Welcome to S scale

[Phil Copleston]

Well Phil, that is not the reply that I was expecting!

 

Well, that's S scale for you: S is for Surprising!

 

So are there any layouts bigger than fiddle yard - 3 yards out - 3 yards back - fiddle yard?

 

Oh yes, there are indeed several well known larger S scale layouts which are currently (or were once) on the exhibition circuit.

 

For instance, bigger-than-your-average-branch-terminus layouts are 'East Lynn & Nunstanton' (GER, soon to be retired as a home layout), 'Kilbrandon' (Irish BG), 'Yaxbury' and rest of branch (BR(E), was an exhibition layout, now a home system), 'Thame' (GWR, now retired), 'Wandle Valley' (LBSC, resident in Canada and currently being replaced with another large S scale layout), and 'Kopikopiko' (New Zealand Sn3½, was an exhibition layout, now part of a larger UK-based home system), to name but a few. Also of note is an extensive UK-based American prototype home layout based on the Palatine, Lake Zurich & Wauconda Railroad ('The Old Maud') branch in Illinois being built by one of our members.

 

Check out our SSMRS layout galleries here http://www.s-scale.org.uk/gallery.htm, and Ian Hammond's NZ S scale blog here http://uknzrmodeling.blogspot.co.uk/. A glimpse of Mike Cleverley's extensive UK-based American layout can be seen here http://sprockets.myz...eJun2012Web.PDF, here http://sprockets.myz...SGazetteWeb.PDF (scroll down on both these links), and here http://groups.yahoo....693261/pic/list.

 

Anyway, I hope the above convinces you that we don't just do small branch line termini (although we do those as well). As in any other scale, you can make S scale and our exact scale track and wheel standards work on layouts large or small, it's just a matter of diligence and practice. I hope you are persuaded to have a go too!

Edited September 29, 2012 by Phil Copleston

[tpm1ca]

Hello everyone:

 

I'm new to RMweb, and to this forum. I'm in Canada and a life-long model railway enthusiast but relatively new to S scale. I chose S because southern Ontario has a number of very talented modellers working in 1:64, and they inspired me.

 

About two years ago, I started building my first S scale layout - based on a small branch line of the Canadian National Railway in southern Ontario. It's still very much a work in progress. I have an extensive blog documenting my model railway. Enjoy if you visit.

 

I've always been interested in the modelling scene outside of North America and often find interesting sources of information or product as a result. It's nice to find some S scale enthusiasts here and I hope to glean ideas I can use in my own endeavours.

 

Cheers!

 

- Trevor

 

---

 

Phil: Nice job setting up this forum. I would add one more North American resource: The S Scale Special Interest Group. Unlike the NASG, which has a broad mandate to cater to scale and American Flyer/HiRail modellers, the S Scale SIG focuses on promoting scale modeling in 1:64.

 

Edited September 5, 2013 by tpm1ca

[backofanenvelope]

Hi Trevor,

 

Welcome to RMweb and looking forward to seeing more from you! Missing the podcast but still keep listening over as still picking up interesting stuff and as a MRR Podcast lurker enjoyed the S scale chat with ChrisA on that. Not sure I will ever build anything in S but have always had a soft spot to the scale.

Regards

Tom

[tpm1ca]

Hi Tom:

 

Welcome to RMweb and looking forward to seeing more from you! Missing the podcast but still keep listening over as still picking up interesting stuff and as a MRR Podcast lurker enjoyed the S scale chat with ChrisA on that.

 

Thanks for the welcome. Most of my posts go to my blog - there's a page on the blog about how to follow it. But I'll try to post things here that might be of interest to the international community.

I miss the podcast too somedays. But it was taking a lot of time away from my modelling. I've been getting a lot more done since we turned off the mics in April. Maybe someday...

Cheers!

- Trevor

[trisonic]

Trevor, we also have a "USA and Canadian Railroads" section (all scales), pay a visit!

 

I've got no further with S Scale thus far - too busy with real life at present....

 

Later, Pete.

[Phil Copleston]

Hello everyone:

 

I'm new to RMweb, and to this forum. I'm in Canada and a life-long model railway enthusiast but relatively new to S scale. I chose S because southern Ontario has a number of very talented modellers working in 1:64, and they inspired me.

 

About two years ago, I started building my first S scale layout - based on a small branch line of the Canadian National Railway in southern Ontario. It's still very much a work in progress. I have an extensive blog documenting my model railway. Enjoy if you visit.

 

I've always been interested in the modelling scene outside of North America and often find interesting sources of information or product as a result. It's nice to find some S scale enthusiasts here and I hope to glean ideas I can use in my own endeavours.

 

Cheers!

 

- Trevor

 

---

 

Phil: Nice job setting up this forum. I would add one more North American resource: The S Scale Special Interest Group. Unlike the NASG, which has a broad mandate to cater to scale and American Flyer/HiRail modellers, the S Scale SIG focuses on promoting scale modeling in 1:64.

 

Hi Trevor,

 

Good to hear from you and welcome to RMweb and the S scale forum!

 

The S scale scene on this side of the pond is a quite small affair compared to North America (considered a rather 'niche' modelling scale by many) with little commercial support, and has a slightly different history and is older, with origins dating back to the 1920s and even 1890s. But one of the great things about S scale is that we share a common scale (not often that Brits and North Americans can agree on that!) and we can share and learn from each other directly. What a fascinating scale this is! 

 

Yes, I am sure you will find much to interest and inspire you on these pages, and on the S scale MRS website too, so dig deep. Thanks for the compliment but much on this forum is thanks to the efforts of all of its contributors and their posts. Anyway, welcome and do tell us more about your S scale modelling - and please post often! 

 

BTW, I already subscribe to your 'Port Rowan in S scale' blog and am much inspired by it. Superb modelling and ideas. Thank you.

[chrismears]

Thought I'd say "Hello" in here too. I'm a big fan of Trevor's podcast and Port Rowan layout. It's a real inspiration in so many ways. Until coming across this forum, I'd really had no idea of the quality of work being done in S scale of late.

 

I've worked in 3mm before and always felt that it was just big enough in all the right places compared to my native N scale to make making models so much more enjoyable. Over the past few evenings I've been reprinting some drawings from my collection in 1/64 and am getting that same sense again. I've just sent in my membership to the S Scale Society and think I'll order some parts to get that first wagon or two built. Track-making is my favourite part of hobby and may give a sample of that a go too.

 

Thanks to everyone in this forum for sharing your work. You're a terrific group of ambassadors for this scale and present a wonderful impression. Browsing through topics here was certainly a major influence in favour of the scale for me. Thanks.

[tpm1ca]

Anyway, welcome and do tell us more about your S scale modelling - and please post often! 

 

BTW, I already subscribe to your 'Port Rowan in S scale' blog and am much inspired by it. Superb modelling and ideas. Thank you.

 

 

Thanks for the warm welcome, Phil - and I'm glad you're enjoying my blog.

 

As I mentioned in my introduction, I'm relatively new to the scale. I was introduced to it by friends in Southern Ontario who are S scalers. Several of them have home layouts, but I got to know them because they adapted the US Free-mo HO modular system (itself adapted from Fremo from Germany, if I have my facts right). The group - known as the S Scale Workshop - created standards that worked for what they wanted to do in 1:64, and built modules to display at local shows, around the theme of Canadian National Railway branch line operations in the 1950s. Modules are a mix of scenes based on real locations, and freelanced efforts.

 

A friend of mine, Chris Abbott, is a member and several years ago he needed space to build his module. I had space in my layout room, so we built his contribution there. It was my first exposure to scale S - and because I had a hand in the module the group decided to welcome me as a member.

At that point, I thought, "Well, even before I build a module of my own I should really get something to run on the Workshop's layout". So I spoke with Workshop member Simon Parent, who designed kits for CNR steam engines. These are the "etched and cast" style that will be familiar to many UK modellers. Simon also builds up the kits for sale as RTR models, and the next time he did a batch of CNR 4-6-0s I had him build two for me. My main interests in the hobby lay elsewhere at the time, and I knew I would never build the kits.

 

Fast forward a bit, and about three years ago I realized that I had not touched my layout in many months. I was unhappy with a number of aspects - many related to my attempts to model in O scale in my layout room. I started looking at other options. About a year went past as I tried to make O scale work. Then one day I hauled out the S scale CNR 4-6-0s and ran them on a piece of flextrack - and I realized they were the nicest, smoothest, quietest running locomotives I owned.

 

I started looking for prototype inspiration, found Port Rowan, drew two layout plans and realized I had a good thing. A quick check of available equipment - could I get essential things like passenger cars - and I was off and running.

 

Layout construction started in October of 2011. There's much more on my blog (as you know, Phil - but other readers may not). Here's the link: http://themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s

 

For anybody new to the blog, I have created a "First Time Here?" page. It's a pretty good place to start.

 

Enjoy if you visit!

 

- Trevor

Edited September 8, 2013 by tpm1ca

[tpm1ca]

I should add that I have yet to build my own module for the S Scale Workshop exhibition layout. I've been too busy working on my home layout.

 

I should also add that I help maintain the S Scale Workshop blog. There are links on the blog to two articles about the Workshop that have appeared in the North American hobby press (shared with permission). Here are the links:

 

Canadian Railway Modeller - May/June 2008

 

Railroad Model Craftsman - May 2008

 

A lot has been done on the S Scale Workshop's layout since those articles were published more than five years ago. But they'll give everybody an idea of what the S Scale Workshop is about.

 

Cheers!

 

- Trevor

[tpm1ca]

Trevor, we also have a "USA and Canadian Railroads" section (all scales), pay a visit!

 

I've got no further with S Scale thus far - too busy with real life at present....

 

Later, Pete.

Hi Pete:

Thanks for the head's up - I'll have a look.

Cheers!

- Trevor

[tpm1ca]

Hello everyone:

 

I have a problem that I think the UK members of of this group can help me solve...

 

On my S scale layout, I run some passenger coaches with three-axle bogies (or, as we'd say in North America, six-wheel trucks). They do not track well and I blame two things:

 

1 - The plastic side-frames have no bearings, so the axles ride in holes drilled in the plastic.

2 - The bogies are completely rigid - no compensation or springing.

 

I'd like to address the problem by building a subframe for each bogie, incorporating rigid beam compensation - then add the plastic side frames to the outside as cosmetic enhancements.

 

I've read the Flexi-Chas book and understand the concept but don't want to reinvent the wheel if somebody out there already offers a suitable kit for such. Knowing there are many cottage industry style manufacturers in the UK, does anybody know of someone who does such kits - in, say, photo etch - to custom dimensions? I would mail the person a set of wheels and sideframes so they could take their own measurements.

 

Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to provide...

 

Cheers!

 

- Trevor

[tpm1ca]

I'd like to address the problem by building a subframe for each bogie, incorporating rigid beam compensation - then add the plastic side frames to the outside as cosmetic enhancements.

 

An update: I wrangled a friend with a laser cutter into designing some subframes for me.

 

I've installed them on two of my three pieces of passenger equipment and have been doing tests. They're working really, really well.

 

I've written about them on my blog. Here's the post showing the subframes...

http://themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s/?p=3837

 

... and here's a post describing my first tests...

 

http://themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s/?p=3851

 

Enjoy if you visit!

 

- Trevor

[Larryneworleans]

Hi,

 

I have an s-scale layout based on the NYC High LIne.

 

I would like any information British or European protoype S-scale locomotive shells or car shells or mechanisms

 

Thanks

 

Larry JAneski

 

 

[Phil Copleston]

I have an s-scale layout based on the NYC High LIne.

 

I would like any information British or European protoype S-scale locomotive shells or car shells or mechanisms

 

Hi Larry,

 

Thanks for your inquiry. You ask about British and European locomotive and rolling stock shells and mechanisms - the short answer is there aren't any! (hardly) But see below.

 

The British S scale modelling scene is quite different from the USA. There has never been any significant commercial support for 1:64 scale modelling in Britain. There is no ready-to-run, just a few etched brass loco kits available and some etched brass, whitemetal, lazer-cut card or resin rolling stock body kits, most of which are supplied via the S Scale Model Railway Society (SSMRS): http://www.s-scale.org.uk/  Consequently, there is nothing like American Flyer or "Hi-rail" or "Tinplate" or a collector's scene in British S scale, just the good honest craft of 1:64 model-making!

 

Instead, the 100-or-so active British S scale modellers focus on scratchbuilding or designing and constructing their own basic body shells, adding or adapting parts from the range of components available from the SSMRS. Loco mechanisms are usually completely hand made or utilising 4mm (1:76, OO) motors, gears and bearings. Actually, we like S scale this way - to be different from commercial 4mm or HO scale modelling and to attract people who seek something a bit different and more of a challenge. Take a look on the SSMRS webpages (above) for "Parts" and "Gallery" to see photos of kits and components and completed models. You have to be an SSMRS member to buy the parts, though. By the way, like American S, all British S scale standard gauge runs on 22.45mm gauge, but to ultra-fine wheel profile and track standards (finer than Proto:64): http://www.s-scale.org.uk/standards.htm

 

This video shows the entirely scratchbuilt S scale layout 'East Lynn & Nunstanton' by Trevor Nunn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM5iByK-G5A

 

As for European S scale... almost non-existant! I know of a handfull of dedicated European modellers who have scratchbuilt German standard gauge and Swedish narrow gauge prototypes in 1:64 scale, but this is highly unusual (and they are mostly SSMRS members). In the 1950s and '60s the former East German firm of Stadtilm produced some toy-like plastic and printed tinplate German-prototype models running on 22.5mm gauge, marketed as "Stadtilm Spur S aus dem DDR". Here is a collector's page (in German) to give you an idea: http://www.seppelbahn.de/SpurS.htm and this video shows it running: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ6jV9gn45k  As you can see, Stadtilm Spur S was quite crude, but is still collectable. Search on http://www.ebay.de  for "Stadtilm Spur S" or "Spur S" to see what is around.  

 

Of course, S scale (1:64) modelling is also popular in Australia and New Zealand (and to a limited extent in South Africa) for 1,067mm (3ft 6ins) narrow gauge prototypes in the form of Sn3½. Here are two examples of Sn3½ modelling (in the UK): Ian Hammond's New Zealand prototype ‘Kopikopiko’ exhibition layout http://www.s-scale.org.uk/gallery21.htm and Andy May’s Western Australian prototype rolling stock http://homepage.ntlworld.com/asmay2002/models.htm

 

So, if you are looking for quick and easy S scale British and European 'shells' and mechanisms to add variety to your NYC layout, then you won't find any. Sorry. But if you are keen to learn about the diverse and fascinating wider world of 1:64 scale model-making, then you'll be delighted by what you find outside of the U.S., I am sure. Hope this reply is of interest. Good luck!

Edited November 24, 2014 by Phil Copleston

[Ewerthon_Mota]

--------------------

" By the way, like American S, all British S scale standard gauge runs on 22.45mm gauge, but to ultra-fine wheel profile and track standards (finer than Proto:64): http://www.s-scale.o...k/standards.htm "--------------

 

Hello Phil. Could you expand your thoughts a bit better regarding British-S been finer than proto:64? At least for what I read, proto:64 it´s the ultimate in high fidelity (I haven´t see any photos, neither have seen one personally), so how SSMRS could be finer than that?

 

I also see on the standards website that you also have a Irish Gauge section, its just the gauge that changes or there more differences?

[rockershovel]

Well, whatever scale they are, that model is very atmospheric

[Phil Copleston]

Hello Phil. Could you expand your thoughts a bit better regarding British-S been finer than proto:64? At least for what I read, proto:64 it´s the ultimate in high fidelity (I haven´t see any photos, neither have seen one personally), so how SSMRS could be finer than that?

 

I also see on the standards website that you also have a Irish Gauge section, its just the gauge that changes or there more differences?

 

Indeed I can. British S scale standards are essentially the prototype dimensions divided by 64, whereas American so-called "Proto 64" is NOT the ultimate, as some might assume, but in fact incorporates a number of compromises.

 

I have prepared this Comparison Table on the link below which I think adequately demonstrates the difference between prototype dimensions (reduced by 64), SSMRS track and wheel standards, and those of Proto:64 and NMRA S scale. Admittedly, the differences between SSMRS standards and Proto 64 are not great, but it makes for an interesting perusal.

 

I have experimented with some NW Shortline Proto 64 freight car wheelsets and by tweeking their back-to-back wheel faces they will run through the finer SSMRS trackwork.

 

S Scale Standards

 

 

As for the Irish broad gauge standards (and indeed Brunel broad gauge or narrow gauge standards), these are the same as for SSMRS standard gauge dimensions except that the gauge-related figures are altered in proportion.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Phil Copleston

[Phil Copleston]

All due respect, Phil, but that is tosh. UK and US prototype track standards are slightly different, mostly in terms of back to back - such that UK wheels can run on US track, but not vice versa without some adjustment to the back to back.

 

P:64 simply replicates these differences - as you have demonstrated.

 

Simon,

 

I think that is what I said: the main difference is in the wheelset back-to-backs and the trackwork.

[LNWR18901910]

I've never owned S Scale before and I have never seen any S Scale trains in real-life before. So, what is it like?

[flubrush]

I've never owned S Scale before and I have never seen any S Scale trains in real-life before. So, what is it like?

 

Here's a URL to the Gallery pages of the UK S Scale Society

 

http://www.s-scale.org.uk/gallery.htm

 

This will give you some idea of what UK S scale modellers do although it is worth seeing an actual layout at an exhibition to appreciate the increase in size from 4mm scale (about +17%).  Here's a list of S scale layouts at upcoming exhibitions over the next month or so - hopefully you might be close enough to at least one of them to be able to visit.

 

Jas Millham's Abbey Street at the Bury St. Edmunds exhibition - 22nd September

Jas Millham's Abbey Street at the Chelmsford exhibition - 20th October

Trevor Nunn's "Trowland" at Beckenham and West Wickham exhibition - 20th October

Trevor Nunn's "Trowland" at Spalding exhibition - 3rd/4th November

Trevor Nunn's "Trowland" at Portsmouth exhibition - 17th November

My layout "Jameston & Leven River"at the Thornbury exhibition - 17th/18th November

 

Jas' and Trevor's layouts are scratchbuilt British outline layouts whereas my layout is North American style using mainly RTR locos and rolling stock from the US,  but with scratchbuilt track and buildings.

 

Jim.

Edited September 11, 2018 by flubrush