Hayfields turnout workbench

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, hayfield said:

One of the areas of track building many find challenging is building the common crossing, this is another variant which some may find a bit easier 

 

 

This is a P4 B6 turnout, I was watching a Youtuber make a start at building turnouts, what interested me is that he made the common crossing in situ rather than prefabricating it prior to the build

 

 

The one difference in the build sequence I made was to substitute temporally two plastic timbers for wooden ones, whilst I solder up the common crossing, simply plastic does not like heat, In future I may try it with plastic timbers as did the Youtuber.

 

 

A quick close up of the crossing area, I will post updates and how I fit the common crossings

John, I also build the common crossing in situ (copperclad timbers). I just find it easier that way.

[hayfield]

 

The wing rail chairs were left to set overnight

 

 

I then used my DD Wheelwrights block gauge and crossing alignment aid (also available in EM gauge) which makes soldering up the wing rail easy, though a standard wing rail gauge would do fine, but remember to support the crossing as the vee is not held/stuck in place

 

 

All soldered together, he copperclad strips will be trimmed to size once the turnout has been built

 

 

The second wing rail is in place with the chairs stuck down and setting, I will solder the second wing rail tomorrow.

The first switch rail is being fitted

[hayfield]

I thought I would update my workbench with what's been happening during the forums absence. Before I go on a very big thankyou to Warners, Andy and all the others who have been busy sorting out the forum issues

 

 

I was initially asked to build a right hand turnout of a formation to P4 gauge, once tested I was then asked to complete the complex, the turnout was incorporated into the formation template and additional timbers were then added

 

 

The next main job was to build the 4 common crossings that were required

 

 

This is the latest photo I have updated, though now all but one of the switch rails have been built, but as there is no chair plan or even special chairs for 3 ways its a case of skiing off-piste a bit. 90% of the chair positions are straight forward, the remaining 10% have to be guessed. Without clear photographic evidence and the lack of plans and specialist chairs its a case of best guess/adaption of what's available

 

Still great to be back on line again

 

[hayfield]

For a change a bit of copperclad work

 

 

My usual method of cutting the timbers, them mark the electrical isolation cuts. The cuts are made with a junior hacksaw, then each timber is tested for electrical isolation

 

Many think this is a bit time wasting as they just slice everything up with a slitting disc once the rails have been fitted. This I think is a neater method and the time it takes can save the issue of finding a short circuit, plus the turnout can be checked as being built with a loco under power

 

Still each to their own

[hayfield]

Jigs whilst not essential do make like much easier, with the work being more accurate and certainly a lot quicker to make

 

Rail is clamped in place

 

 

Then with a few quick strokes formed into an accurate angle

 

 

The same gauge can be used to hold the rails in place for soldering

 

 

As I said not essential but certainly a time saver. Also these can be used to form wing rails, I will show this later.

 

These jigs are sold by both the EM gauge Society and the ScaleFour Society. This one has settings for 1-5, 1-6, 1-7 & 1-8 angles ( The ScaleFour Society also sells one with angles 1-9 to 1-12)

 

If you have a few turnouts to build these are worth buying as C&L now charge £14.40 + postage per pre-assembled Vees. These units cost between £34 & £40 which may seem expensive, but will not only save time and money, but will give constant accurate assemblies. As these jigs can only be bought by society members or at the society shows, they are difficult to obtain, and are snapped up for great prices when they are put up for sale on our favourite auction site. 

 

 

Back to the build, the first job is to set the Vees in place

[hayfield]

 

Next up is the simple job of fitting the stock rails

 

 

The wing rails are marked out

 

 

Then bend them approximately to the correct angle, slide them into the filing jig, and tap on the bend with a toffee/pin hammer. Angle set

 

 

Using gauges fit each wing rail

 

 

Job done

 

All these processes can de done without jigs, but as you can see its far easier with them. Don't just look at the cost of buying them, look at the savings then take into consideration their re-sale value (that's if you can bare to part with them).

[hayfield]

 

This is a Canadian jig I bought, its a filing jig for 1-6 crossings and switches, designed for flatbotton rail between code 70 and 100 (its double sided) but code 75 bullhead works just as well

 

 

This one of the two working sides as you can see for switches the rail is threaded from the left, switches are inserted from the right. The foot of the rail goes between the two halves, the other side mirrors this side. So when using flatbottom rail the jig is sided. Bullhead rail can just be turned which ever way you require.

 

Also it only files one side of the rail, the head on the other side needs to be prepared using traditional methods

 

 

After fitting the switch rail check rails can be fitted with the use of check rail gauges

 

I have not tested the switch under power yet but a rolling chassis glides through

 

Fast Tracks website

https://www.handlaidtrack.com/filing-jigs-pointforms-slip-switches 

Edited July 24, 2022 by hayfield

[hayfield]

 

The 2 sides together showing the Fast Track Jigs, the right hand bottom photo shows the jig with a rail in the vee slot

 

 

A comparison with a rail in the switch rail slot

 

Here is a very ingenious jig designed and 3D printed by Martin Wynn

 

 

This is for a 1-5 vee and is extremely robust as the file removes metal from the rail but the jig seems un affected

 

I think only the 1-5 jig has been designed, Martin said other angles could easily be designed and printed from the Templot 3D projects, no doubt switch rails could be added to the items

 

Just need an enterprising person with a 3D printer to take up the idea 

Edited July 24, 2022 by hayfield

[The Evil Bus Driver]

5 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

This is a Canadian jig I bought, its a filing jig for 1-6 crossings and switches, designed for flatbotton rail between code 70 and 100 (its double sided) but code 75 bullhead works just as well

 

 

This one of the two working sides as you can see for switches the rail is threaded from the left, switches are inserted from the right. The foot of the rail goes between the two halves, the other side mirrors this side. So when using flatbottom rail the jig is sided. Bullhead rail can just be turned which ever way you require.

 

Also it only files one side of the rail, the head on the other side needs to be prepared using traditional methods

 

 

After fitting the switch rail check rails can be fitted with the use of check rail gauges

 

I have not tested the switch under power yet but a rolling chassis glides through

 

Fast Tracks website

https://www.handlaidtrack.com/filing-jigs-pointforms-slip-switches 

Looks like a useful bit if kit. I've downloaded files for a 3D printable one. As I don't have $59.99 (About £45 isn't it?) plus shipping. But I'd certainly be interested in one of those.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, The Evil Bus Driver said:

Looks like a useful bit if kit. I've downloaded files for a 3D printable one. As I don't have $59.99 (About £45 isn't it?) plus shipping. But I'd certainly be interested in one of those.

 

Depending on how many turnouts you are making and potential resale value if you don't want to keep them, it still can be a wise financial investment.

 

I don't know how good the resale value of the Fast Track gauges is, being from the other side of the pond and just one size ( the society ones have 4 angles)  do resell well

 

Martin's Templot version is very good and if you have a printer will be quite cheap. I don't know if any other angles are available. 

[The Evil Bus Driver]

18 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Depending on how many turnouts you are making and potential resale value if you don't want to keep them, it still can be a wise financial investment.

 

I don't know how good the resale value of the Fast Track gauges is, being from the other side of the pond and just one size ( the society ones have 4 angles)  do resell well

 

Martin's Templot version is very good and if you have a printer will be quite cheap. I don't know if any other angles are available. 

Heh I need 6 for the layout I'm building plus potential extensions.  And fiddle yards, although I might use streamline points off stage. 

 

We do have a 3D printer at the club so once I figure that out job's a good one. I do remember a coffee house back in Brighton that had one and they'd print anything you wanted. Might be worth looking into as a backup, since I'm heading down there soon. 

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, The Evil Bus Driver said:

Heh I need 6 for the layout I'm building plus potential extensions.  And fiddle yards, although I might use streamline points off stage. 

 

We do have a 3D printer at the club so once I figure that out job's a good one. I do remember a coffee house back in Brighton that had one and they'd print anything you wanted. Might be worth looking into as a backup, since I'm heading down there soon. 

 

 

Look on Templot Club for them

[martin_wynne]

15 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Look on Templot Club for them

 

Here: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/rail-filing-jigs-3d-printed.226/

 

So far I have done only 1:5 for code75 bullhead rail, as a proof of concept. You can download the STL files for 3D printing. If you have your own FDM (filament) printer, the cost of materials is about 80p.

 

 

The aim is to be able to set any angle you like in Templot, and any rail, and then get the STL file for it.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited July 24, 2022 by martin_wynne

[The Evil Bus Driver]

1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Here: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/rail-filing-jigs-3d-printed.226/

 

So far I have done only 1:5 for code75 bullhead rail, as a proof of concept. You can download the STL files for 3D printing. If you have your own FDM (filament) printer, the cost of materials is about 80p.

 

 

The aim is to be able to set any angle you like in Templot, and any rail, and then get the STL file for it.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

OK cheers I'll have a look and see if I can get one printed up. I'll let you know how I get on. 

[hayfield]

 

With the exception of 2 timbers which will be used as tiebars, the job is done and works well. I now have fitted the timber tiebars so its off to the next complex once I get a new supply of 1.2mm thick copperclad strip from Marcway

[Ian_H]

Hi John, following your construction of the crossover, it would seem to be within my capabilities. I have tried before and made a complete hash of it but following your explanation I think I should perhaps give it another go. However there is another alternative being the kits from Wayne Kinney/British Finescale. Of course Wayne's kits look much better close up but we have all seen Eastwood Town and what Gordon achieved with his copperclad construction. Considering this, a B7 crossover constructed from Wayne's kits would cost £46.00, how does this compare with the cost of the copperclad construction, filing jigs and other tools aside.

 

regards

Ian

[hayfield]

4 minutes ago, Ian_H said:

Hi John, following your construction of the crossover, it would seem to be within my capabilities. I have tried before and made a complete hash of it but following your explanation I think I should perhaps give it another go. However there is another alternative being the kits from Wayne Kinney/British Finescale. Of course Wayne's kits look much better close up but we have all seen Eastwood Town and what Gordon achieved with his copperclad construction. Considering this, a B7 crossover constructed from Wayne's kits would cost £46.00, how does this compare with the cost of the copperclad construction, filing jigs and other tools aside.

 

regards

Ian

 

Ian

 

Copperclad now is quite expensive and using C&L as a guide a pack of copperclad strip which costs about £19 makes 3 turnouts, you will also need just under 2m of rail and a pack of 10 m costs about £15 though the price is due to increase. As it happens chaired track may be cheaper but takes a lot longer to build. Please note I am building the complex in a size not supported by Wayne yet

 

In short between £7 & £9 per turnout in copperclad, though it could be less if materials are to hand.

 

Wayne's kits do have many advantages, in that part of the fabrication has been done, there is chair detail, in built accuracy and of course the speed of construction.

 

The down side is splicing two turnouts into a crossover !! and forming both into a curved complex. I am certain it can be done but will the builders skills be up to the same standard which the standard kit (simply) builds into. There is a bit of the unknown having not done it myself, so I do not know the pitfalls. An accomplished track builder could do it, I would assume an accomplished modeller could also do it. But like all kit bashing projects there will be difficulties. However given the quality of the kits I am certain its possible, but care and time must be taken to maintain the kits quality

[Ian_H]

8 minutes ago, hayfield said:

The down side is splicing two turnouts into a crossover !! and forming both into a curved complex. I am certain it can be done but will the builders skills be up to the same standard which the standard kit (simply) builds into.

I hadn't thought about the complexities of constructing a curved crossover with Wayne's kits, again referring back to Eastwood Town, I don't think Gordon had a straight turnout on the layout ... everything curved and by golly, it looked good!

 

You also mentioned the cost of copperclad strips which has gone up in recent years, Marcway have their "CCS4-GF OO/EM 4mm Wide PCB Glass Fibre Strip 18X12" at £16.50  whereas C&L strips are "12' 4MM X 1.6 MM X 220MM PACK 20" for, as you say, £19.00. It would seem that Marcway is better value on the amount of copperclad that they provide, perhaps enough to construct 4 turnouts? Clearly, from your pricing, a copper clad crossover would cost £14~£18, a significant saving but closeup won't look as good as Wayne's kits. An alternative that is being discussed is Martin Wynne's 3D Plug Track which looks like it could will be able to produce complexed formations but the cost of the printer maybe prohibitive at this stage.

 

Ian

[hayfield]

22 minutes ago, Ian_H said:

I hadn't thought about the complexities of constructing a curved crossover with Wayne's kits, again referring back to Eastwood Town, I don't think Gordon had a straight turnout on the layout ... everything curved and by golly, it looked good!

 

You also mentioned the cost of copperclad strips which has gone up in recent years, Marcway have their "CCS4-GF OO/EM 4mm Wide PCB Glass Fibre Strip 18X12" at £16.50  whereas C&L strips are "12' 4MM X 1.6 MM X 220MM PACK 20" for, as you say, £19.00. It would seem that Marcway is better value on the amount of copperclad that they provide, perhaps enough to construct 4 turnouts? Clearly, from your pricing, a copper clad crossover would cost £14~£18, a significant saving but closeup won't look as good as Wayne's kits. An alternative that is being discussed is Martin Wynne's 3D Plug Track which looks like it could will be able to produce complexed formations but the cost of the printer maybe prohibitive at this stage.

 

Ian

 

Ian

 

You have not considered plastic chair construction which is well and truly up and running (If you are worried about common crossings use copperclad timbers in that area)

 

Exactoscale turnout timbers £5 enough for 3 turnouts

Chairs 500 = £20

Slide chairs 100 = £8.50

 

I think you will need about 120 chairs per turnout. Chairs and timbers £7 ish plus rail

 

Martins/Templot system is still very much in development, but looks to be very promising, I would love to get my hands on some samples

Edited July 25, 2022 by hayfield

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

With the exception of 2 timbers which will be used as tiebars, the job is done and works well. I now have fitted the timber tiebars so its off to the next complex once I get a new supply of 1.2mm thick copperclad strip from Marcway

Very nice, John, but you seem to have skipped the bit I was looking forward to learning from, namely how you profile the switches/blades, whether with or without a jig. I have an EMGS/S4S jig and I must admit that I don't get on well with it, so I only use it to protect the head when I start filing the foot. After that I put it to one side and carry on without.

[hayfield]

14 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Very nice, John, but you seem to have skipped the bit I was looking forward to learning from, namely how you profile the switches/blades, whether with or without a jig. I have an EMGS/S4S jig and I must admit that I don't get on well with it, so I only use it to protect the head when I start filing the foot. After that I put it to one side and carry on without.

 

Sorry my bad explanation, I also struggle with the Societies switch blade jigs, to that end I use this one made by a Canadian company Fast Tracks

 

 

Its a dual purpose jig, from one end you slide the rail in for Vees, the other end for switches

 

 

Each side has two groves, the shorter one on the left has a much greater angle and the rail is threaded from the right, the longer groove on the right has a longer and shallower angle and the rail is threaded from the left

 

There are two sides which mirror each other, the foot of flatbottom rail sits between the two halves, so it has to be handed. Bullhead just slides in either side and has to be slid in the right way round. Its so much easier to use than the society jig, BUT only files one side

 

Its equally important to have sharp files, my best files I only use on hard metals. Not whitemetal castings and certainly not glassfibre copperclad strip, I use older files for these

 

 

 

On this view the rail is slid in from the left and the rail sticks out of the longer slot, it only files one side which sits against the stock rail. Once filed I use a flat needle file to shape the head of the rail on the other side, in the past I have used the society switch jigs to file the head back

 

These jigs are designed for flatbottom rail between code 70 and 100, as it happens it also works on code 75 bullhead rail

 

 

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Ian_H said:

I hadn't thought about the complexities of constructing a curved crossover with Wayne's kits, again referring back to Eastwood Town, I don't think Gordon had a straight turnout on the layout ... everything curved and by golly, it looked good!

 

You also mentioned the cost of copperclad strips which has gone up in recent years, Marcway have their "CCS4-GF OO/EM 4mm Wide PCB Glass Fibre Strip 18X12" at £16.50  whereas C&L strips are "12' 4MM X 1.6 MM X 220MM PACK 20" for, as you say, £19.00. It would seem that Marcway is better value on the amount of copperclad that they provide, perhaps enough to construct 4 turnouts? Clearly, from your pricing, a copper clad crossover would cost £14~£18, a significant saving but closeup won't look as good as Wayne's kits. An alternative that is being discussed is Martin Wynne's 3D Plug Track which looks like it could will be able to produce complexed formations but the cost of the printer maybe prohibitive at this stage.

 

Ian

 

 

Marcway/SMP 1.2mm timbers can also be bought per sheet of 25 timber strips for £22.90, as they have a minimum of £20 for orders better than buying 2 x 18 packs, unless that is you need 2 packs.

 

 

I also have an idea about making a jig for soldering up common crossings using the non copper foiled edging strips.

 

Also I ordered these on Thursday arrived today (Monday) via Evri . Trouble is I have run out of black ink in my printer so cannot get on with my next job

[martin_wynne]

33 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Trouble is I have run out of black ink in my printer so cannot get on with my next job

 

Hi John,

 

You don't need black ink to print Templot templates. Click this option:

 

 

 

Set the single colour...  to whatever you want, or have got plenty of.

 

You can also set the output colours individually in the menu.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

Sorry my bad explanation, I also struggle with the Societies switch blade jigs, to that end I use this one made by a Canadian company Fast Tracks

 

 

Its a dual purpose jig, from one end you slide the rail in for Vees, the other end for switches

 

 

Each side has two groves, the shorter one on the left has a much greater angle and the rail is threaded from the right, the longer groove on the right has a longer and shallower angle and the rail is threaded from the left

 

There are two sides which mirror each other, the foot of flatbottom rail sits between the two halves, so it has to be handed. Bullhead just slides in either side and has to be slid in the right way round. Its so much easier to use than the society jig, BUT only files one side

 

Its equally important to have sharp files, my best files I only use on hard metals. Not whitemetal castings and certainly not glassfibre copperclad strip, I use older files for these

 

 

 

On this view the rail is slid in from the left and the rail sticks out of the longer slot, it only files one side which sits against the stock rail. Once filed I use a flat needle file to shape the head of the rail on the other side, in the past I have used the society switch jigs to file the head back

 

These jigs are designed for flatbottom rail between code 70 and 100, as it happens it also works on code 75 bullhead rail

 

 

Thanks John. I misunderstood that earlier - I thought the Fast Tracks jig only did vees. It makes more sense now.

 

How long is the taper on 75BH when you use the jig?

[hayfield]

23 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Thanks John. I misunderstood that earlier - I thought the Fast Tracks jig only did vees. It makes more sense now.

 

How long is the taper on 75BH when you use the jig?

 

 

Looks to be about 30mm but I stop the rail about 2mm early and sometimes reduce the length after filing, but the other jigs seem more hit or miss on how much you take off