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THE RAMCHESTER CHRONICLES


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39 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Cunning but I didnt think these ever wore plain crimson as they were treated as mainline stock (lined crimson and cream) I think? I've never seen one.

W 80658 is in unlined crimson in the photo on p193 of the Mk1 coaches 'bible' . In the section on the 1949 livery specs Parkin states that 2 batches of Mk1 full brakes 80617-71 and 80965-81014 were given plain crimson finish, all the rest being in 'blood and custard' as you say.  Hope this helps.

Ray.

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1 hour ago, Marshall5 said:

W 80658 is in unlined crimson in the photo on p193 of the Mk1 coaches 'bible' . In the section on the 1949 livery specs Parkin states that 2 batches of Mk1 full brakes 80617-71 and 80965-81014 were given plain crimson finish, all the rest being in 'blood and custard' as you say.  Hope this helps.

Ray.

 

There is always a prototype for everything!

 

Congratulations Rod on getting to page 100!

 

Paul R

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When Howard first posted Ramchester on RMweb I never thought that we would or could reach 100 pages and almost 140.000 views. What a journey it has been, challenging at times but always enjoyable. It has been really nice to "meet" fellow enthusiasts within these pages and to have a few of you visiting the layout. One thing I am very grateful for is that if I had a query over something there has always been someone reading  these pages who has come up with the answer.

 

A great deal has occurred during the last 10 years of construction culminating in the layout being "Railway of the Month" in the April edition of the "Railway Modeller" an achievement of which I am very pleased and proud.

 

Thank you to every one of you who has followed this thread and for the support over the years that you have given me. Don't forget that if you are down this end of the country and would like to see the layout do please get in touch by PM.

 

Rod 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Been having a few problems with my camera not talking to my computer so nothing has been posted for a little while. However I think it is now sorted so here we go.The first picture shows a general view of the goods yard and yes the two chaps are still chatting and drinking tea!!

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Next we have a photo of the station garden usually attended to by the station porter - that's why no one can find him when someone wants cases or luggage carrying! The station cat looks on with a disinterested aire as there is nothing about to attract his attention.

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Jinty 47361 having replenished its water supply awaits the signal to move off the siding to commence its shunting duties.

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Finally here is a shot of the lines only remaining LNWR signal which stand guarding the tunnel entrance. Note the repair job at the base of the post - a nice piece of modelling from Jon Fitness.

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More anon.

 

Rod

 

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Today Howard and I were joined by our friend Peter Martin who popped in to give his new Minerva loco a run and stayed for the rest of the afternoon. We had our usual drinks (tea/coffee) and choccy biscuits and had a chat and a play. Here are a few pictures of his loco.

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Even from this low angle the loco is dwarfed by the ex LMS suburban coaches (Ian Kirk kits - made up for me by Howard).

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It then sets off for the junction.

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As it approaches the tunnel the driver gives a toot, toot on the whistle.

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Class 04 diesel No D2227 makes ready to shunt the suburban coaches into the adjacent platform to form the mid day local to wherever.

 

More soon.

Rod

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The shape of things to come?

 

I have not posted much this week so I thought it was about time to bring readers up to date. Howard and I (more him than me) have been doing bits and bobs down in Platform 2 over the course of the last couple of weeks during which he has continued to work on my BG and today he has made a start on a bit of weathering on my banana wagons while waiting for paint to dry on the BG. I have been looking at the possibility of electrifying the point in the fiddle yard to make operation for me much easier. The problem is that access to the underside of the baseboard is virtually impossible owing to the fact that this yard is build directly over a built in line of shelves containing all my railway books. This necessitates everything being on the baseboard surface but space between the tracks is a little limited with some points so Peco point motors will not fit. I have been thinking about using servos and this seems to be a likely solution. More on this anon.

 

You may be asking yourselves what has this got to do with the title at the head of this post. Well here is the answer. I just could not resist these even though they could not possibly have run into Ramchester other than as a test run. As Howard pointed out two of them have TOPS coding and are thus out of period but rule 1 applies here - I like them and it my layout, lol.

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The four new wagons.

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D2227 shunts them clear of the run round loop into an empty siding.

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These new 24 ton hoppers dwarf my 10 ton mineral wagons which is what the local coal merchant is used to. Will there be a change of period in the future? Probably not but I like these models from Accurascale and am glad I purchased them before they go off the market.

 

Rod

 

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Rod,

 

I would not wish to deter you from servos, but offer an alternative, Wire-in-tube, would be easily buried in the goods yard cobbles and allow remote operation by tortoise or similar.  I did this with the trap on my coal road.  Fiddly to fit, but very effective.  
 

alternatively, Scale Signal Supply do offer etched brass cranks and pivots, so a fairly prototypical arrangement can be  set up using 1/16” brass wire (brazing rod!) and cast w/m stools.  Again, you could use tortoises or servos or a ground frame to operate them

 

hopefully food for thought

atb

Simon

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Rod,

 

How about the Cobalt SS point motors, they are small and can be surface mounted. I think I may have some so I will investigate them tomorrow and give you some feed back.

 

Like Simon I am not in favour of Servo's, a friend swears by them but the amount of noise they can make I'd be swearing at them! :D

 

Peter

 

 

 

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Peter,

 

I’m not at all against servos!  They’re fine for many things, but do need care when used as point motors.

 

Really, just offering a couple of alternatives.

 

atb

Simon

Edited by Simond
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13 minutes ago, Simond said:

Peter,

 

I’m not at all against servos!  They’re fine for many things, but do need care when used as point motors.

 

Really, just offering a couple of alternatives.

 

atb

Simon

Hi Simon,

 

I should have made it clearer and I meant using servos for point motors, I have used them for signals and I have other ideas for their use, but I haven't been convinced from what I've seen when used for point so far.

 

Peter

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Why are you against servos as point motors Simon.  Is it because of noise as that can be dampened down with a small "dense foam" box.  Quality servos are virtually silent, it is a case of you pays your money,,,,,,,,,,.

If it is because of difficulty in setting up travel that can be overcome in several way.  One method I used on my rc aircraft throttle was to have the connection from the servo arm as 1 piece of wire with the throttle link another piece and they ran along side one another held in place by some silicon tube which provided a slip/grip when stops were reached.  The rubber tube grip was enough to push the throttle but when the stop was reached they just slid past each other.  Same going in the other direction, simples. ; ) 

 

Best

 

 

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For the avoidance of doubt, I’M NOT AGAINST SERVOS!!!!!  :)

 

joking aside, let’s get a little bit technical:  servos are very specifically designed to move to a position that eliminates an error signal.  The error signal is the difference between the commanded position and the actual position.  
 

This is fine If your servo is driving the control surfaces of a model plane or boat, or a signal, in that the servo can be set in such a way that it never tries to push the output against a dead stop, so it always can get to it’s commanded position, so 99% of the time, the error signal is zero, the servo is simply sitting there, passively.  
 

If it hits a dead stop, there will (at least, in general) be an error signal because the dead stop and the commanded position will never be identical, and if there’s an error signal, the servo will try to eliminate it, and draw a lot of current, and get rather hot and bothered in doing so, because 99.9% of the time it’s hard against the stop.

 

If you’re trying to operate points, it’s fundamental that the blade is firmly closed against the stock rail.  Anything else will lead to derailment, disappointment, disaster!  I don’t think Barnaby’s slipping linkage is good enough for this on flexible blade points, though it might be on loose heel points.
 

Herein lies the issue with servos and points:  Points require a dead stop, Servos don’t like that.  There are a few ways to avoid the issue.  two below;
 

Some free play in the linkage and an over centre spring per Peco - this is for sure the easiest.

 

An Eccentric on the servo shaft.  The eccentric radius is half the required throw, or very slightly more, and the servo rotates through 180 degrees.  Maybe an omega loop or similar in the linkage to the point.  This is belt and braces, by far the best technical solution but rather complicated and fiddly.

 

Electrically , you do have to control servos, they don’t follow a switch, like a Tortoise.  There are a couple of commercial offerings including Peco & another whose name currently escapes me.  You can always use an Arduino, which you will have to program, this does offer lots of interesting potential, including interlocking, connection to DCC, automation, etc., if programming floats your boat.  When I do progress with my layout, I will go this way.

 

But, returning to Rod’s post, I simply want to offer a couple of alternative ways of dealing with point operation when the “easy” solution of sticking a Tortoise under the board is not an option.

 

(oh, and by the way, I am dead against solenoid point motors!  Horrid, unprototypical, noisy, and unkind to home grown point tiebars! :) )
 

keep well

Simon

 

Edited by Simond
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Ordinary solenoids will be used for some of the points where there is space. Rod has a box of PECO servos which he bought at an exhibition  a couple of years ago which he wants to use where there isn't room between the tracks to fit a solenoid. We have also discussed the possibility of using cranks.

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By definition the force applied to one end of a spring (or omega loop) is equal to that applied by the other end to whatever it’s attached to.   An omega loop will, like any spring, allow a difference in position between the ends, and in so doing, create a force, normally proportional to the deflection of one end with respect to the other.

 

This will reduce the load on a servo somewhat, but it will not eliminate it.  I’d expect that to reduce the tendency to overheat, and to extend the life of the servo, but the aim of the game is to really minimise any resting load.  
 

Rather than bog down Rod’s thread, I think we should discuss this elsewhere.  If anyone is still interested, let me know and I’ll create a thread where we can chatter away without inconveniencing anyone else!


cheers

Simon

 

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13 hours ago, HSB said:

I finally finished fitting the bits inside the guards compartment on the Mk1 BG although in reality once the roof is on they will be almost invisible!

IMG_20201102_151138.jpg.2ccafcbcb2bb7742fdb8d6f2e45c4f03.jpg 

 

Ah yes Howard but you know they are there!  I am a bit like you. I want to put in all the detail even though you cant see it. I get really frustrated when I build a kit and bits of the underframe are missing. Why is it for example that virtually nobody include brake safety hoops?

 

Keep up the good work I am enjoying the build

 

Paul R

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As requested here are some pictures of the fiddle yard where you will see the problem on one or two points. If I had access to the underside of the baseboard it would be easy to instal motors with a shaft protruding above the surface with a crank. In some cases I think that I will have to mount the motors towards the front and connect  them to the points through wire in tube. There is plenty of space to do this at the front and it would make wiring easier for me. We will see what takes my fancy.

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The above shot shows the throat of the fiddle yard and gives an idea of the challenge.

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The point at the top is quite close to the wall but there might - just - be enough space for a motor with a crank to fit in parallel to the track but for me wiring it would be almost impossible. The one in front is very restricted and I think wire in tube to the front is going to be the only answer. There is no problem with the point in the bottom of the photo as the motor can be mounted easily here.

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Again there is no problem with the point at the bottom of the picture but the one further back is restricted.

 

Rod

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I see what you mean Rod. There's a few that are quite tight there but could possibly have point motors at a right angle to the points with a 90 degree crank to transfer the motion. Others, as you suggest, could have wire in tube under the adjacent tracks to point solenoids at the front of the board. Your foam underlay can really help there as it makes it easier to pass operating rods under the tracks.

JF

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Hello Jon.

 

You reached the same conclusion as me and as it happens Howard has given me some cranks which will hopefully help to solve the problem. All I have to do now is to get stuck into the job as quickly as possible.

 

By the way how is the bus getting on? Is it finished yet? I would like to see a picture of it when it is nearing completion.

 

Rod

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  • HSB changed the title to THE RAMCHESTER CHRONICLES

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