Protocab

[Mike Storey]

I received the latest newsletter (by email) from Protocab this morning.  Their new range looks extremely interesting to me, more provision for smaller locomotives such as tank locomotives, different options for recharging the locomotive batteries (contact-less option, and also, if I understood it correctly, the option of charging through the wheels, for instance, on a loco spur).  The new stuff also seems to let you have one train running round a continuous bit of the layout at constant speed while you do a bit of shunting with another loco, on the same controller.  Unfortunately, their website stopped working for me while I was browsing it.  (They might have been doing an update.)

 

At present, radio control is not a cheap option (although it has to be said that there are other firms doing stuff).  However, Protocab seem to be offering more facilities than they did before, and seem to be making things a bit easier for the radio-control novice.  Although radio control is probably beyond the reach of my pocket at the moment, I suspect that it will become the most significant way to control trains.   If I get a chance in the next few days I might take another peek at their website.

 

I too received that and of the developments mentioned, the two that interest me most are:

 

1. They will begin to provide a fitting service - hooray!

 

2. They are moving towards including DCC functionality. It looks like just lights are imminent, but sound is included in the aspiration. This is now starting to really look interesting.

 

I guess cost will remain an issue until the concept becomes more mainstream and mass production emerges. If they add sound, I will definitely take a punt. It is between that and a ZTC 611.

[NorthHighlander]

May I please be permitted the privilege to respond to the interesting and very welcome recent comments about Acc+Ess Protocab, welcome because we need to know what modellers are looking for and what you think about our products and plans? I hope that this response, while being detailed, is not too lengthy, and I apologise if it is.
Firstly, responding to forest2807's comment: before I do, I'll refer to Mike Storey's note on 5 Mar 16 in which he asks for a wealth of 'how I did it' examples, and I want to thank publicly the Protocab Owners who have written articles for our Club Protocab newsletters including a host of detailed photos, and given their permission to add them to our website. Help! I have the material for at least ten videos to edit based on the installations we have carried out for customers.... but since the last video, I haven't had a chance to edit the photos, and upload them. I WILL, I promise!
Now to answer forest 2807... great minds, eh? You posted at 14.03 on Saturday, and at that time we were putting the final touches to the announcement which we sent out a day later! I hope that we have covered at least some of the points and suggestions that you made.
The important point made is the effort required to convert locos to Protocab operation.

When we first launched demos of Protocab in April 2012, we envisaged that our market would be scratch or kit build modellers, who would design, in the loco, room for the battery, LCU and, crucially, the Plug Charging Unit. Also, they would not have to contend with the large chassis block typical in ready-to-run models to provide adhesive weigh, which led us to believe that we would not appeal to modellers with RTR locos. How wrong we were! Over 90% of our modellers have told us that they have installed Acc+Ess Protocab in RTR locos, and, inevitably, some 'surgery' is necessary, as simple as, e.g. normally having to remove the holding spigots in loco tenders because they get in the way of the space for the battery and charging unit. As we speak, I am finishing off a conversion of a Hornby Fowler 2-4-6T for a customer, and the only way I could get the battery, LCU and charging point into the loco and not be obtrusive into the cab, or overly-harming the fabric of the loco body was to lop off the extension of the chassis block above the trailing bogie. It requires an alternative chassis fixing.
50% of all sales enquiries we receive ask if we can fit Protocab for them, hence our announcement that we will be offering what has hitherto been an ad hoc service, namely providing a fitting service at what we hope will be seen as a reasonable charge. Our problem, and a nice one to have, is that demand so far is causing us to appeal for modellers and others who might be able to assist us with additional resource.
The long term solution is for RTR manufacturers to make provision for Protocab fitments, but I have been disappointed so far by the response to our appeal to a number of manufacturers for Acc+Ess to buy their locos for us to convert and resell.
There are four aspects to conversion which we hope the new announcements will simplify:
1. remove the need for a solid installation of the plug charging unit, which typically limits where it can be installed not only to accommodate the plug, but to be unobtrusive. The plug needs some force to ensure a safe and secure attachment and modellers understandably prefer not to have to hold the loco. The solution ultimately is full wireless induction charging, and we have announced the first product range for delivery later this year. Meanwhile, the interim solution is the 9610 Contact Charging Unit, where modellers are commenting on a range of ways that they intend to use it, mainly retaining wheel pickups, but including e.g. insulated buffers!
2. remove the need for a Locoswitch, where the copper pad is inserted inside the loco as a touch pad and a suitable location found. The location of the Locoswitch and the LCU to which it is attached is limited to the available space in the loco. With the new announcement, the loco can now be switched on from the new 0241 Touch Controller. (the LCU still switches the loco off automatically after a time of inactivity).
3. the shape of the battery: we introduced prismatic flat form in 2015 always with the intention of introducing cylindrical form to fit into boiler/smokeboxes. The issue we have addressed is finding high quality, reliable batteries which are UL62133 certified and fitted with an effective protection circuit at bulk purchase volumes which are reasonable both for us and the suppliers.
4. many modellers have told us that they are not adept at soldering, which is understandable, and the need to solder the two wires from the LCU to the motor is a concern for them. We have therefore announced support for an adaptor which can be plugged into the DCC ready socket, the two wires from the pickup going to the new charging unit, two wires from the LCU going to the motor pins of the DCC socket both of which have suitable connected at the Protocab end (and a future release will cater for the existing loco lighting). This will genuinely mean no soldering at all.
So, forest2807, don't be ashamed to say that the effort required to convert has put you off, it's up to us to provide you with a satisfactory solution and we hope that manufacturers will help as well.
May I now please answer Richard Lee and Mike Storey's notes, both very welcome members of Club Protocab! Yes, Richard, you are right, you can use the wheels and a charging track, but because I, as a modeller, HATE pickups, and I am modelling Brighton in P4 as it was in 1959/60, I aim to use this method to collect power current from the third rail.
You are also right in describing 'free running', letting one (or more) locos run on their own while shunting under control with another. I am sorry that you could not complete your visit to the website, however, we haven't yet updated it with all the new features. If you do encounter a problem with the website in future, we'd love to hear from you so that we can correct it.
We are moving in incremental steps, and we hope that even now we are providing value for money. We always specify the highest tolerance components for reliability and I won't alter this policy. We also have direct contact with our suppliers in the UK, including the PCB assemblers and test houses we use and with whom we have continuous dialogue to help us to use their experience in many other industries to improve our designs and bills of materials.
We are updating the website regularly as the new products take shape, and we thrive on your comments and suggestions.
Thanks for this opportunity to respond.

Best regards

Tony Hagon
Director
Acc+Ess Ltd

[ChrisG]

I received the newsletter and was similarly enthused. I have built a 4mm scale O2 tank loco from a Wills kit, using a particularly snug gearbox and a small motor to leave as much space as possible for the wireless control gear.  Lo and behold the list of products for 2017 includes a battery (cylindrical 45mm by 10mm) which will fit in the boiler and an unbelievably small control unit which has many possibilities for fitting - above the motor, in the side tanks or in the bunker. Plus exciting possibilities for charging. This looks like the year it is going to happen. Like previous correspondents I am convinced this is the way of the future, and an article in the latest issue of Scalefour News contains the view that totally reliable slow running cannot be achieved whilst current is still being picked up from the track. I tend to agree.....

 

 

Chris

Alton, Hants

[DCB]

I received the newsletter and was similarly enthused. I have built a 4mm scale O2 tank loco from a Wills kit, using a particularly snug gearbox and a small motor to leave as much space as possible for the wireless control gear.  Lo and behold the list of products for 2017 includes a battery (cylindrical 45mm by 10mm) which will fit in the boiler and an unbelievably small control unit which has many possibilities for fitting - above the motor, in the side tanks or in the bunker. Plus exciting possibilities for charging. This looks like the year it is going to happen. Like previous correspondents I am convinced this is the way of the future, and an article in the latest issue of Scalefour News contains the view that totally reliable slow running cannot be achieved whilst current is still being picked up from the track. I tend to agree.....

 

 

Chris

Alton, Hants

Why can't totally reliable slow  running be achieved while charging?   Totally reliable slow running is a doddle on battery power, much better and more importantly smoother than DC or DCC.     It is true that  Totally reliable sow running cannot be achieved while picking up current from the track when using DC or  DCC but on DC if sling a big capacitor across the pickups and it improves things immensely.  That ability to build your own complicated trackwork without needing to muck about with insulators is a great asset in R/C.   I use a different system of Battery Power not Protocab myself and have done for 20 odd years in the garden in 00 and some of my track has never been cleaned since it was laid. Think of that next time you spend 1/2 hour cleaning your micro layout only for the partner to announce "Dinner is Ready" before you get a chance to run any trains.   

[davetheroad]

Why can't totally reliable slow  running be achieved while charging?   Totally reliable slow running is a doddle on battery power, much better and more importantly smoother than DC or DCC.     It is true that  Totally reliable sow running cannot be achieved while picking up current from the track when using DC or  DCC but on DC if sling a big capacitor across the pickups and it improves things immensely.  That ability to build your own complicated trackwork without needing to muck about with insulators is a great asset in R/C.   I use a different system of Battery Power not Protocab myself and have done for 20 odd years in the garden in 00 and some of my track has never been cleaned since it was laid. Think of that next time you spend 1/2 hour cleaning your micro layout only for the partner to announce "Dinner is Ready" before you get a chance to run any trains.   

 

So true, the sheer bliss of no wires and crawling about under the boards. The locos seem to work better as well. I recently converted a Lima class 20 and on test it was starting 20 Hornby RR MK 1's with ease. That's up to a 800 ton train!. The Railroad Deltic is OK with 30 coaches (although the tension locks aren't) and on a recent test the Hornby class 66 will pull the equivalent of 21 Bachmann HTA bogie coal hoppers and that at 190g per wagon.

[Junctionmad]

I see no electrical reason why slow running cant be achieved in DC and especially in DCC ( DCC will always be better at slow running), This is especially true of diesels that perform at sub scale walking speeds  on DCC ( slower then the prototype moved in reality ) 

 

not against batteries , but its just another " option " 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Junctionmad

[davetheroad]

I tried the Protocab site today. It is not available, anyone know why?

[NorthHighlander]

Hello Dave...

Our apologies.... the website was down earlier, and it's back up and running again.

We had a DNS problem,  now resolved.

..back to the coalface to maintain momentum on our new developments.

 

Best regards

 

Tony Hagon

Director

Acc+Ess Ltd

protocab.com

[Joseph_Pestell]

Oh no you haven't! Perhaps it is getting too many hits after the BRM video?

 

Anyway, I got into the site but then it fell over when I tried to use one of the links to express my interest.

 

I have been very tempted by DCC but concerned by some of the problems that many people still seem to be having with it. This looks really interesting as an alternative.

[Junctionmad]

Oh no you haven't! Perhaps it is getting too many hits after the BRM video?

 

Anyway, I got into the site but then it fell over when I tried to use one of the links to express my interest.

 

I have been very tempted by DCC but concerned by some of the problems that many people still seem to be having with it. This looks really interesting as an alternative.

What problems are " people having with DCC " ?

[Budgie]

What problems are " people having with DCC " ?

Well, my problems with DCC all involve forgetting how to do things, like programming double-headers and multiple lash-ups. So I've got copies of the throttle-users' manual available at strategic points.

[Theakerr]

May have been covered elsewhere but I just watched a Steven Hawkins program which showed a non contact, non inductive direct charge arrangement.  This system (DI Industries) could charge a cell phone just by placing it alongside ones computer and could recharge a specially equipped AA battery.  Special emitters and receivers are required but already they are pretty small and will only get smaller.  It also appeared that the chargers could be ganged up, so one could park the battery equipped loco in front of the station building, the goods shed, the engine shed etc and get it charged.

[MerseyMan]

Very recently I successfully fitted my 0 Gauge Lionheart 45xx Prairie with Protocab. Lionheart users IC sockets to connect the internal electronics to the motor so it was very easy to solder new IC socket to the Protocab wires which makes installation very easy indeed. The protocab equipment (with the largest battery they do) is also small enough it fit in the body with only minor modification.  I was advised the Lionheart loco might be too current hungry for protocabs current 0502 unit, which after all is designed for 4mm. But I need not have worried. It works absolutely brilliant and I couldn't be more pleased with it. The onboard battery provides more than enough "prototypical speed" for a small 45xx and it can handle the heaviest loads. I wanted to see how much the loco could handle so I set up a "loaded test" on the bench slowly increasing the gradient with a heavy load of stone filled wagons. The 45xx ran perfectly until traction became a problem and the driving wheels started spinning. The only little problem I uncounted was when you accelerate rapidly. For example, if you go from no power to full power instantly, it caused the 0502 unit to "trip" which then needs to be reset. But other than that, it absolutely brilliant. I really can't recommend these guys enough. To have this kind of onboard power source for garden railways (or even for a small/medium diorama)  in 0 gauge really is something else. It eliminates the hassle of trying to clean the track and mess around with silly pickups. I for sure will be fitting my other locos with this. And if they can design a unit for larger locos with higher voltages.... well, that will really be something else.    

[CME and Bottlewasher]

On 08/02/2022 at 11:15, MerseyMan said:

Very recently I successfully fitted my 0 Gauge Lionheart 45xx Prairie with Protocab. Lionheart users IC sockets to connect the internal electronics to the motor so it was very easy to solder new IC socket to the Protocab wires which makes installation very easy indeed. The protocab equipment (with the largest battery they do) is also small enough it fit in the body with only minor modification.  I was advised the Lionheart loco might be too current hungry for protocabs current 0502 unit, which after all is designed for 4mm. But I need not have worried. It works absolutely brilliant and I couldn't be more pleased with it. The onboard battery provides more than enough "prototypical speed" for a small 45xx and it can handle the heaviest loads. I wanted to see how much the loco could handle so I set up a "loaded test" on the bench slowly increasing the gradient with a heavy load of stone filled wagons. The 45xx ran perfectly until traction became a problem and the driving wheels started spinning. The only little problem I uncounted was when you accelerate rapidly. For example, if you go from no power to full power instantly, it caused the 0502 unit to "trip" which then needs to be reset. But other than that, it absolutely brilliant. I really can't recommend these guys enough. To have this kind of onboard power source for garden railways (or even for a small/medium diorama)  in 0 gauge really is something else. It eliminates the hassle of trying to clean the track and mess around with silly pickups. I for sure will be fitting my other locos with this. And if they can design a unit for larger locos with higher voltages.... well, that will really be something else.    

That sounds great, but I can never get the company to reply to emailed questions. So I'll probably go with Deltang type equipment.

[MerseyMan]

21 hours ago, CME and Bottlewasher said:

That sounds great, but I can never get the company to reply to emailed questions. So I'll probably go with Deltang type equipment.

From my own experience I've never had a problem with emails from them. They were always quick to reply. "Tony" in particular was very helpful. Maybe give them a phone call? As I say this is speaking purely off my own personal experience , I have no affiliation with them at all, Just a very happy customer. I have absolutely no regrets going with Proto cab. My only regret is not going with them sooner. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by MerseyMan

[CME and Bottlewasher]

On 10/02/2022 at 14:14, MerseyMan said:

From my own experience I've never had a problem with emails from them. They were always quick to reply. "Tony" in particular was very helpful. Maybe give them a phone call? As I say this is speaking purely off my own personal experience , I have no affiliation with them at all, Just a very happy customer. I have absolutely no regrets going with Proto cab. My only regret is not going with them sooner. 

I've tried all forms of communication with them and had no luck at all, not sure as to why. Maybe I'll try again in the near future. Thanks for the info btw.

[NorthHighlander]

Hi Forum... and CME and Bottlewasher in particular..

I'm sorry to hear that you have had difficulty in contacting us. Which email address have you been using? Try sales@protocab.com, please. I am always very pleased to hear from you on the telephone, details on our website.

If you still have problems with contacting us, please come back ASAP. Our worry is that emails might be being diverted elsewhere and we would be none the wiser, despite all sorts of security routines.

Best regards and hope to hear from you

 

Tony Hagon

Director

Acc+Ess Limited

[CME and Bottlewasher]

On 16/02/2022 at 13:33, NorthHighlander said:

Hi Forum... and CME and Bottlewasher in particular..

I'm sorry to hear that you have had difficulty in contacting us. Which email address have you been using? Try sales@protocab.com, please. I am always very pleased to hear from you on the telephone, details on our website.

If you still have problems with contacting us, please come back ASAP. Our worry is that emails might be being diverted elsewhere and we would be none the wiser, despite all sorts of security routines.

Best regards and hope to hear from you

 

Tony Hagon

Director

Acc+Ess Limited

Hi Tony,

 

Thank you for reaching out

 

Ill try the above email that you've mentioned - I had a similar one but with your name embedded (iirc), that may be part of the issue.

 

If not, I'll try the telephone via your website.

 

Kindest regards with thanks in haste,

 

Martin.

 

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi all,

 

Tony from Protocab has been in touch (and the email address worked perfectly - with a super fast response) and has been most helpful, across the board, with  information and advice.

 

There's also several videos on You Tube detailing how to fit the system to several loco types - all very helpful.

 

I have to say that the plug and play aspect is very appealing as are the safety features when using LiPo batteries etc and catering for those of us using modern O gauge RTR (and in the garden too). Takes some of the DIY elements away and makes life easier.

 

I remember catching up with the late Chris Klein at the Reading GOG do, I was with my father, and Chris had his personal Minerva Pannier kitted out with Protocab. The three of us chuckled as onlookers couldn't fathom that moving picture Eg an O gauge loco running on a table without track. Chris was overjoyed with the installation and set up.

 

Thanks for your help and guidance.

 

For me, making life easier, is paramount these days and plug and play, akin to the RC that I've used in cars, aircraft, boats and my father's SM32 locos would certainly help in that regard.

 

Ttfn all.

 

Best regards,

 

Martin.