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Stockrington - Mojo ignited. Thanks, Heljan!


jukebox
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Hi Robert;

 

Yes, the small turntable would be a boon scenically, but operationally? Another issue with having it where it sat in the real world is how wide the baseboard would be. However, a 70ft-er could be put where the tool/van sidings are....

 

I agree with you about the relative sizes of turnouts and that small ones do not look out of place in a depot. I guess I am being rather cautious until I actual get the Mikado finished. Lets just say it would be an epic tragedy if I found the pride of my fleet couldn't reliably traverse into the main shed. I've got about 10 hours work to get the chassis for The Bruce operational - once that is sorted, I can do some proving trials. As I said, it may just be that I need two of the eight roads serviced by large radus turnouts and the rest can be medium/shorts.

 

Yes, I had fixed the ash road as a "must have" - in reality I think the locos were cleaned out in front of the shed itself! There are some photos that show the clinker and muck deep in piles there. Removing the ash roads would make using the real plan much more possible...

 

On Tuesday I was able to print a 1:76 scale plan of the real Stockton using a our plotter at work, as well as a full sized copy of my third iteration design. The more I look at it, the more I want to follow the real deal. That's a good thing, I think! Having said that, I'd like to see your sketches - maybe an amalgam of features will be the best way forward.

 

Once the floor is down in my room - Monday, allegedly - I shall roll both of my plots out, and have some pondering time. Me, my plans, and a glass (or two) of shiraz. That's the ticket!

 

Regards

 

Scott

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I have just learned that Graham Jowett-Ives (Capt. Jango) of Hannem Central fame passed away yesterday.

 

This is incredibly sad news. Graham was an inspiration to me, and someone who I was proud to have known, if only briefly, and from a great distance away.

 

His layout, Hannem Central, was the sort of old fashioned "fun" that we sometimes lose sight of in our quest for realism.

 

You may have see it in a recent Railway Modeller, if not, there is an extensive thread here.

 

He would not have wanted us to be saddened at his passing - he knew he was ill, and felt he had lived a full life - but I do wish I had been able to say goodbye.

 

RIP friend.

 

Scott

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There are days when the process of building a dedicated layout room is, quite simply, enthusiasm sapping, and I am so utterly fed up that it takes all my self control not to scream.

 

Yesterday was one of those days.

 

Prosecution exhibit #1: Stockrington, layout room:

 

post-8688-0-84818500-1355210376.jpg

 

Mrs.Jukebox thought I was joking when I told her what was wrong.

 

I wasn't.

 

And I'll be damned if I am going to leave it like that.

 

Picked it yet?

 

Cheers

 

Scott

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I have just learned that Graham Jowett-Ives (Capt. Jango) of Hannem Central fame passed away yesterday.

 

This is incredibly sad news. Graham was an inspiration to me, and someone who I was proud to have known, if only briefly, and from a great distance away.

 

His layout, Hannem Central, was the sort of old fashioned "fun" that we sometimes lose sight of in our quest for realism.

 

You may have see it in a recent Railway Modeller, if not, there is an extensive thread here.

 

He would not have wanted us to be saddened at his passing - he knew he was ill, and felt he had lived a full life - but I do wish I had been able to say goodbye.

 

RIP friend.

 

Scott

 

Just picked up your post and followed your link to Grahams layout. I hadn't seen it before and was very impressed with the stock and overall feel of the layout. I found it quite sad reading Graham's postings about his health, some of which were just a few weeks ago.

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That is pretty much all I could spot too.

 

If that isn't it, I hope that Gordon and I haven't set you off worrying about something else now.

Edited by Sandside
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We have a winner!

 

Erm... Left and right walls aren't parallel? (They seem closer together at the bottom) :beee: The flooring has been laid the wrong way?

 

The light switch is at layout height?

 

I'd specified - in writing - that the boards were to run the same direction as the long walls.

 

So yesterday afternoon, when Mrs Jukebox proudly emailed me a photo of what was to be the final task that needed to be done before I could get going with Stockrington, completed and ready to occupy, you can imagine the incandesence...

 

The power situation is, I think, fine. Four double GPO's - two at each end - should cover me,

 

Oh well...

 

Scott

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I suppose we should at least be grateful that they managed to get it the right way up... What are you going to do? Get them to relay it all, or just accept it and get going on the layout?

 

Was there a reason you wanted it parallel to the long walls?

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I didn't like to say that Scott as that was not something that could be fixed easily.... :O

 

I agree boards are normally laid along the length of the room, but was guessing the boards in the hallway off to the right also ran in that direction. I'd wait a little before ripping it all up though. Once the layout boards are in place it will look fine as the amount of wood flooring visible will be considerably less. Rather than getting them to take it all up, you may be able to negotiate a considerable discount that may just help ease the visual frustration.

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Thinking about it a little more, there is no hard and fast rule to which way round the boards are laid. The direction will change the visual aspect of the room either making it seem longer or wider. With them laid that way round, it will continue the flow from the hall outside and make the room visually wider.

 

We've just had a similar discussion with friends who are having a wood floor laid in their extended lounge. Down the room made it look like a long thin room. Across the room changed the visual aspect completely and gave a more rounded appearance.

 

As you put in writing exactly what you wanted, the builder would have to pull it up and start again. A large element of loss to them, so if you can live with it, a significant discount via negotiation would be a viable alternative.

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Well, there's some small mercies at play here, Fortunately.

 

It's not my ham fisted builder who did this, but the (previously impeccable) floor installer. This guy has been so good to us - tolerated four re-schedulings totalling four months, and arranged a workable soloution to the Frankenstein floor that he was left to lay on by Steptoe and Son. We're incredibly pleased with the rest of the job he did upstairs, and in cladding the stairs themselves, and would still recommend him to anyone we knew who needed a floor. Here's the hallway and landing leading to the railway room, which you are correct Gordon, is perpendicular to the way I want the layout room:

 

post-8688-0-00488600-1355221556.jpg

I suspect the guys laying it will have seen the hallway and figured they needed to match that...

 

That floor is proper polished Marri floorboards, stuck and nailed to the chipboard structaloor underneath. But I didn't want to use that in the layout room, because 80% of it will disappear under the layout and it's not cheap, and each time I split paint or glue, or made a mess, I'd be cursing myself. So I specified a laminated floor for the railway room. It's 1/2 the cost per square metre, and comes in clip fit tongue-and-groove packs of around 1500mm length. So in theory, it actually should be a lot easier to recover and re-install (apparently the Marri cannot be lifted - even though they are 12mm boards, they will just splinter when lifted...).

 

I did think about how much I would have to be offered to accept it to "use as is". We've been charged under £400 to lay that room (that's lay, not including materials), so in the big scheme of things there's not a lot in play. Honestly, if he offered to do it for free, I'd still want it fixed...

 

As for the alignment, Gordon, you have it in one: going long ways makes the room look longer. And the problem with leaving it as is, the operating well would have a seies of staggered joints in every second row of timbers. It would just look wrong.

 

The vexxatious thing is the time it steals. Any plans to move boxes of railway supplies this weekend have now been scuttled.

 

Where's that bottle of scotch I've been saving.... :banghead:

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Okay, in an attempt to keep things positive, let's change gears:

 

I've SCARM'd the Stockton trackplan:

 

post-8688-0-81231900-1355232422_thumb.jpg

post-8688-0-86275400-1355232458_thumb.jpg

 

One of the limitations of SCARM is that it ends up being very set-track-esque. When it comes time to lay out the MPD, I will use a combination of the SCARM output and a 1:76 plot of the actual Stockton MPD, and then do some surgery on the turnouts to help them fit in a more prototypical fashion.

 

For the representation above, I kept the coaling stage, lost the ash road, and shifted the turntable - now 70ft - to in front of the shed , adding a two way throat to the 'table.

 

It was very tempting to fill the open space around the table with "just a few more tracks", but I don't want to meander away from the Stockton/Haverton Hill ethos, which I think I have started to capture in the latest incarnation...

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Can I ask what the line is at the bottom of your plan? (The one that starts blue, turns black and has a couple of points on it...) If that is a running line, then any movement round the shed would block the running line. You may need to add a head-shunt to free the movement round the shed.

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Hi Scott,

 

You beat me to it - I was getting round to having a go at drawing up some shed plans for you (honest!)

 

What you've produced in essence seems fine to me and was broadly what I was going to suggest. I think this is a good balance between trying to create plenty of place to stable locos versus a feeling of space (and the look of the original). A couple of suggestions however:

 

I had the same question as Michael in terms of the entrance/exit point from the depot and the need for a 'protection' spur accordingly (2 points that would work as a crossover).

 

I wonder if the parallel road at the top of the plan is a bit too parallel and makes it look a bit too regimented (and train set like)? Although there's no need to from a pure model railway perspective, putting these on an angle may add to the air of believability (and replicate the fact that the open sidings at the top left of the prototype plan were at an angle to the main shed building. You could always put some shed office buildings in the space created.

 

I'd move the crossover at the left of the coal stage more to the left. You've got loads of shed stabling space so I don't think you'd miss the space outside the bottom road of the shed. Conversely, you'd gain a space at the coal stage (so perhaps two locos could be there at once?) and you create more of a believable looking 'loop' for one-way movements round the shed. You could even make the spur at the left hand end alongside the bottom of the shed (where the locos reverse having been on the coal stage?) as a designated ash disposal space which creates the natural 'flow' round the depot?

 

I've (crudely) altered your plan to show some of these ideas:

post-16151-0-72763300-1355239957.jpg

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Just picked up your post and followed your link to Grahams layout. I hadn't seen it before and was very impressed with the stock and overall feel of the layout. I found it quite sad reading Graham's postings about his health, some of which were just a few weeks ago.

 

Thanks for your kind thoughts, Gordon. Apparently Graham was an accomplished painter, too - spent a large part of his last few months completing commissions of naval subjects.

 

There are some wonderful cameos on Hannem Central - and his stable of 90+ locos was something to envy. His legacy will be the hints and tips he left in his replies to so many people's questions "how did you...?". I had actually sent him a PM about gradients on Hannem that went unanswered in late November - which I admit made me wonder if everything was as okay as he'd suggested. In hindsight, obviously it wasn't...

 

I'm only 45, but his passing has made me feel quite mortal. He was very matter of fact about his health - but the speed at which the prostate cancer took hold still shocks me.

 

Co-incidentally, I read this quote today: "Every time you kiss your child goodnight, you should specifically consider the possibility that she might die tomorrow. (It) will make you love her all the more, while reducing the shock should that awful eventuality ever come to pass" (Epictetus).

 

It is so very true that we sometimes forget how temporary our passage on this planet is.

 

gallery_9591_310_17944.jpg

An "LMS day" on the late Graham Jowett-Ives' Hannem Central

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Can I ask what the line is at the bottom of your plan? (The one that starts blue, turns black and has a couple of points on it...) If that is a running line, then any movement round the shed would block the running line. You may need to add a head-shunt to free the movement round the shed.

 

Hi Michael - the blue line is the rising track that comes from the storage yard (It continues off to the left. Post #45 shows more of the detail) The siding to the coaling stage joins it, then it meets one of the running lines via a trailing turnout.

 

The configuration is almost identical to Stockton - which is where I got the inspiration to run the coaling stage siding off the mainline. But I do see what you mean - any movement from the first four loads of the shed that requires a trip to the other shed roads or turntable, would foul that main turnout that joins the running line - something avoided in the real thing as there is more than twice the total length I have to fit the track from the shed fans to the the mainline connection:

 

post-8688-0-83315800-1355312811_thumb.jpg

 

But I think I have a soloution....

 

Hi Scott,

 

You beat me to it - I was getting round to having a go at drawing up some shed plans for you (honest!)

 

What you've produced in essence seems fine to me and was broadly what I was going to suggest. I think this is a good balance between trying to create plenty of place to stable locos versus a feeling of space (and the look of the original). A couple of suggestions however:

 

I had the same question as Michael in terms of the entrance/exit point from the depot and the need for a 'protection' spur accordingly (2 points that would work as a crossover).

 

I wonder if the parallel road at the top of the plan is a bit too parallel and makes it look a bit too regimented (and train set like)? Although there's no need to from a pure model railway perspective, putting these on an angle may add to the air of believability (and replicate the fact that the open sidings at the top left of the prototype plan were at an angle to the main shed building. You could always put some shed office buildings in the space created.

 

I'd move the crossover at the left of the coal stage more to the left. You've got loads of shed stabling space so I don't think you'd miss the space outside the bottom road of the shed. Conversely, you'd gain a space at the coal stage (so perhaps two locos could be there at once?) and you create more of a believable looking 'loop' for one-way movements round the shed. You could even make the spur at the left hand end alongside the bottom of the shed (where the locos reverse having been on the coal stage?) as a designated ash disposal space which creates the natural 'flow' round the depot?

 

I've (crudely) altered your plan to show some of these ideas:

post-16151-0-72763300-1355239957.jpg

 

I agree with all your suggestions Robert - looking at the LNER diagram, I see a water column immediately to the left of the coaling stage as well.

To fit a headshunt, I would need to use a double slip at the throat - possibly slightly modified as on a certain LNER themed layout you may be familiar with? - but it certainly does work.

Something like this:

 

post-8688-0-30581100-1355314159_thumb.jpg

 

I do believe I can get the shed roads a touch closer to one another, and group them in four pairs. Also, the shed is essentially two four road sheds, and I'd adjust for that as well, but it seems that I can get a plausible NER flavoured MPD to work in that space. A good result!

 

Scott

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Yeah, that's now got a nice shed 'feel' to it now Scott,

 

I thought of the use of the double slip myself as part of the shed entrance. You might just want to check though in terms of radius of the curves on the DS as you expressed concerns earlier over your kit built locos negotiating the tighter curves?

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I've got two different Double Slips "at hand" as it were - the Peco, which is 600mm radius, and a Shinohara #6, which is 1067mm radius ~ allegedly (I suspect it may be a little less).

 

I do like the idea of using the smaller one - in keeping with the "cramped" way a shed yard flows - I may be able to tweak the plan a bit more so that upper four roads are accessible by long wheelbase and kit locos as these would pass straight across the slip, and the bottom four shed roads could be for smaller and RTR locos. But that would keep those same larger locos from being postioned under the coaling stage; it may just be a compromise I need to make - we shall see. I will be laying one of the Shinohara slips early in the piece, as it is used to get down to the storage roads, so I'll be able to take a look at how much that taxes all my locos before I proceed with installing the Peco ones anywhere.

 

On another note, I forgot to relay the sorry conclusion to the floorboard debacle: it turns out the engineered (floating) floor has less tolerence to local level variations than the direct stick boards, as the tongues in the tongue-and-groove board tend to sheer off if overstressed, and the village idiot builder's floor was that badly built that the floor installer could barely get it to the edge of tolerence, let alone level, and so was compelled to run the boards across the room (there is a 10mm drop over 2m across the face of the room right near the doorway). He claims he explained that to me when he told me how he planned to make it all work - but clearly he didn't do a very good job of it, given my reaction this week. Mind you, he also claims I spoke of installing carpet in the room - which is utter b*ll*cks, as I'd never contemplate carpet in a railway room - I would have gone a vinyl or other faux finished floor. But, honestly, I just have to stop thinking about what might have been: I run the real risk of ending up with depression (or worse) if I stew on it any more - it's been a year of utter anguish managing these moron tradesmen, and like so many other things, this last mess can't be made right, so I'm stuck with it, and I just need to learn to live with it, or I risk doing my health a serious injury.

 

The microscopic grain of silver lining is that I now can shift the myriad boxes and materials upstairs this weekend, and feel like I am moving forward. I just have to focus on that.

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The microscopic grain of silver lining is that I now can shift the myriad boxes and materials upstairs this weekend, and feel like I am moving forward. I just have to focus on that.

 

And by the time you've got all the boxes and materials in, will you be able to see the floor? ;)

 

I like the revamp of the plan - the double slip does make a difference to the appearance. However, I'm not convinced by the sidings above the turntable - there appears to be quite a reverse curve into them. My first understanding of Robert's comments on parallel lines was that he was refering to the one above the shed - I wonder if that could be tilted slightly, allowing an easing of the reverse curve - or even running straight into the other pair, as if there was a boundary at an angle to the shed building? This would also help mimic the overall shape of the Stockton shed plan, with it being wider at the shed end...

 

Maybe a bit like this (apologies for the crudeness)

 

post-6640-0-88398400-1355321395.jpg

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And by the time you've got all the boxes and materials in, will you be able to see the floor? ;)

 

I like the revamp of the plan - the double slip does make a difference to the appearance. However, I'm not convinced by the sidings above the turntable - there appears to be quite a reverse curve into them. My first understanding of Robert's comments on parallel lines was that he was refering to the one above the shed - I wonder if that could be tilted slightly, allowing an easing of the reverse curve - or even running straight into the other pair, as if there was a boundary at an angle to the shed building? This would also help mimic the overall shape of the Stockton shed plan, with it being wider at the shed end...

 

Maybe a bit like this (apologies for the crudeness)

 

post-6640-0-88398400-1355321395.jpg

 

Ah, now that's better! I, too, was struggling how to justify the wayward path of that uppermost track - I was thinking that I may need to introduce some terrain* that needed avoiding on that edge of the layout. But now that you have marked it up, a laneway, road or even just a fenceline there would make good logic, and provide a reason for the track to run along as you have drawn it.

 

If it were the laneway leading to the shed, I could even take it across the headshunt and run in down next to the side of the shed.

 

I only have the plotter for another day or so, so I'll burn the midnight oil tonight to update that diagram and print it out.

 

*The area where Northmoor MPD will sit is the only area I plan to use a flat board as the track base - so the prospect of having to introduce contours here was a little off putting. The logic here is that an MPD is one of the few areas on a railway that you would actually find large open flat expanses - most other places, the object of the exercise was to shift as little dirt as possible to fit the tracks in. Therefore, the rest of Stockrington is planned to be open topped L-girder construction, so i can try and let the land flow in contours, not rise off a plain.

 

Coming in 2013, as they say. ;)

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Yeah, good shout from Michael. It did cross my mind to angle this far road as suggested (to get away from the parallel-ism) but I wasn't sure how much room you had. I would still be tempted to let the right hand end 'wander' a little though, rather than arrow straight for its whole length. Many shed plans seem to have open air roads away from the main shed building that have a mind of their own for no apparent reason! Even looking at the prototype plan for Stockton, the road to the turntable curves away from the other roads to reach the turntable more than it needs to...?

 

Finally, in the (triangular) space now created between the far road and the shed wall, you could feature some shed office buildings, vital features that are all too easily missed of many a model depot. This would also tie in with your idea of making the laneway cross the tracks to get access to the shed.

 

 

On another topic, I have just picked up the January edition of Railway Modeller and - lo and behold - the 'Railway of the Month' feature is none other than 'Hannem Central'. A touch poignant to say the least. He (Graham) clearly loved a mainline railway - sounds like he was my sort of guy.

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Morning Scott.

 

I agree with Michael's sketched suggestion in post 71. However, a dead straight line is a bit "out of character" with the rest of the roads into your shed, so I'd suggest just the merest hint of a curve on the long, top line. Curving down at left, up at right.

 

Otherwise, the plan is looking very good. And btw, the number of times I've gone past the Stockton/Haverton Hill yard must run into thousands!

 

Jeff

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Well, it's always "not quite enough space"... when I tried to run a line along that imaginary top boundary, it didn't seem to mesh as well as it should. So with a little tweaking, I came out with this:

 

post-8688-0-83249800-1355466783_thumb.jpg

 

As the right hand and upper limits ot the sketch are actually layout edges, I was keen to keep a 100mm barrier around them - so the boundary did not want to play nicely - if i ran the track stright, and avoided the turntable, it looked too parallel (still). I was thinking of having a coal stockpile to the side of one of the roads on the right - they seem to be a very common aspect of NE MPD's, but one that I have never seen modelled. I might even be able to extend the headshunt at the upper left - the area behind the shed is the embankment and viaduct for the Monkwearmouth-esque bridge, so there could be a little wriggle room to play with.

 

I like that besides the shed roads, there are still some places where locos coming off shed can be held - the head shunt off the slip, the loop track that leads to the turntable spur, even the wandering track at the top of the board. There's a 300mm square that looks rather empty behind the turntable - I shall study my LNER Shed in Camera volume to see just what sorts of infrastructure there was around a steam depot. I'm sure I will find something of interest - it's a rather large piece of real estate - maybe a boiler sludge pond, with some reeds and a few ducks on it??? :unsure:

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