Scrap Metal: Site Arrangements and Train Consists

[0O00]

Hi All

 

I would like to read some published articles about scrap metal sites with rail served facilities as well as scrap metal consists, particularly in respect of operations in the 70's through to the 90's. Area(s) of focus are Northern England and West Midlands.

 

I've seen some footage of Shipley and various photos in books showing 37's and such like on short rakes of POA's and HSA's. I'm sure there is more to know.

 

From a modelling perspective, I have read about Eagle Lane in Railway Modeller this year. Are there any others of a similar ilk that spring to mind?

 

Any help/direction would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Alex

[rob D2]

Hi,

There has been a few articles in Model Rail.One centred on the scrap yard in Northampton Castle Yard which made a good little layout filler, I believe this is still active.

 

There was also an article on Richard Coleman's layout depicting a scrap yard in the 80s (?) in another edition and i think REX did an article on modelling scrap trains.

 

I can't recall off hand what editions these were in though.

[JohnH]

Hi Alex,

 

Not got any specific book references, but I took quite an interest in the scrap traffic from Norton Metals in Trafford Park, Manchester in the late 80's.

 

Trains were loaded usually with 'Frag' - Fragmented Scrap Metal, for transfer to ASW in Cardiff. Traffic was often carried in Black Adder POA's of at least 2 different types. Sometimes HSA's were used and I also have some prints somewhere of HEA's in the consists (although they may well have been un re-coded HSA's) These wagons were often in a terrible state. On one occasion I recall a train of 7 HSA/HEA's being loaded by a magnetic grab and 3 of the wagons had fairly severe damage to the sides and tops. One HSA had a large length of body panel literally hanging off the rest of the wagon! Presumably this HSA would have been 'Red Carded' when it reached the BR exchange yard.

 

The layout at Nortons was a simple dead end siding that curved into their yard from the road. The trains were often worked with 2 08's top & tail to avoid too much propelling on the internal Estate railway.

 

There were some quite detailed photos/descriptions of the Nortons traffic on the old forum.

[Fat Controller]

Hi All

 

I would like to read some published articles about scrap metal sites with rail served facilities as well as scrap metal consists, particularly in respect of operations in the 70's through to the 90's. Area(s) of focus are Northern England and West Midlands.

 

I've seen some footage of Shipley and various photos in books showing 37's and such like on short rakes of POA's and HSA's. I'm sure there is more to know.

 

From a modelling perspective, I have read about Eagle Lane in Railway Modeller this year. Are there any others of a similar ilk that spring to mind?

 

Any help/direction would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Alex

Probably worth seeking out the various 'Freight Only' books by Michael Rhodes and Paul Shannon, which had quite a lot of views of scrapyards throughout the country. Mr Shannon's more recent book, 'Railfreight Since 1968- Bulk Freight' also has some useful stuff.

I believe some shots are near to The Hawthorns.....

[eastwestdivide]

In the 1970s/early 1980s, scrap to Sheerness changed over from 16T minerals to more modern stock, notably the Sheerness steel big box opens, the first few of which were built on former Sheerness Steel bogie bolster-type wagons. I think the 4-wheel air-braked scrap wagons in blue/yellow came in around the early 1980s too, although they weren't common at Sheerness at that time. May have some photos of scrap trains if they're of interest, but will take a few days to lay my hands on them.

[Mark Saunders]

Try the Model Railway Constructor series on the POA (later SSA) Standard Railfreight type puublished in the mid 1980's.

 

Includes drawings by Trevor Mann.

 

Mark Saunders

[hmrspaul]

Try the Model Railway Constructor series on the POA (later SSA) Standard Railfreight type published in the mid 1980's.

 

Includes drawings by Trevor Mann.

 

Mark Saunders

 

The references to the articles are

 

Mann, Trevor., (l986) Modern P O wagons Railease 'POA' open scrap carriers. Model Railway Constructor vol. 53 (part 629) pp 508, 530 - 533.

 

Drawings - RLS5900 diag. 6/539/POO10A (385); RLS5909 diag. POO10B (375).

 

Mann, Trevor., (1986) Modern P O wagons Railease 51.0 tonnes GLW two - axle open scrap carriers, Part 2 the 1984 'POA' scheme. Model Railway Constructor vol. 53 (part 630) pp 564, 582 - 585.

 

Drawings - RLS5032 diag. POO14A (371); RLS5923 Diag. POO10C/D (372).

 

Mann, Trevor., (1986) Modern P O wagons Railease 51.0 tonnes GLW two - axle open scrap carriers, Part 3 the 1984 'POA' scheme. Model Railway Constructor vol. 53 (part 631) pp 636 - 641, 665.

 

Photographs of scrap carrying wagons at

 

"Sheerness Steel PR3000 - 7as bolsters and scrap box" (C#68067) (18 total)

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c68067.html

 

"Sheerness Steel scrap carriers POA, PXA" (C#1717997) ??“ 31 (35) photographs

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1717997.html

 

Scrap wagon variety - 17 photographs

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c407302.html

 

"ASW Black Adder scrap wagons POA" (C#777680) ??“ 35 photographs

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c777680.html

 

There are also mineral wagons carrying scrap.

 

Regards

Paul

York

[Dieselbob]

Hi Alex

 

I'm very interested in scrap metal wagons myself, especially the Big bogie box sheerness steel wagons. seeing the links from Paul takes me back to days of spottin at March, Whitemoor yard (Mecca for speedlink).

Many years age I was working (contractor electrician) at ferrous fragmentisers, a rail served scrap yard in willesden, London.

There was one of the Sheerness Steel wagons in the siding at the time and i spent a couple of hours drawing and taking measurements with the intention of scratch building a couple of them. Alas now that I have time to do it I cannot find the drawings, I think they would be an easy subject and its a wonder one of the ready to run companies havn't turned them out.

Has anyone come across one of them in a siding anywhere lateley (if any survived that is) I would love another chance to do a measure up.

While reading this thread I have just emailed a chap called Ian Jenkins who uploaded the Sheerness Steel wagon to UKTrainsim, with regard to drawings etc, will let you know how I ger on.

Cheers

Bob

[0O00]

Guys

 

Thanks for your help on this.

 

I think I ought to hobtain Rail Express Modeller for Feb 2005. I recall buying the Shannon 'Bulk Freight' book but I think its hiding up in the loft somewhere. Will take a few moments to search it out.

 

Paul, great site, I should have looked on there before but I obviously needed prompting! Wood for the trees etc.

 

I have thoughts on a scrap themed layout (amongst many) so just weighing up if it is something that I really want to do.

 

Thanks again!

 

Alex

[mjh]

Nigel Burkin had a decent chapter on scrap metal wagons (and his modelling of them) in Model Railway Handbook No10: Modern Wagons in 4mm. ISBN is 1-871608-69-4.

There is a little coverage in his newer book 'Modern Wagons in 4mm scale'.

 

Rail Freight - today, by Anthony and Rogers (ISBN 0-86093-439-X), includes information and some pictures of scrap traffic particularly in the North East of England in the Speedlink era.

 

DEMUs 'UPDate' journal had a number of scrap metal wagon articles way back when, I'm sure they could advise if you contact them which back issue are relevant.

 

Bear in mind it wasn't until the mid-80s that modern wagons were made available for scrap traffic. Prior to that (and for a good few years after that!) battered old minerals wagons usually ended up on scrap metal traffic.

[George Woodcock]

Hello

 

The site at Northampton has now ceased operation. It was for the disposal of scrap rail and the Model Rail article was by my good friend Richard Coleman.

 

Cheers

 

George

[cobbler]

Hi Alex

 

Have a look at the Rail Express articles in December 2004 and February 2005 for ideas. There was a great article on the Trafford Park railway and Norton Metals workings in the April 2009 issue.

 

If you have a look on Fotopic and type in scrapyards or scrap trains, lots of goodies pop up. Ther are some great shots on there recently of a class 08 shunting at Braunstone Gate in Leicester in the 1980,s plus lots at Shipley.

My layout "Eagle Lane" has a scrapyard which is very loosely based on Bilston in the West Midlands where a small scrapyard was served by short trains and class 08 or 20 locos on trip freights.

 

The Rail Yard at Northampton has been closed for a couple of years, once the WCML upgrade started to move away the yard closed.

 

Richard

[0O00]

Thanks guys

 

Richard, Eagle Lane is a cracker. Great attention to detail and the 'right' era for me!

 

Still toying with this general idea/principle for a small layout...

[Southernman46]

The loads could be pretty interesting too - I do remember on at last two occasions seeing a train to Sheerness comprised of MCV's (in the very late 70's / early 80's when Swindon was scrapping BR locos like billy-ho) once with the nose of a "Peak" & once with a Class 25 cab sticking up out of a wagon - wagons full of wagon wheels were very common too. These trains would normally be 30-35 fitted 16T mineral wagons MCV's with a couple of empty bogie bolsters BDV's attached that would return with the scrap empties loaded with steel re-inforcing rods or bars.

 

Always a single Crompton.....

 

Sheerness steelworks also possessed some internal user wagons that were the same or very similar to the original BR POA / SSA type wagons but unfitted - seemed a bit extravagant but they were there.

[Taigatrommel]

I don't know how useful this is, but here's a view of the Shipley yard in September last year. No wagons visible but it should give an idea of the materials handled. I photographed four locos from the road bridge that day- remarkable for such a small site.

 

[Flood]

Sorry to thrust this thread back into life but it's better than starting a new one.

 

I'm looking at modelling 8E16 the 09.30 Bescot to Tinsley of which there is a photo in BR Freight Services in Focus solely showing the front three MCVs carrying scrap metal.

 

Basically I'm guessing that the consist would have been a mixed vacuum and handbrake only freight but I'm wondering how many wagons would have been carrying scrap on a typical day. Just the first five or so or would there have been enough scrap generated to make a full train of 30 odd wagons?

 

If you have any idea please reply and if anyone has any photos available that would also be a great help.

[Fat Controller]

Sorry to thrust this thread back into life but it's better than starting a new one.

 

I'm looking at modelling 8E16 the 09.30 Bescot to Tinsley of which there is a photo in BR Freight Services in Focus solely showing the front three MCVs carrying scrap metal.

 

Basically I'm guessing that the consist would have been a mixed vacuum and handbrake only freight but I'm wondering how many wagons would have been carrying scrap on a typical day. Just the first five or so or would there have been enough scrap generated to make a full train of 30 odd wagons?

 

If you have any idea please reply and if anyone has any photos available that would also be a great help.

I think you'd find the consist varied from day to day; the train would have conveyed wagons from perhaps a dozen or so scrap yards. Some scrapyards would wait until they had a contract for several hundred tons, and send out a raft of a couple of dozen wagons, whilst others might just send a couple of wagons, but on a daily basis. If local foundries were paying more than distant steelworks, then there might be no traffic at all.

When was the photo in question taken? That would have some bearing on the number of wagons, as after 1985, a lot of the regular scrap traffic from the West Midland went over to Speedlink, using the new air-braked opens belonging to Railease.

[Flood]

I think you'd find the consist varied from day to day; the train would have conveyed wagons from perhaps a dozen or so scrap yards. Some scrapyards would wait until they had a contract for several hundred tons and send out a raft of a couple of dozen wagons, whilst others might just send a couple of wagons, but on a daily basis.

That makes sense, nice to know that I can model nearly a full rake of scrap traffic

 

When was the photo in question taken?

The photo is from September 1980. I've another photo from August 1980 of a southbound train with a vent van, 3 vacuum braked minerals, an open, 15 vacuum braked minerals, another open, 8 handbrake only minerals and a guards van. As this train is empty it would tend to suggest it is the return working of the Bescot - Tinsley. The mix of batches of minerals could have been created from them being formed from different locations. As no coal traffic would have been worked North from Bescot then I'm guessing the returning empty minerals must have been needed in the Birmingham area for scrap traffic.

[Fat Controller]

That makes sense, nice to know that I can model nearly a full rake of scrap traffic

 

 

The photo is from September 1980. I've another photo from August 1980 of a southbound train with a vent van, 3 vacuum braked minerals, an open, 15 vacuum braked minerals, another open, 8 handbrake only minerals and a guards van. As this train is empty it would tend to suggest it is the return working of the Bescot - Tinsley. The mix of batches of minerals could have been created from them being formed from different locations. As no coal traffic would have been worked North from Bescot then I'm guessing the returning empty minerals must have been needed in the Birmingham area for scrap traffic.

There might have been coal traffic working north from Bescot, in the form of anthracite from South Wales, but it does seem probable these wagons were heading south for more scrap. As well as 16-tonners, it wasn't unknown for other vehicles to be pressed into service for short-term or one-off flows- I remember Fred McGuinness's yard in Longport (Stoke) sending a pile of scrap out in wooden-bodied opens. Not perhaps the best choice of vehicles, especially when loaded by tipper-lorries from a high bank- I believe there was quite a lot of free firewood available afterwards..