Static Grass Tips and Techniques

[BlackRat]

I've used lightly diluted PVA, with a teaspoon of salt added.

 

I thought it would assist with the conductivity.

 

Dunno if the salt makes a difference but it works for me!

[Campaman]

With my home made applicator i have made a funnel attachment to get into tight spaces

[Andy Y]

The question I've got that prompted the revival is to ask what others do when trying to apply static grass when in close proximity to things like backscenes, bridge abutments, retaining walls and the like because I've found I simply cannot get the applicator close enough to where I want it to go to do a good job. 

So far, the best results I've had have involved chucking a generous pinch of "grass" at the glue then waving the charged applicator as close to the scene of the action as I can get it in the hope of getting the threads to stand on end  The results have, at best, been no more than okay, and never good enough to get away without introducing some kind of scenic break (a fence, a bush, a clump of weeds or undergrowth) between them and the areas where the applicator could be wielded the way the manufacturer intended.

I use a Green Scene Flock-it which handily has the same size lid as the tubs of Vanish Mrs Y uses. I stole a lid, butchered a funnel and stuck some fly-net mesh on the inside of the aperture. Works for me. I know Green Scene do sell a more professional version though.

 

 

Excuse the quality of the quick night-time snap.

[mike morley]

That's good enough for me!  Thank you

[Giles]

Grass up against walls, trees, or indeed clumps of grass is is REALLY easy......

 

Dab a bit of PVA wherever you want your grass, then take a SMALL hand full of your static grass mix, and roll it between the palms of your hands - like making a plasticine snake. This aligns the fibres.

Take your snake, or grass cigarette, and pull off the end, and push the end into the PVA. Repeat until you've covered your glue. Let it dry. It looks very strange at the moment, but don't worry.

When dry, vigorously attack with a hoover, and job done.....

 

I did some v boring videos on the subject.

 

Part 1

 

 

Part 2

 

 

Part 3

Edited September 29, 2013 by Giles

[The White Rabbit]

Giles - on behalf of the lazy b*gg*rs, do you have a link to parts 1 & 2? Looks interesting... 

 

One alternative method I've used is to take a pinch of fibres between thumb and forefinger and 'comb' this with the other thumb and forefinger. This also gives a clump of fibres all pointing the same way which you can plant in a spot of glue. 

 

Funnels, further to Andy's post, the GreenScene funnel screws on the bottom of their Flock-It and costs £10. The Noch version also has a funnel which screws on the base. (I've tried both and the GreenScene one is more powerful and is cheaper). 

[N15class]

I have found this all most imformative, Much for me to think about while I consider my layout.

[Vistisen]

Another important tip, don't move the nail, while pressing the button on the applicator. I did this and fell over backwards

[Andy Y]

 trouble for me is finding a suitable length 'tall grass' which will represent the 'morfa' area in Prestatyn; all the ones I've seen so far are either too green; too short or too long!!

 

 

Have a go at mixing your own David. Using Woodland Scenics Field Grass - http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/fieldgrass/ you can blend your own lengths and colour mixes. You may look at a pack and think "that's not much for £3.00" but it goes further than you think.

 

The tufts on BCB's wasteland were applied by hand rather than through a grass machine but it uses the aforementioned materials. In fact you'll struggle to get long fibres through the tea-strainer types of applicator, it needs something with a big mesh and a bit of oomph.

 

 

Click to blow it up to full size.

[F2Andy]

I am thinking about using static grass myself soon, and I am starting to think about how to do it. Interesting to read about conductive glue; I had wondered about that, and thought about adding salt. Has anyone tried that? Does it have a detrimental effect on the glue?

 

Do you leave a patch of grass to dry with the applicator still connected so the glue dries wth the grass upright?

 

What does the applicator actually do? Sure, it sprinkles the grass, but do you really need in anywhere near by? The effect (I guess) comes down to repulsive forces between each thread making them stand on end (like hair standing on end with a static charge). As long as the threads fall end first, all should be well, I would have thought. Or is the trick in the way they fall?

Edited October 10, 2013 by F2Andy

[3 link]

Hi Giles,

 

A bit of a numpty question maybe, but how do you apply and secure the fine coatings of real soil ( dust ) to the layout. I just thought that maybe PVA  might take the natural colour away as it does with granite ballast.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[Andy Y]

Hi Giles,

 

A bit of a numpty question maybe, but how do you apply and secure the fine coatings of real soil ( dust ) to the layout. I just thought that maybe PVA  might take the natural colour away as it does with granite ballast.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

 

Hopefully Giles will be able to give his angle on it but I've had no problems with brushing neat PVA onto boards, sprinkling with Treemendus Earth Powder (a fine real silt) and then leaving to dry for 6+ hours before vacuuming off the excess. Once completely dry it doesn't affect the colour of the material but it may look a little darker when it's first soaking in. 

 

[Re6/6]

I find the cone shaped funnel invaluable for those 'hard to get at' places.

 

 

These snaps of an early experiment were taken on the old Matford just after I got my Noch GrasMaster., Not quite right. Should have been weeds as well.

The 'holy grail' is to get the grass to 'bend' effectively!

 

 

Edited October 12, 2013 by Re6/6

[Giles]

Hopefully Giles will be able to give his angle on it but I've had no problems with brushing neat PVA onto boards, sprinkling with Treemendus Earth Powder (a fine real silt) and then leaving to dry for 6+ hours before vacuuming off the excess. Once completely dry it doesn't affect the colour of the material but it may look a little darker when it's first soaking in. 

 

Absolutely. However, a note on the soil....

I take garden soil, and dry it thoroughly (usually by baking!) and then remove all the stones and small roots etc - by sieving and also by hand - and then crush the soil to dust, using a steel/brass bar/rolling pin. This then gives you 'scale soil'.

I always apply it (generously) via a tea-strainer, and then hoover (with tights reclaiming system) back the excess. It will appear dark whilst wet, but then dry back lighter. I tend to use slightly watered down PVA for convenience, but there's nothing in it.

 

The other thing to remember, is ash.... Bonfires coming up..... Collect jars of different colours of ash! Brilliant for this sort of thing, paths, ballast etc.etc.....

[Giles]

Bending grass is quite possible - it just takes a little patience and care - there are some bits in the photo below, such as the clump beside the loco buffer beam, and another alongside the buffer stops down by the water.

You do need a temperature controlled soldering iron, and start off with it cold, and gradually raise the temp, placing the iron along side the grass. When it is the right temperature, the fibre will start to curl towards the iron.... DON'T get the iron too hot, as the grass will frazzle...... So patience is required to set it up.

Works a bit like curling tongs, I suppose..... i've never had that much hair....

 

Like all the things, a little does make a lot of difference to the overall picture.

 

[3 link]

Thank you Andy and Giles,

 

I am far from reaching the scenic stages but I will remember this helpful advice for when hopefully that day comes, at least no one can question the choice of soil colour if it is the real thing.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[Re6/6]

Thanks for the tip Giles. I'd never have thought of that in a month of Sundays!

[richard-g8jvm]

Hi

If the applicator is too big, get a 1/2" glass or acrylic rod, and wear a pullover with lots of man made fibre in it, wear well insulated footware , slippers or something,

not bare feet as you don't want to discharge yourself too quickly.

Rub the rod up and down the sleeve of the pullover /jumper, and you should build up enough charge to make the grass stand up , by putting the rod close to it.

 

BTW you may just get a shock if you touch something that is at ground potential afterwards, not enough to do any damage, about the same as you sometimes get in the summer

when driving , getting out of the car and touching the door handle.

 

Just the same as rubbing a balloon up and down on your jumper, then watching it stick to the ceiling.

post how you get on doing it.

[Montague]

Thank you Andy and Giles,

 

I am far from reaching the scenic stages but I will remember this helpful advice for when hopefully that day comes, at least no one can question the choice of soil colour if it is the real thing.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

Just remember that the real thing will probably look darker on your layout than it does in natural lighting.

[The White Rabbit]

Just remember that the real thing will probably look darker on your layout than it does in natural lighting.

 

For those that haven't been through this stage of modelling, I'd say that wherever possible, choose your colours in the same lighting as the finished model will be seen in.

 

Also, 'scale-colour' means that a colour match does not always work - usually for colours to look accurate on a model, you need to tone them down a bit compared to the full size version - otherwise they will look too dark (in whatever type of lighting you use). 

[mkwolf1877]

Great thread this, thanks for all the useful posts on here. I'm looking at getting some static grass but having never used it before I haven't a clue which ones are best quality, best value etc. Has anyone any recommendations?

 

Many Thanks

[Re6/6]

I  find them all 'much of a muchness' with application.

 

Some of them are too 'nuclear' green for my liking. The real world doesn't ever seem to be that bright to my eyes.

 

The longest, if you are looking for long grass of up to 3 feet in 4mm scale Heki and Noch do 10 and 12mm fibres. These can be a bit bright so a general mixing of the winter/autumn/summer shade can work well. It's all a matter of experimenting to see what works best for you.

 

http://www.howardscenicsupplies.co.uk/heki-3378-static-grass-10mm-autumn-50g/

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/product/39200/07110_Noch_Static_Grass_Meadow_40g_with_12mm_fibres

 

I particularly like the 'MiniNatur' grasses (up to 6mm long) available from International Models as they are a little more 'muted' in their shades of green.

http://www.internationalmodels.net/acatalog/Grass_Fibres.html

 

I’ve used all these suppliers with good service from all.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Re6/6

[mike morley]

I agree entirely with RE6/6 on this.

 

With regard to quality and ease of use they are mostly same vicinity.  It's in the colour that they vary and is where you should look long and hard before deciding what to buy, because  "real" colours look cartoonish in model form and would need to be muted an awful lot to look convincing in, say, 4mm scale.

[allan downes]

I have the Noch Grass Master, a packet of fibres at what you would pay for a packet of gold dust, PVA glue watered down with salt water and the ONLY time that I ever got the damn grass to stand up was when Peter Marriot, THE scenic wizard, came all the way out from Milton Keynes to show me how and ever since then I have had the flattest grass in the modelling world !

 

This afternoon I gave it another shot and, yes once again and without fail - perfectly flat grass !

 

I'm now off to join the Flat Earth Society.

 

Allan.

 

PS: will paint - emulsion acrylic whatever - do as an adhesive instead of very "Special glue" at very "special"  prices?!

[Giles]

Allan, just between you and me, I don't think the Noch GrassMaster is necessarily all it's cracked up to be – and in the best of hands it still leaves some of the grass lying flat...

 

I did The End of The Line with a Noch GrassMaster, and got to know it quite well, and used bog-standard PVA (about 60%) and water (40%). Of course the highlighting was done by hand anyway.....

 

A year ago, I saw a demonstration of the Green-Scenes Flock-it machine, and bought one on the spot, and found it very much better than the Noch. I was then lucky enough to sell the Noch on Flea-Bay for the same amount as I bought the Green-Scenes job - so I was very happy!

 

Green-scenes also do a special glue - which is extremely good - but I still use the bog-standard builders PVA..........

 

I doubt that emulsion paint alone is going to do it - but it may be worth a try.... Don't hold you're breath though....

 

Best of luck

 

Giles

Edited November 27, 2013 by Giles