hayfield Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Mark 2 Vee soldering jig As I said before I bought some aluminium strip 10 mm x 2 mm to build a more robust jig. A 1-6 in this case. I simply cut 2 strips 60 mm long and drilled 2 holes in each. I them sawed and filed to shape a 1-6 wedge, which started off 60 mm long. The first piece was screwed to a board with 2 screws, then using the wedge the other straight piece was screwed in place. Take the tip off the wedge and round off the other two corners I start off with the straight road rail carefully filing to the correct angle, all I can say is take your time, its so easy to take a bit more off but too much filing equals starting again With the second rail you can take a bit too much off as the solder will fill the gap, but try to get it right its more pleasing, I then soldered the two together but hit 2 problems. Number one is the rail is 1.9 mm tall and the strip is 2 mm, so I will pack the bottom up with some very thin veneer I have, the second issue is that the Aluminium acts as a heat sink The finished article, not quite as beautiful as those who go the whole hog, but a very functional Vee that did not take too long to build and is nicely angled. A couple of tweaks and all will be well 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Hi John That's the jig you were telling me about in another thread. I've made one using ply sleepers, but they give too much under any pressure. I am going to try your method. I know I've asked many questions of you, but can I ask a couple more to make sure I have this all right?-Am I correct in saying that in most (or all?) cases of bullhead, that the stock rail is NOT filed away at all where the switch blades sit? - Is it easier to make sharper 1:4 vees or finer 1:8+ vees, or does it really make no difference? -Last one. Following your advice previously, I have now filed pretty accurate angles. However, when I fit them together there is a lip at the end of the splice rail onto the taper of the main rail. According to diagrams from Mr Templot himself, I need to file away the web at that point -OR- do this file, bend, file ritual. IIRC you don't do that file, bend, file yourself, so how do you overcome that? The wheel is riding on the thick head of the rail and then suddenly its on a the other (main) rail which has no web as I've just filed it off.Does any of that make any sense? Any advice would be appreciated. If I've missed this in the past 10 pages, my apologies. Perhaps I've just being dense? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Derek Good morning, RMweb is all about asking questions and learning from others The profile of the end of a switch rail (that touches the stock rail) is L shaped. Filed flat where it sits against the stock rail, and the foot on the inside left intact. I mark the length of taper and file by eye to it According the the information given to me by Martin, the side you file flat should go to the web and just take a little off the web. You need a blunt end, I do this with a big 10" file. Turn it over, clamp it and I find it easier to use a 6" file. File the head back to the web along the taper. You should now have a blunt L shaper end. The second part is to file a 45 degree chamfer to the rail so that its back to the vertical by the end of the taper. This photo shows the L section and blunt end, but the top of the rail needs the chamfer This is far harder to describe than do. What I would say is buy a couple of decent files. I bought a couple of 6" files this week (from a local independent tool shop) one was £6 the other £4, What I call a medium Cut (2) and fine cut (3). You don't realise (well I did not) how blunt your tools get. You will get much better results with sharp tools Don't use your best files on glass fibre sleepers, I use my worse files on them I don't think its any easier or harder in 4 mm scale between different angles When splicing angles I leave a slight gap between the end of the first rail and the start of the second, I then put a blob of solder on the gap and file flush. I do have a friend who in 7 mm who files a rebate into the side of the first rail, but in 7 mm scale everything is more noticeable Please ask away especially if I have missed something Edited January 24, 2015 by hayfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2015 Am I correct in saying that in most (or all?) cases of bullhead, that the stock rail is NOT filed away at all where the switch blades sit? Hi Derek, That's correct, for bullhead rail there is never any need to file the stock rail. You do of course need a set (bend) on one side, or for GWR track you can create a joggle on both sides -- although a joggle is tricky to get right (allowing for the 1:20 inclination on the rail if using plastic chairs) and generally a plain set on one side is far easier. More about all thus here: http://www.templot.com/martweb/gs_realtrack.htm#joggle Here's a prototype pic. The position of the set is marked on Templot templates. For flat-bottom rail it is helpful to file away the foot of the stock rail (not the head), because that's prototypical in many cases (and fabricating an over-riding switch blade would be very tricky). regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2015 The profile of the end of a switch rail (that touches the stock rail) is L shaped. Filed flat where it sits against the stock rail, and the foot on the inside left intact. I mark the length of taper and file by eye to it. According the the information given to me by Martin, the side you file flat should go to the web and just take a little off the web. You need a blunt end, I do this with a big 10" file. Turn it over, clamp it and I find it easier to use a 6" file. File the head back to the web along the taper. You should now have a blunt L shaper end. The second part is to file a 45 degree chamfer to the rail so that its back to the vertical by the end of the taper. This is far harder to describe than do. What I would say is buy a couple of decent files. I bought a couple of 6" files this week (from a local independent tool shop) one was £6 the other £4, What I call a medium Cut (2) and fine cut (3). You don't realise (well I did not) how blunt your tools get. You will get much better results with sharp tools. Hi Derek, Here's a couple of diagrams to show what John is describing for filing the switch blades. This is the end view of the finished blade tip. Don't get them too thin at the tip, otherwise only the tip part will flex when they operate, and you won't get sufficient flange clearance all along behind the open blade. regards, Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePurplePrimer Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hi Derek, Here's a couple of diagrams to show what John is describing for filing the switch blades. This is the end view of the finished blade tip. Don't get them too thin at the tip, otherwise only the tip part will flex when they operate, and you won't get sufficient flange clearance all along behind the open blade. regards, Martin. Hi Martin Do you have a similar picture that shows how we should be doing the same thing to flat bottom rail ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Martin Thank you again John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2015 Do you have a similar picture that shows how we should be doing the same thing to flat bottom rail ? Hi Rob, I have now. regards, Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 That's the jig you were telling me about in another thread. I've made one using ply sleepers, but they give too much under any pressure Nb. This jig is only for checking the angle and then soldering, the filing has to be done outside the jig. As such there should not be any need to apply pressure, just heat. I have always used jigs made of ply timbers for this. They have the advantage that they do not act as a heatsink. See http://www.norgrove.me.uk/points.html See here http://www.scalefour.org/resources/switches.html for the various options for switch tip design, the ones we mostly use as modellers are the "straight cut switches" as shown by Martin above. Regards Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Thank you chaps. The help is appreciated. I know I must appear to be asking people to repeat that which has already been discussed many times before. I think my problem is that I have read several thousand articles now (and no, this is not an exaggeration) and it has become a bit of information overload! It is especially challenging to interpret when you have two highly respected people with slightly different methods. I have read so many useful articles here, Templot and other locations and I am kicking myself that I didn't make better notes as I went along as to which articles to refer to. There's a staggering amount of guidance available and sometimes there are slightly different opinions of how to achieve it. Martin, I know some people do the file-fold-file bit and others don't. I had another go at it yesterday following on from John's comments about filing, and now I can see why you promote it. It still isn't working for me (yet!) but I am getting better at it. Keith, Yes I realise its only for measuring. What meant is that my ply jig isn't rigid enough and even pushing the two rail parts in is causing the soft ply to deform. Thanks again chaps. I'm still going to keep going with my vee's, but I am also going to build up my C&L kit (though built to a Templot pattern, which seems a little different to the C&L template- so that I can keep it uniform design). Derek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 A quick update on the bench Added another angle to my Vee jig and you might see I have inserted a very thin piece of ply in the 1-5 gap so the rail head is above the aluminium strip, this reduces the heat sink of the metal quite a bit Attached to my sleeper cutting jig I have added 2 strips of aluminium to act as guides for filing the heads of the switch blades. The rail is clamped to the board and the ali stops sideways movement. Its a lot easier to file the head with 2 hands free without touching the foot. Its just as easy to file the angle of the head into a fine point. Files seem to cut much better using both hands and pushing forward to cut rather than back and forth. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 I have be busy adding new angles to my replacement jigs Now got most angles covered though one of the 1-10 bars doubles up for a 1-8 The aluminium strip does act as a heat sink, as its actually fractionally taller than the rail, I need to find something a bit thinner than the thin ply (0.8 mm) I am using just to lift the rail very slightly. When the rail is lifted slightly is reduces the heat sink effect 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted February 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2015 The aluminium strip does act as a heat sink, as its actually fractionally taller than the rail, I need to find something a bit thinner than the thin ply (0.8 mm) I am using just to lift the rail very slightly. When the rail is lifted slightly is reduces the heat sink effect Hi John, Before soldering the rails, hold your soldering iron on the aluminium strips for a few seconds to warm them up. This will greatly reduce the heat-sink effect. If you are using a thermostatic temperature-controlled iron, it will switch to full power and soon come back up to working temperature. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Martin Thanks for the advice, I am thinking about getting another iron, but I do like my little Antex 25 watt one. The aluminium strips are great as they do keep the sides straight and of course will not solder to the rails Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 With the jigs finished and some common crossings built then its back to making turnouts again, a junction this time Timbers cut, now to fit the common crossings which in this case have curviform Vees. The common crossings are in rough mode and will be finished off as each one is fitted One bit I forgot to do was to change the sleeper spacings to model mode, I had to manually re-space the sleepers so the tips of the crossing rails were supported. I also marked where the tips of the crossing rails ended at the K crossings as the sleepers hide it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 The junction is starting to take shape, common crossings first, then the stock rails for the turnouts. I have made 2 of the switch rails and 4 of the check rails. Quite large turnouts as they are C10's The turnout common crossings have curviform Vees (curved). I set the straight rail first, when dry curved the other. The diamond will be interesting as one route is straight the other being curved to copy the plain track. The left hand common crossing is roughly 1-8 and the right is about 1-5.5. I think there will be a bit of adaptation of the obtuse (K) crossing chairs as they are either 1-7 or 1-8, however these are mostly cosmetic 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 The junction is coming along Switch rails now fitted, the diamond started with the fitting of the stock and crossing rails (which are soldered but not stuck). I need to make and fit the check rails (6) and test the crossing. Once that is completed the special chair detailing can be finished 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Check rails fitted and testing started The obtuse (K) crossings part built, as you can see the method of construction is similar to the common crossings. The copperclad strip will stay unfinished until I am happy that all is working properly. Once I am happy with the complex they will be finished off when the crossing is lifted from the building board. Initial testing looks messy with trucks locos wires and short lengths of rail all used to test the track. This is just the initial test so nothing too permanent at this stage. Result is that the diamond crossing is fine and there is a check rail a bit too tight for my loco. Next step is fitting both tiebars, the rest of the chairs then a fuller test. Finally once the crossing is off the board I can finish off the central crossing of the diamond and fit wires from the stock rails to the switch rails 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Now starting to finish the crossing, which was removed from the building board for access to the rear Wire soldered between the stock and switch rails I cut the tracing paper by the left hand side of the K crossing copperclad strips, which were cut flush with the rails The copperclad strips were then super glued to the sleeper The right hand side was done the same and super glued to the sleeper Followed by the central pieces The chairs were now fitted as per the charts showing which chairs go where Completed unit in 2 pieces waiting for final test. Edited February 11, 2015 by hayfield 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Nothing of late that is too much different from what I have posted except for this single slip To date the sequence has been 1 Cut the sleepers 2 Gap the sleepers 3 Make and fit the Vees 4 Fit the non-slip side stock rail 5 Make and tack fit the slip side stock rail 6 Make and fit the wing/crossing rails 7 Make and tack fit 2 of the crossing rails Next up is making and fitting the slip/diamond crossing rail 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Once the turnout was tested and adjusted slight removal of a couple of rails to enable the full soldering of all joints to be finished One of the slip rails removed All replaced soldered up and waiting for tiebars before final testing 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Next up a couple of Y turnouts Usual method of plan stuck to a building board, tracing paper laid over plan held down with masking tape. Very thin strips of double sided tape on the sleepers, with Exactoscale plastic sleepers stuck in place. Common crossing then chaired and stuck down Stock rails formed, don't forget on a Y turnout there is a set point (bend) on both stock rails. Etched fishplates soldered under a notch on the stock rails to represent the join in the rail and chairs fitted 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 A week since my last update Well 2 of these 00 gauge Y's have been completed, the block chairs can be seen in this photo (after the slide chairs and before the full chairs on the clousure rails And a start made on an EM gauge facing crossover, timbers cut to size and laid in position. Rulers help to position timbers in line You can see I have cut the isolation gaps before starting to lay the rail, This was done with a junior hacksaw and is far less agressive than a slitting disk. Also allows you to be able to test the rails electrically whilst building The Vee's were made and positioned first, followed by the straight stock rails, then the curved ones were soldered in position. As you can see I then solder the wing/closure rails in position. Next the switch/closure rails will be made and fitted followed by the check rails 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Very neat as usual, John. I always stop in here when a new post is made but mostly don’t comment - that does not mean that I’m not interested! Keep up the good work, I believe you have inspired many modelers to try making their own model track; and why not, indeed, it’s as much a model as anything else. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Pete Thanks, Its a great pity that far to few take the plunge, If a loco had the same type of issue as for instance the wrong size of sleepers or wrong sleeper spacing, just think of the outcry. If only twice as many made they own track, firstly the parts would become a lot easier to obtain but very much cheaper. Perhaps there would be finely cast common crossings, better tiebars. Still not to worry one day hopefully things may improve for both the RTR and home builder markets Another tip for anyone soldering, have an Aloe Vera plant near. Yesterday I burnt my finger with the iron, a quick dab with the sap from a leaf, just a bit of a white mark on the finger, no burn, blister or pain 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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