plarailfan Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Is this the L&Y TransPennine route via Summit tunnel were talking about of the LNWR line via Standedge Tunnel? Either will be interesting with tunnel clearances for overhead to worry about. Yes, it's both routes. Standedge line first, with the route through Summit tunnel expected to follow sometime afterwards. Presumably the often discussed, (in the railway media) four track section through Dewsbury station and the re-opened single track Standedge bore, will be done at the same time the electrification works start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Is the proposal to put the missing curve at Castlefield in to divert TP airport trains via Victoria - Oxford Rd - Piccadillystill in the plans? (To aleviate the conflicting moves at Ardwick/Piccadilly) If so (and if electrified) some major engineering at Victoria to increase clearance under Cheetham Hill Road Bridge would seem to be required. Similarly for the Liverpool/Preston-Manchester (if including Victoria) and definitely if the CalderValley schemes go ahead. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Given the furore over the last major rolling stock order going to Siemens, I can't see it being poltically acceptable that more Desiros or versions of them would be ordered for Transpennine. But then again, the ineptitude of our politicians , whatever party, never fails to astound LM have an order going in which pretty much *must* go to Siemens as they have to be compatible with the existing fleet, the suggestion was that the fairly small number TPX would need could just tack onto the end of that.... Edwin has a good point though that they could still do that to get things up and running and then get Bombardier to build the main TPX electric fleet, bouncing the Desiro's off to another operator (LM?) - i'm not sure it would get UK.GOV. off the hook for Bombardier quick enough though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I wonder if there might be more clearance for the OHLE in the old single bore tunnels at Standedge where the highest part of the tunnel would be over the centre of the track? I understand electric cables use at least one of the tunnels at present and the other may be an emergency escape route for the canal. Might they keep all the tunnels in use and reinstate four tracks to Huddersfield (or even Heaton Lodge)? But that would mean re-slewing the present two tracks between Marsden and Huddersfield and probably reducing the line speed which was raised in the 80's when the slow lines were taken out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2011 Is the proposal to put the missing curve at Castlefield in to divert TP airport trains via Victoria - Oxford Rd - Piccadillystill in the plans? (To aleviate the conflicting moves at Ardwick/Piccadilly) If so (and if electrified) some major engineering at Victoria to increase clearance under Cheetham Hill Road Bridge would seem to be required. Similarly for the Liverpool/Preston-Manchester (if including Victoria) and definitely if the CalderValley schemes go ahead. The Ordsall link? I believe so, yes. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 ,.......four track section through Dewsbury station and the re-opened single track Standedge bore, will be done at the same time the electrification works start. Thanks plasrailfan. Having worked steam through the single bores on Standedge, it seems incredible that electric overhead could be got in there as well..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 DerekEm8, what camera are you using. Those shots looks incredibly clean. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 DerekEm8, what camera are you using. Those shots looks incredibly clean. Larry, Thanks for your complimentt Pentax *istds ( only 6meg) but a 22 year old Pentax 35-105 AF lens shot at 400 iso.Pictures (jpg) untouched from the camera other than resized in Irfanview for RMWEB. Not done much yet with my Kx (12meg). I've only used Pentax for the last 30 years.and am quite content to stay with them. The 35-105 is a fantastc lens and I won't change it for the world.! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) If so (and if electrified) some major engineering at Victoria to increase clearance under Cheetham Hill Road Bridge would seem to be required. Similarly for the Liverpool/Preston-Manchester (if including Victoria) and definitely if the CalderValley schemes go ahead. From that second picture I think the clearance may already be there. Look at where the nearest part of the bridge shadow falls on the second coach, which must be pretty much underneath the nearer parapet of the bridge. The vertical gap is nearly as deep as the roof of the Mk2 so should be plenty for the wire and its clearances. When they rebuilt Victoria in the early 1990s, I suspect they dropped the track under this bridge as well as providing clearances within the station itself. The Liverpool/Preston scheme includes Victoria as the extra trains would have to terminate here. It doesn't go any further east though. Edited November 28, 2011 by Edwin_m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway had plans to electrify the Oldham Loop in 1915, shelved due to WW !. Metrolink SHOULD complete the electrification of the Oldham Loop in 2014 - 99 years later. I wonder if the current plans for electrification had been announced earlier would Metrolink have gone ahead. ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 From that second picture I think the clearance may already be there. Look at where the nearest part of the bridge shadow falls on the second coach, which must be pretty much underneath the nearer parapet of the bridge. The vertical gap is nearly as deep as the roof of the Mk2 so should be plenty for the wire and its clearances. When they rebuilt Victoria in the early 1990s, I suspect they dropped the track under this bridge as well as providing clearances within the station itself. The Liverpool/Preston scheme includes Victoria as the extra trains would have to terminate here. It doesn't go any further east though. Edwin, If the TPX Airport trains are rerouted via Victoria (and electrified) the line from Stalybridge - Miles Platting- Victoria will also need OHLE installing (and obviosly the Ordsall link) The length from Miles Platting to Victoria would also be used by the Calder Valley proposal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Indeed. As I understand it Victoria is the eastern limit of the Lancashire Triangle scheme previously announced. What they are announcing now will have to start at the east end of Victoria and continue eastwards via Stalybridge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I thought they had already agreed to wire up to Stalybridge to alleviate some of the reversals at Victoria and free up platform capacity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) They're definitely building a second bay platform at Stalybridge for this very purpose but I don't believe any wiring has been authorised up to now. Even after electrification of Chat Moss and the Bolton route there are the three diesel trains per hour in total on the two Wigan routes that could be extended to Stalybridge to reduce platform occupany at Victoria (the fourth one already goes to Rochdale). There is also talk of building some west-facing bay platforms on the former Exchange site but I'm not sure if that is going ahead. Edited November 29, 2011 by Edwin_m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Do the Manchester Glasgow TPI,s have good passenger loadings as it seems a long way on a dmu comfortable as the 185,s are? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Whatever units are chosen I hope they will have Griddle Cars! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I wonder who will be the first to model an electrified Delph Branch.... On second thoughts, Nodding Donkeys would be more appropriate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I'm wondering how closely the actual announcement will reflect the informed speculation of the past few days. Whatever the Chancellor says later today you can bet that it won't be the whole story. That may well appear in the next issue of RAIL, ie not the one that hits the bookstalls today. Possibly. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gronk the shunter Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Do the Manchester Glasgow TPI,s have good passenger loadings as it seems a long way on a dmu comfortable as the 185,s are? Even with 6 cars they're usually full and standing by the time they reach Bolton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 It's now comfirmed. Trans-Pennine to be electrified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 "Transpennine Express Route Manchester to Leeds" according to this (5MB file, goto p24). Which on the face of it makes no sense whatever, since hardly any Transpennines terminate at Leeds and there is no platform capacity to allow them to do so in future. I wll explore further... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2011 "Transpennine Express Route Manchester to Leeds" according to this (5MB file, goto p24). Which on the face of it makes no sense whatever, since hardly any Transpennines terminate at Leeds and there is no platform capacity to allow them to do so in future. I wll explore further... It's called the 'Crossrail Deviation' - you announce a scheme and hope it gets a lot of public and opinion maker support so it gets underway. It's then revealed that it would be far better value for money, and the extra cost would be minimal compared with the total, to extend the scheme, or bolt a bit on, to go to a much more logical place at the end of it. I had given up hope for such cleverness in Mardsham Street and 'the railway' but clearly not all of the old skills are dead. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hmm, usually played against the DfT rather than by it. And Crossrail hasn't been extended to Reading yet as far as I know! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 .....And Crossrail hasn't been extended to Reading yet as far as I know! I've got a feeling that's an announcement that will be kept under wraps for a fair while. Another "political triumph" locked away safely in the piggy bank, as it were; to be pulled out when the time is right. They can afford to do that as most pieces of the "jig-saw" are already steadily falling into place. . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 DfT have rearranged the TP and Northern franchises to finish on the same day, clearing the decks for some sort of re-structuring. Manchester-Leeds is indeed very crowded, but all four trains per hour go beyond Leeds at present so if electric all of them would have to terminate from both east and west (or perhaps something else extended through to the east instead). All passengers going through Leeds today would have to change trains. Most of the west-facing bays at Leeds would need a Transpennine to cross most of the other tracks to reach them. Despite being rebuilt ten years ago Leeds station is bursting at the seams and I just don't see any of that being feasiblle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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