SO train got to Bournemouth.

[tingleytim]

6 hours ago, bécasse said:

My thoughts were that this was a southbound train (because the loco isn't going to head northbound tender-first). I rather wondered, given that it is a Bulleid 3-set, whether this was part of the apparently convoluted arrangements which returned the stock of the 8.35 am (RP) Waterloo to Bristol™/Portishead (via Bournemouth and Bath) to London as part of a two day diagram. It can't be the outbound train as that called (NA) at Templecombe Lower.

I recall an internet discussion about some coaches off the 8.35 Waterloo becoming the 11.40 Bournemouth to Bristol.  My SR summer 64 timetable shows this train arriving at Bournemouth West at 11.33 just 7 minutes before the S&D train was due to leave so that couldn’t have happened in that timetable period.  I caught the 11.40 on a number of occasions from Bournemouth West and am sure the coaches were in the platform well before the departure time and not hurredly taken from an arrival from London.  Isn’t it more likely that the coaches came off the 8.35 at Bournemouth Central when S&D trains departed from there from August 65 when West was shut?

[bécasse]

I have seen a photograph (somewhere) of a Bulleid 3-set arriving at Portishead shortly before the branch closed and it was captioned as being an unadvertised through service from London Waterloo - and Portishead closed before Bournemouth West. Certainly the 3-set worked through once the West was shut as I travelled through from Waterloo to Evercreech Junction on it. The August 1965 "temporary" closure of the West occurred in the middle of a timetable period and it seems very unlikely that carriage working diagrams would have been altered in such a major way, it was interesting that it was the rear portion of the 8.35 ex-Waterloo that worked through from Central so that the front portion had to be drawn off first (whereas at the West it would have been at the right end of the train for a loco to drop onto it to work to Bath GP).

[Flying Fox 34F]

On 14/12/2022 at 18:35, RailWest said:

Apologies to Tim for diverting this thread down the line about, but there may be those reading this forum who know the answer. 

 

The attached photo (attributed to Roy Denison) shows a loaded (?) passenger train at Templecombe (Upper) being propelled from the Up Branch back into Platform 3, presumably to couple-up to other train already in that platform. There have been discussions before (but I've mis-laid the reference) about occasions in the timetable when trains were combined in Platform 3, so this may be one of those instances.

 

Can anyone add anything to this please - eg possible time of day etc ?

Just stumbled across this thread.  I’ve looked at the comments and concluded the carriage set is being attached to other similar coaches.  The Buckeye Coupling is raised.  Also the set is being shunted Loose Coupled.  The Vacuum Pipe is hanging down and not connected onto the Dummy fitting.

 

Paul

[tingleytim]

On 15/12/2022 at 20:43, bécasse said:

I have seen a photograph (somewhere) of a Bulleid 3-set arriving at Portishead shortly before the branch closed and it was captioned as being an unadvertised through service from London Waterloo - and Portishead closed before Bournemouth West. Certainly the 3-set worked through once the West was shut as I travelled through from Waterloo to Evercreech Junction on it. The August 1965 "temporary" closure of the West occurred in the middle of a timetable period and it seems very unlikely that carriage working diagrams would have been altered in such a major way, it was interesting that it was the rear portion of the 8.35 ex-Waterloo that worked through from Central so that the front portion had to be drawn off first (whereas at the West it would have been at the right end of the train for a loco to drop onto it to work to Bath GP).

I photographed the 11.40 at Bournemouth West on 8/4/1964 and also on 28/7/1965 just before West closed.  On both occasions it left from one of the shorter platforms that S&D trains usually went from.  On neither date were the coaches taken from a train from Waterloo.  I have a Carriage Working Notice for summer 1960 on which the 11.40’s coaches came from Berth/Branksome Loop, and its van next to the loco came off the 2.40am from Bath.  A table on page 36 of “District Controller’s View No. 4” shows the 11.40’s coaches came to Bournemouth on the 15.35 from Bristol and that seems to be the case from a few of my photos in the latter years.  The 1957 carriage workings table on page 8 of the District Controller’s View Bath to Bristol book corroborates this.  I am yet to be convinced that there were through coaches from Waterloo to Portishead via the S&D but would be fascinated to learn otherwise.

[Combe Martin]

On 06/12/2022 at 17:04, tingleytim said:

Hi,

              Templecombe Lower is now a definite booking for the Doncaster Festival of British Railway Modelling on the weekend of 10th and 11th February.  If you can get there please introduce yourself if you have contributed to “Templecombe Turntable” over the last few years.  Our operating sequence will include real morning sequences from timetables and records featuring pilot hauled trains (of course) along with working signals and Whitaker apparatus.  Maybe not close to S&D territory this time but hope some of you can make it.

Cheers.

Tim.

 

Just one little point, the Doncaster exhibition is the 11th and 12th of February. 

[tingleytim]

Some rapidly taken photos of Templecombe Lower's trip to the Doncaster Festival of British Railway Modelling this last weekend.  

Some will recognise the above picture as the 9.05am double departure from platform 3 heading toward No. 2 Junction where the coupled together trains will be separated to go their opposite ways.  76056 is on the 6am from Bristol.  In the distance is 73050 on the 9.05 to Bath.

Below: Evening Star on the 9.03 from Bristol is being piloted back to No. 2 Junction by pannier tank 4691before continuing its southbound journey.