55F Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Sorry about thisgents, I know the topic has been done to death and I feel/felt that I had a good understanding of the wiring principles........not exactly rocket science but it feels that way at the moment. Therefore seeking your indulgence. Peco 3 way electrofrog to dead end sidings Seep PM1 Seep wires soldered and connected to a choc block, to which the various connections are made. Have treble checked connections and feel that the problem must be simple but I am unable to fathom out what that is! With point set to turn left - loco enters siding. No problem With point set for straight on - loco stops at frog, however if the loco is lifted and placed on the 'turn right' siding, [without switching the point] the track is powered and loco operates With point set to turn right - loco stops at frog. however if the loco is lifted and placed on the 'straight on' siding, [without switching the point] the track is powered and loco operates Help please and again apologies for returning to this topic 55f Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted January 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2012 Sounds like the polarity of the RH crossing is not being set correctly - could just be a case of swapping the feed over. But without a diagram of how you have done it its difficult to say. Can you post a diagrammatic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
55F Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 ikcdab....thanks for your interest in helping. Not up to speed on a diagram but terminals connected as follows...... On both Seep motors terminal D is connected to the [same] track section feed; terminal E is connected to the track common return. The frogs are connected to the relevant motor as described in the Peco leaflet [and I have noted that the diagram is as viewed from underneath]. The motor wiring is ok, points fires without problem. Space under the three way point dictates that the two motors are fixed the opposite way round [to accommodate the wiring] and after your post the penny dropped that this would cause a polarity problem?? So, on the motor nearest the frogs I tried changing the feed and common return wires around.......result, loco stops at the frog whichever route is selected.! Plot thickens! Sorry if this is getting too complicated. Bearing in mind that the motors face opposite directions, perhaps you could clarify to which point terminals the track feed & return should be wired for the two motors? Many thanks for your forbearance, I feel that I am missing something simple. 55f Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyShoe Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 So if you changethe one nearest the frogs back and then change the other one? The trouble with connecting D and E is the function of C D E swaps when you turn the motor round because they are switched by the solenoid post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2012 Have a look at Brian Lambert's diagrams here - http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-2.htm One of the issues with the Peco 3-way is that some of the connectivity is provided just by blade to stock rail contact. This can result in locos stopping on the frog because the stock rail is dead even though the frog is OK. The solution is to bond the stock rails underneath in the same way as you do with standard Electrofrog points. I have 3 of these points and all three have had to have an extra dropper or two added after they developed intermittent dead spots. When the points are re-used on my next layout I'll put the bonding there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
55F Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 All help very much appreciated......Shinyshoe........you got it! It all works. Must now think about this and get it clear in my head as to what I have done and why it is working! [i have several more to fit]. RFS thanks.....rest assured I had studied Brian's site.....I nearly know it off by heart....and I still got it wrong! Most annoying!! I am aware of the stock rail issue. Thanks gents. 55f Many thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyShoe Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I usually solder CDE but don't connect to rails. Fit the point then manually work the points and use a volt meter set to ohms with the power on the rails off to measure continuity and work out which leads head where. Then twist them to droppers on the rails and test with power live before setting the twist in solder. Sometimes just following the current by eye is the same thing. But if I ever solder completely before screwing down the motor it is gaurunteed wrong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi So as anyone reading this correctly understands.... Seeps use ' F' as the change-over switches common moving connection and ' D' or ' E' as the switched connections. So depending on the position of the point motor the switch can make between - F and D or F and E. ' F' being connected to the points frog where electrofrog points are used. ' A', ' B' & ' C' are the motor coil connections with 'C' being the two coils common return conection. ' A ' & ' B' being the coils feed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyShoe Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yes sorry I've said CDE and should have said DEF .. I never was very good at my alphabet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
55F Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 All very interesting and I'm annoyed with myself about this problem as I have spent many hours getting to grips with the electrickery and in particular the electrofrog business. What caught me out was the fact that with the three way, the two motors are fitted 'the opposite way round' and I don't recall reading a warning about this!! Unfortunately the accompanying Peco leaflet inevitably describes fitting Peco motors which doesn't help when using Seep motors. Anyway, I live and learn and hopefully some other Forum member may learn from my error.......I have certainly learned a lot from reading Forum posts as I return to the hobby after a number of years. Again many thanks for your time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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