Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

My goodness, what a lovely collection!  John Brown was clearly a skilled modeller and the painting and lining is exquisite.  Wrong company for me, but I hope they find appreciative homes.

Good morning Alan,

 

You're right - it is (part of) a lovely collection. However, and I am not besmirching the memory of a friend, John was not a skilled modeller at all. In fact, he admitted to being unable to build/paint locos/carriages at all for himself. 

 

He was a commissioner of models. He identified what he wanted and, in most cases, had the models (particularly the better ones) built on his instruction. Others (the not-quite-so-good ones) he would acquire off eBay or via private sales. 

 

The one thing he never claimed was that he was a 'modeller', at least with regard to making locos/stock. I've put 'modeller' in speech marks to emphasise the word as a verb. He was very interested in model railways and was Chairman of Spalding MRC for many years, so was, thus, very active in the hobby. However, he never wrote to suggest that 'he' was 'building' things (in the first person) nor give the impression (as you have formed) that what he had was 'his' work. He was a lovely man. 

[thegreenhowards]

Thank's Andy,

 

you saved me a bit of time there. The RU had gone by the summer 1958 season possibly a better time for the maroon livery. However, the formation had changed quite a bit. A batch of three Thompson SLSTP's and two twin SLF's are included, the MK1's had gone walk about replaced by a Thompson CK and 2x TK's but the venerable SLS would seem to be the same. It's a shame your not doing the 1948/49, just look at the catering cars.

Andrew,

 

Wow, they look superb! I didn't realise that the Coronation stock appeared post war in the blue and silver livery!

 

The Aberdonian had a wobble in 1957/8. It moved much later in the evening with a 1015 departure and a very different formation. However there was still a sleeper train in the old slot departing slightly later at 1945. It still had the d.161/2, but they were the only sleepers for Aberdeen. The Fort William portion remained unchanged except that it had the later (1937?) SLC rather than a d.20 and ran in the 1945 train with the RU still attached to the back. The Aberdonian itself became sleeper only and there was no need for the RU because it left so late.

 

I assume that this didn't work because in September 1958 the Aberdonian switched back to its earlier departure time (now 1930) and regained the RU. This train had the Thompsons and twin SLF that you mention, the d.161/2 disappears at this point, probably withdrawn. The later 1015 train still ran in 1958/9, but now conveyed seated accommodation as well.

 

Of course all this is based on the carriage workings. What we really need are some photos to confirm what ran in practice!

 

Andy

[jwealleans]

All the streamliner stock was stored during the war and returned to service afterwards, possibly apart from a twin damaged or destroyed in a fire at Doncaster Works. There are a couple of photos showing silver jubilee stock in service trains with teak carriages and I've seen one of one of the Beavertails still in two tone blue at York after the war as well.

[The Johnster]

I was amazed to find that there is a website that actually notes the planned special workings from all those years back. I have forgotten what that website is but then I forget most things these days. The other A4 I am aware of that ran down the WOEML  (the proper one, not the secondary route via Swindoom) as far as the Cathedral City of Devon, was Kingfisher in '65 I think it was. Both Mallard and  Kingfisher were admired by the SR crew(s) for their swiftness and comfortable rides  and performed very well from all accounts. Then there was Blue Peter in 1966 that didn't fare quite so well due to rubbish coal and being "a bit run down despite external appearances" and yes I know that is not an A4.

Ducky.

 

You mean the primary route via the Westbury cut-off?

[glo41f]

I love the Sentinal railcar. It is really distinctive model of an unusual piece of railway kit. I half built one of these in my 4mm days with a spud drive. I found that it was difficult to keep such long pieces of white metal (such as the sides) true and felt that they would have been better as an etch. However, when the kit was made  etching was very futuristic. It never got finished though and was sold to a chap on this forum. I hope he managed to get the thing running. I have loved to have seen one going. Pictures of them show clouds of exhaust and I guess the boiler area must have got as hot as Hades especially in the summer. I wonder why the LNER  followed this route when the NER  had already proved that a petrol railcar was viable and musty have been cheaper to run as there was no fireman required.  They also had such lovely names. Who could resist "Bang Up"?  I do hope it finds a good home.

 

Martin Long

[jwealleans]

Being pedantic, Bang Up was a Clayton railcar, not a Sentinel. Otherwise I agree.

 

I'm not convinced of the longevity of a Spud on a vehicle that heavy - I put a large BullAnt (Major) into mine and made a replacement floor from Paxolin, which reduced the weight somewhat. It's still a bit of a baseboard bender but it will haul two carriages as well as itself. Another one I reconditioned had a Black Beetle fitted and I've regretted not using another Major ever since. It's never been as good.

[Headstock]

Andrew,

 

Wow, they look superb! I didn't realise that the Coronation stock appeared post war in the blue and silver livery!

 

The Aberdonian had a wobble in 1957/8. It moved much later in the evening with a 1015 departure and a very different formation. However there was still a sleeper train in the old slot departing slightly later at 1945. It still had the d.161/2, but they were the only sleepers for Aberdeen. The Fort William portion remained unchanged except that it had the later (1937?) SLC rather than a d.20 and ran in the 1945 train with the RU still attached to the back. The Aberdonian itself became sleeper only and there was no need for the RU because it left so late.

 

I assume that this didn't work because in September 1958 the Aberdonian switched back to its earlier departure time (now 1930) and regained the RU. This train had the Thompsons and twin SLF that you mention, the d.161/2 disappears at this point, probably withdrawn. The later 1015 train still ran in 1958/9, but now conveyed seated accommodation as well.

 

Of course all this is based on the carriage workings. What we really need are some photos to confirm what ran in practice!

 

Andy

 

Evening Andy.

 

thanks for the information. I've only found one photo so far claiming to be from around 1956/57 it shows Blue Peter departing Aberdeen carrying the headboard. Behind the locomotive is the same or sister twin as in the screen grabs above. The carriage is in crimson and cream, I'm sending you a PM. I suspect that the twin may have been added to the train at Edinburgh for the run to Aberdeen and return. I notice that the 12.55 am off KX has a similar twin added at Newcastle for the run up to Edinburgh, the timings don't match to intercept with the Aberdonian but still of interest. The relevant CWN for the Aberdeen route would probably reveal more. Of course, it may also reflect a difference between winter and summer workings.

 

With regard to photographs, can I take it that the carriages you are interested in would be fairly static prior to 1956. Due to the images being before the introduction of maroon, they wouldn't be much help as regards liveries but they would confirm identification. Incidentally, did any of the sleepers have the toilets outboard of the end vestibule doors on the corridor side? Finally, didn't the southbound Aberdonian hit a local at Welwyn garden city in 1957, there are photos of this accident on-line and more probably in existence.

[Tony Wright]

Being pedantic, Bang Up was a Clayton railcar, not a Sentinel. Otherwise I agree.

 

I'm not convinced of the longevity of a Spud on a vehicle that heavy - I put a large BullAnt (Major) into mine and made a replacement floor from Paxolin, which reduced the weight somewhat. It's still a bit of a baseboard bender but it will haul two carriages as well as itself. Another one I reconditioned had a Black Beetle fitted and I've regretted not using another Major ever since. It's never been as good.

Thanks Jonathan,

 

The description of the motor said a SPUD, so I've checked. On the baseplate it's got Tenshodo WB-28.7 HANAZONO. Is that a SPUD? 

 

Whatever it is, it's really smooth and more than powerful enough it seems. It just purrs round Bytham, though I haven't added any other carriages. 

 

 

 

Speaking of mechanisms purring round; yesterday, Geoff West brought this pair of locos he'd bought off John Houlden. Both are Portescap-powered and both just glided round on their respective heavy trains. 

 

It's wonderful to be able to play host to visiting locos. 

[Headstock]

Thanks Jonathan,

 

The description of the motor said a SPUD, so I've checked. On the baseplate it's got Tenshodo WB-28.7 HANAZONO. Is that a SPUD? 

 

Whatever it is, it's really smooth and more than powerful enough it seems. It just purrs round Bytham, though I haven't added any other carriages. 

 

John Houlden V2.jpg

 

John Houlden WD.jpg

 

Speaking of mechanisms purring round; yesterday, Geoff West brought this pair of locos he'd bought off John Houlden. Both are Portescap-powered and both just glided round on their respective heavy trains. 

 

It's wonderful to be able to play host to visiting locos. 

 

Tony,

 

what is the providence, provenance, prominent, I give up, of the two fine looking locomotives above? I would have a guess at DJH for the WD and the V2 looks brass judging by the frame extensions, possibly Crownline?

Edited February 21, 2017 by Headstock

[Mallard60022]

You mean the primary route via the Westbury cut-off?

No, that was a branch line.

A. Pologies

[cctransuk]

Tony,

 

what is the providence of the two fine looking locomotives above? I would have a guess at DJH for the WD and the V2 looks brass judging by the frame extensions, possibly Crownline?

 

Providence ? Ooooh, you're on dangerous ground there !!!

 

Provenance, surely ?

 

Before Sir says it, you're in detention !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited February 21, 2017 by cctransuk

[The Johnster]

No, that was a branch line.

A. Pologies

 

I can't argue with that, since. originally, it was...

[jwealleans]

On the baseplate it's got Tenshodo WB-28.7 HANAZONO. Is that a SPUD?

I believe it is. Well done to the builder who managed to get it to run so well. It may be there are different varieties of SPUD, or (perhaps more likely) some of the castings in the kit have been replaced with lighter material. I know the example we have at Ormesby was all but unusable with the SPUD it had - went like hell one way and barely dragged itself along the other. I think Mick has had an all-too-brief experience with one as well.

[Headstock]

Providence ? Ooooh, you're on dangerous ground there !!!

 

Provenance, surely ?

 

Before Sir says it, you're in detention !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

I thought LB was the promised land?

[The Johnster]

I believe it is. Well done to the builder who managed to get it to run so well. It may be there are different varieties of SPUD, or (perhaps more likely) some of the castings in the kit have been replaced with lighter material. I know the example we have at Ormesby was all but unusable with the SPUD it had - went like hell one way and barely dragged itself along the other. I think Mick has had an all-too-brief experience with one as well.

 

Self Propelled Drive Unit, made by Tenshodo in various wheelbase lengths;  a self contained power bogie with a low profile originally I believe designed for tram and 'inter urban' modellers, which was/is a thing in the States and Japan.  I have a Greenwood and Batley battery drive steeple cab made out of plastikard sitting on top of one which is painted in Cardiff Corporation livery to represent the one which once shunted the canal wharf sidings that connected to the Clarence Road branch.

 

I found mine a bit lively, but controllable with care at low speed and much more powerful than it needed to be, having been told by an old timer when I was researching Clarence Road that the real Greenbat could only manage one full wagon or 3 empties, despite plenty of traction weight from the batteries.  The model could manage a dozen old Mainline or Lima wagons easily.  

Edited February 21, 2017 by The Johnster

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

what is the providence, provenance, prominent, I give up, of the two fine looking locomotives above? I would have a guess at DJH for the WD and the V2 looks brass judging by the frame extensions, possibly Crownline?

You're dead right, Andrew. 

 

DJH Austerity and Crownline V2. 

[Tony Wright]

I believe it is. Well done to the builder who managed to get it to run so well. It may be there are different varieties of SPUD, or (perhaps more likely) some of the castings in the kit have been replaced with lighter material. I know the example we have at Ormesby was all but unusable with the SPUD it had - went like hell one way and barely dragged itself along the other. I think Mick has had an all-too-brief experience with one as well.

Jonathan,

 

Many years ago I photographed a Nu-Cast steam railcar on Boosedale. I moved it by hand to get it into the exact position for a picture and almost gave myself a hernia!

 

This one is much lighter - in fact, it looks like the floor is made of sheet metal, not a cast lump. 

 

Whatever the power unit is, it seems fine for it. 

[CF MRC]

Self Propelled Drive Unit, made by Tenshodo in various wheelbase lengths;  a self contained power bogie with a low profile originally I believe designed for tram and 'inter urban' modellers, which was/is a thing in the States and Japan.  I have a Greenwood and Batley battery drive steeple cab made out of plastikard sitting on top of one which is painted in Cardiff Corporation livery to represent the one which once shunted the canal wharf sidings that connected to the Clarence Road branch.

 

I found mine a bit lively, but controllable with care at low speed and much more powerful than it needed to be, having been told by an old timer when I was researching Clarence Road that the real Greenbat could only manage one full wagon or 3 empties, despite plenty of traction weight from the batteries.  The model could manage a dozen old Mainline or Lima wagons easily.

 

On my son's OO train set we had a Tenshodo spud powering a 'Toby' tram engine. This was a diecast Ertl toy with the bottom milled out to make room for the machansm. It used to ertl (hurtle) round the layout, only slowing down on corners by going up on two wheels and then back to four. Nothing could catch it, great fun!

 

Tim

[Michael Edge]

The Tenshodo is fine until the bearings wear out or the gears split, the Black Beetle is much better. I have three LOR trains running on Herculaneum Dock, two are powered with Black Beetles, one has a Tenshodo, after a couple of hours exhibition running it's liable to stop running for no apparent reason. After an hour or so resting in the car shed it will come back to life again. Running on Cwmafon I have a Hunslet Scunthorpe Bo-Bo which has two Tenshodos and a lot of weight, I think it's on its third or fourth set of gears now.

[Barry O]

The spuds under the Horsfields and other Leeds Trams on Andy Ross's old Leeds Tram layout needed a lot of attention to keep them running. One had a set of brass bearings fitted but that was still problematical as it meant other parts (especially gears) wore out more quickly.

 

The Black Beetle fitted Horsfields (a modified diecast EFE model) was a lot better until one of the wheels became loose on oneaxle.

 

Baz

[Tony Wright]

Thanks for all the comments on the little power bogies.

 

Never having used any, I cannot comment from personal experience. All I will say is that the Sentinel railcar from John Brown's collection does run really sweetly. 

 

When I tested it, the tyre treads were dirty, so it's had some running. After cleaning the treads, it just purrs along. 

[unclebobkt]

       ....

  ... .  The customer was king.     Brit15

 

        When I worked in a private  hotel in FL. it was drilled into us on staff that: 'The Customer is king!'.  no matter how incnvenient that might be for those of us on staff.  The reason being that the customer paid our weekly running expenses and our wages...  QED..

 

       

[drmditch]

I admire all the above models very much. My version of a Sentinel railcar (Dia.89) No.272 'Hero' was first produced some years ago and contains several errors.

 

It now uses a Tenshodo motor bogie, and is becoming unreliable. Despite collecting current from both bogies, it picks up dirt very quickly, which I associate with arcing somewhere. It is due to be re-engined with a High_Level motor bogie with a Mashima motor.

 

Without wishing to be critical in any way, has anybody checked the Nu-Cast mouldings against the drawings? They look to me to be too narrow and slab sided.  On the originals it shows most clearly on an end view, when the sides curve out from the the vertical end panels.

 

According to the drawings re-produced in Yeadon  'Hope', Dia 96 has an extreme width of 9'3", while 'Hero', Dia 89 is only 9'2 1/2".  The models don't seem to reflect that.!

 

I have never seen another model of one of the articulated cars. I do hanker though after a model of 'Phenomena' - the only twin car Sentinel!

 

(EDITED to take out my rather crude pictures.)

Edited February 22, 2017 by drmditch

[unclebobkt]

        A Dictionary of Modern English Usage (1926), by Henry Watson Fowler is the foundation of correct language useage.  Recommended by Sir Winston Churchill when he saw sloppy writing from his staff-is there a better recommendation?

 

          But don't modern grammarians consider that the a/m. book might be a touch out-of-date by today's standards of correct grammar?  I fear lest that might be so.

 

       

[Tony Wright]

 

Just out of interest, I checked with Dave Ellis of SE Finecast this morning with regard to the reintroduced Sentinel.

 

He only has a picture of the original Nu-Cast one (B&W), so I've done him this one. 

 

It's certain that the moulds have been revisited and that the SEF one will be lighter. This is one of the last commissions John ordered before his death, so it looks like this is one of the revised ones. It was built, I believe, by someone in Darlington. 

 

I also checked with Dave as to the cost of the bits. With the power bogie, it's just over £140.00 for the kit. 

 

Since this one looks very well-made and painted (complete with full interior, curtains and passengers) I'm asking £300.00, which I think is fair. 

 

Also out of interest, I've given this a thorough test. In both directions, the little power bogie seems up to the task with ease. I added a couple of (light) plastic vans and it took those with equal ease.