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Freight Car Bodgeology


modelmaker87

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Hi Guys,

 

I hope the title tells all. This section of my section within the WFRM club room, a sub section of RMWeb, will concentrate on US freight cars. There is a chance that it will have a few items on British prototypes. But 99% will be US stuff. Looking back in the old RMWeb I see that I was virtually finished with that awful BLMA model. There was one more thing to add modelling wise. So here goes.

 

The NS G85R comes in a couple of variations. Those in the 25000 series with tub straps and those in the 39000 series without. It felt absolutely marvelous to carve off yet more material form the BLMA model and I've modified just one of my cars to the 39000 series so far. You may recall that I filed off the end tub strap, the prototype doesn't have any, and I fitted a brass end plate to the tub ends. The mod is a simple continuation of removing all of the remaining tub straps both sides a la the prototype and doing a number change. Lookee here:

 

post-6847-12620146384022_thumb.jpg

 

And my model of one similar but without conspicuity striping:

 

post-6847-12620146921528_thumb.jpg

 

That about wraps up this mini-clinic unless you guys have any questions.

 

Cheers, later, Tony

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Tony

 

Why have you left off the yellow bits and why is the number different to the picture?

 

Pete

 

Pete, love ya to death man. All questions are good....so, in the context of my discussion I was referring to the lack of tub straps on the 39xxx series of the G85R coal gon. The image I posted was merely to show a prototype example of the number series. My model is of the opposite side of NS39474 that the image below shows. The rubbed out graffiti is presenting a problem to me and I'm still grappling with how I'm gonna do it, any ideas, lets have 'em. This is the reason why the conspicuity stripes have not been applied to either side as I'll do that after I figure out how to do that washed out graffiti. These conspicuity stripes are applied more or less anytime as they go through the shop. Dirt is cleaned off and the stickers are stuck on, in this case after an attempt to remove the graffiti. So when I am satisfied that the weathering is as close as I can get it, I'll rub some of it off to stick the yellow conspicuity stickers on and do both them all, both sides, in one session. But I'm stuck right now with how to do it that wash out. :icon_frustrated: :icon_frustrated: The good thing is is that I can still run it on my friends layout looking like that as a car before it was tagged and the conspicuity stripes were added.

 

post-6847-12620456358546_thumb.jpg

 

Hope all this makes some sense to you. Thanks for dropping by and visiting my thread and I appreciate your question.

 

Later, Tony

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ok Tony it makes sense dont forget the ?® "registration mark" at the bottom right hand corner of the N.

 

Pete

 

Hi Pete, your eye is as keen as a hawks, nice work my man. :icon_clap: :icon_clap: I think Microscale decals has a line of these on one of their sheets, if not I'll make my own as I often do. Whatever is the most efficient.

 

You're up late.

 

Cheers, Tony

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Hello Tony,

 

I'll take your word about the lack of tub straps (what they?) on this wagon, but that doesn't detract from a lovely job.

 

Your graffiti... I've used a white crayon to do faded pre nationalisation letters on Uk freight stock. I wondered whether you could do that and then distress/spread it to show the staining where it's been washed off. Alternatively, crayon for the shape of the tags and then chalk/gouache for the overall white tinge? I suppose it depends on what finish you've used how well it might take and/or spread.

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The rubbed out graffiti is presenting a problem to me and I'm still grappling with how I'm gonna do it, any ideas, lets have 'em.

Tony, the Pentel roller ball pens that are available in white are water based so, personally, I'd use one of those to do the graffiti and then carefully use a moist cotton bud (or should that be Q-tip ;) ) or paint brush to smudge and remove as required. I did something similar here:

post-6668-12621090428052_thumb.jpg

 

Although I think I used a brush for that rather than the cotton bud.

HTH

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Hello Tony,

 

I'll take your word about the lack of tub straps (what they?) on this wagon, but that doesn't detract from a lovely job.

 

 

Hi Jonathan, is it OK to call you Jon...? It's easier on the finger tips. :P Check out the image.

 

post-6847-12621932195959_thumb.jpg

 

Cheers, Tony

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John offered: I've used a white crayon to do faded pre nationalisation letters on Uk freight stock. I wondered whether you could do that and then distress/spread it to show the staining where it's been washed off. Alternatively, crayon for the shape of the tags and then chalk/gouache for the overall white tinge? I suppose it depends on what finish you've used how well it might take and/or spread.

 

And

 

Pugsley suggested: Tony, the Pentel roller ball pens that are available in white are water based so, personally, I'd use one of those to do the graffiti and then carefully use a moist cotton bud (or should that be Q-tip ) or paint brush to smudge and remove as required. I did something similar here:

 

Guys, thank you both muchacha. Couple of good suggestions. I'm thinking about them.

 

John, the finish as the car stands now is Dullcoat, so I'm good to go as far as anything water based, gouache for example. Your idea of a crayon I tried, not on this actual car but on a test throw away car side. The crayon didn't spread or look as 'misty'...? as that wash out looks. It sort of needs some heavyish application then a means to accuately wash the area off without flooding the rest of the area above the general line of the wash out.

 

I like Pugsley's ideas too and to be honest I think I'll plump for that method first and see how I go with it.

 

Pugsley, I was sitting and watching Hummer Dave do some of his work up at Naperville last month. Was discussing with him the lettering streaks, particularly as they gradually appear on ex SOU and N&W freight cars and he suggested a white charcoal pencil, which I purchased. Couldn't get it done so I opted for stencil cream which I had great success with. Image attached to show the light lettering/number streaking that I was able to accomplish with this medium. I found I had a huge amount of control over it, and for that reason alone I usually favour mediums where time is on your side so that you can manipulate the pigments or remove them altogether to get the right look. One reason why I'm not in favour of gouache for such a large and required opaque finish, dries too fast.

 

2822_SOU901070_streaked.jpg

 

Jelly Roll pen. I'm almost sure that's the same pen type as what you are talking about under a different name. I have a few of these in rust and brown dirt colours. Not white though. But I will.

 

 

It should be Q-tip on this section of the forum. :icon_thumbsup2:

 

Thanks you two. I think what I'll do is mess with this and post my results on a test piece. Then we can all get into it that for what its worth and I might learn a bit more.

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No worries Tony, glad to be of assistance :). It seems strange talking with someone who's met HD in the flesh on a UK modelling forum! What's he like in person? Seems like a nice guy on the mtw forum. Maybe I'll get across to Naperville myself one year.

 

I like the effect you've got with that white charcoal pencil, it looks just right - I take it that it's different to a white crayon? I know what you mean about gouache, it does dry very quick, I keep meaning to get some of the water mixable oils that some of the mtw guys use and give them a try. They dry pretty fast for oils, but still give you plenty of working time, apparently. Have you ever tried them?

 

If it helps, the white pen I've got is by Pentel, and is a K108 Hybrid Roller.

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No worries Tony, glad to be of assistance :). It seems strange talking with someone who's met HD in the flesh on a UK modelling forum! What's he like in person? Seems like a nice guy on the mtw forum. Maybe I'll get across to Naperville myself one year.

 

I like the effect you've got with that white charcoal pencil, it looks just right - I take it that it's different to a white crayon? I know what you mean about gouache, it does dry very quick, I keep meaning to get some of the water mixable oils that some of the mtw guys use and give them a try. They dry pretty fast for oils, but still give you plenty of working time, apparently. Have you ever tried them?

 

If it helps, the white pen I've got is by Pentel, and is a K108 Hybrid Roller.

 

When I met HD I didn't know it was HD. That was one of the cool bits about our first meeting. I sat in front of his demo table and we clicked immediately. He's a good guy in my opinion, not that one can really tell. I mean, he might be the husband with the axe and 5 chopped up kids in the fridge along with his wife. As the interviewer talks to the neighbour next door for the TV sound bite, she sez. "He was a very nice man, went to church and everything".

 

He's got a beard and a is a hippy, a growing old hippy. Erudite and sure knows his stuff. I wouldn't like to get him pissed off and he's waiting down a dark alley for me one night.

 

As far as that white effect there Pugsley, if you mean the SOU car, either you didn't unerstand what I typed, or more like, I didn't explain myself properly. :icon_mutter: Let me be try again.

 

Ahem, cough & splutter. HD recommended the charcoal pencil - a white charcoal pencil. I purchased the exact same as he used in front of me, but I couldn't get on with it. So I used white stencil cream and that's what you see in the image of the SOU box car. Then your question "I take it's different from a white crayon". I can't tell you as I'm not sure. To me it was a plain old pencil, not even painted like the usual pencils are. The 'lead' was white and it looked just like one of those coloured pencil set pencils. I think the name of Charcoal White is a legacy perhaps from the companies first product maybe, charcoal pencils. Who knows, but that pencil writes white. The pen I use is a Micron, gorgeous pens and they go right down to a .005" (.12mm) tip. Superb for graffiti.

 

post-6847-12622073386138_thumb.jpg

 

post-6847-12622073814308_thumb.jpg

 

 

Later, Tony

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Tony,

 

Picking up a few bits from this thread = so the comments may be a bit out of sequence with how they relate - (just cant get this multiple quote feature to work)

 

OK - Start at the beginning - Fade out Graffitti...

 

I've been trying various methods to do this over the years.

 

Starting from White ink in Rotoring pens through Pentel pens and then on to micron pens (with a few other ideas in between.)

 

Even tried oil based pastels to get the overall shape then wiped out with turps on a cotton bud to produce the faded effect.

 

This method is good as there is a wide range of colours available.

 

Currently....

 

I like to do the outline with either the rotoring or Micron pen - then back fill up to the outline with a lot thinner ink or paint.

 

One of the good bits about the Rotoring pens is that you can use thinned paint as well as ink.

 

Another idea I had - but didn't end up using for graffitti, is liguid tippex correcting fluid and it's thinners.

 

Didn't work for the graffitti as it has too much texture, but having seen the texture effect, now use it for flaking paint and stucco effects.

 

Keep on with the freight Car Bodgeology please! I still have about 100 US cars to start on....

 

Thanks

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Hi Tony,

 

Picking up a few bits from this thread = so the comments may be a bit out of sequence with how they relate - (just cant get this multiple quote feature to work)

 

OK - Start at the beginning - Fade out Graffitti...

 

I've been trying various methods to do this over the years.

 

Starting from White ink in Rotoring pens through Pentel pens and then on to micron pens (with a few other ideas in between.)

 

Even tried oil based pastels to get the overall shape then wiped out with turps on a cotton bud to produce the faded effect.

 

This method is good as there is a wide range of colours available.

 

Currently....

 

I like to do the outline with either the rotoring or Micron pen - then back fill up to the outline with a lot thinner ink or paint.

 

One of the good bits about the Rotoring pens is that you can use thinned paint as well as ink.

 

Another idea I had - but didn't end up using for graffitti, is liguid tippex correcting fluid and it's thinners.

 

Didn't work for the graffitti as it has too much texture, but having seen the texture effect, now use it for flaking paint and stucco effects.

 

Keep on with the freight Car Bodgeology please! I still have about 100 US cars to start on....

 

Thanks

 

Hey Phil,

 

Good to see that you have visited my thread, welcome and please, please hang out here, you have a lot to offer and can only make this section richer, which I hope all the readers and contributors here would want. I have a whole box of Rotring pens from my old draughting days. Never thought of using them for weathering. What point (nib) size do you usually use and what is your experience with the minimum size. You use these also with paint and thinners, enamel, acrylic..what..?

 

Liquid Tippex, cool idea too, another I've never given any thought to. This product you use for written graffiti....right..?

 

If you didn't read my intro somewhere in these threads, I will be doing signals. Not yet but they have appeared on my list and the line item is steadily rising to the top.

 

Later, and go easy over New Years. I had some great times in Glasgow over New Years, first footing end everything, brilliant.

 

Later, Tony

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As far as that white effect there Pugsley, if you mean the SOU car, either you didn't unerstand what I typed, or more like, I didn't explain myself properly.

No, I think it was me being particularly dense - thanks for the further explanation, I get it now! :)

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Well, I consider myself educated regarding tub straps. I'll bear it in mind next time I'm in a teleconference with the Colonies. Thanks, Tony.

 

In my chosen era I'm glad I don't have the quandary of graffiti (hate to see it but if you're aiming for realism it has to be there) but the techniques are applicable to all manner of things. That streaking from the lettering is very effective. It's not something you see very often on british stock - a difference in the paints used, I imagine (or perhaps our lettering was just smaller so it's less apparent?).

 

I'd never heard of stencil cream - I'll keep an eye on for what and how you use it.

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Well, I consider myself educated regarding tub straps. I'll bear it in mind next time I'm in a teleconference with the Colonies. Thanks, Tony.

 

In my chosen era I'm glad I don't have the quandary of graffiti (hate to see it but if you're aiming for realism it has to be there) but the techniques are applicable to all manner of things. That streaking from the lettering is very effective. It's not something you see very often on british stock - a difference in the paints used, I imagine (or perhaps our lettering was just smaller so it's less apparent?).

 

I'd never heard of stencil cream - I'll keep an eye on for what and how you use it.

 

Hi Johnathan,

 

I think much of the streaking and all around weathering in the US is due to the different weather extremes, compared to that of the UK. Hours in the sun at temps during the Summer months in the low 40's celcius, crossing the desert in a sand storm, hail stones the size of golf balls. Most paint used, definitely on Norfolk Southern engines is manufactured by Ameron. Same stuff they paint the North Sea oil rigs with. I know that as my Mrs once worked for Ameron.

 

I'll try to do a little mini-clinic on streaking using stencil cream for you next time I'm doing one, which won't be far off.

 

Cheers, Tony

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Tony - be interesting to know just what "stencil cream" is, and if it is available in UK - not something I have seen here in Scotland

 

Hi Jack, good question. Stencil cream is similar to boot polish but less 'wet'. It uses in similar fashion and I apply it using a very very small brush.

 

post-6847-12633064208196_thumb.jpg

 

These come in packets of various sizes. These I show here, the white handled ones are the smallest available.

 

post-6847-12633064862317_thumb.jpg

 

The colours I have collected and used are shown in this pic.

 

post-6847-12633065268636_thumb.jpg

 

On opening the lid the stencil cream is covered with a hard skin. Here in this image you can see where I have stabbed the skin with a scalpel blade

and peeled is back to access the fresh cream. The destructions state "peel skin with a paper towel". if you do that then the skin is removed completely

and then another skin forms. Cutting and lifting with a blade so that you create a flap allows you to cover the penetration of the skin, and in a smaller

area, and thus the cream will last longer.

 

post-6847-12633066351048_thumb.jpg

 

This image for everyones info. I will do a mini clinic on how I use it on here sometime soon. I'll do a lettering/number white weathering streak similar to

my Southern box car I did somewhere above this message, which hopefully I can photograph close enough to show you how I apply it.

 

post-6847-12633066705611_thumb.jpg

 

Cheers, Tony

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold

Hey Phil,

 

Good to see that you have visited my thread, welcome and please, please hang out here, you have a lot to offer and can only make this section richer, which I hope all the readers and contributors here would want. I have a whole box of Rotring pens from my old draughting days. Never thought of using them for weathering. What point (nib) size do you usually use and what is your experience with the minimum size. You use these also with paint and thinners, enamel, acrylic..what..?

 

Liquid Tippex, cool idea too, another I've never given any thought to. This product you use for written graffiti....right..?

 

If you didn't read my intro somewhere in these threads, I will be doing signals. Not yet but they have appeared on my list and the line item is steadily rising to the top.

 

Later, and go easy over New Years. I had some great times in Glasgow over New Years, first footing end everything, brilliant.

 

Later, Tony

Hi Tony,

 

Bit late with the follow up but been busy!

 

Yep - it's that time of year when Glasgow is getting ever closer, ever faster!

 

Rotring Pens...

 

Use mainly thinned enamal paints - cleaning them out can be a pain if you don't remember straight away.

 

Looking at the nib sizes I have a range from 1mm down to .15mm in the box. The finer the nib - the more difficult it is to use. I think paint particle size is the main cause.

 

Depends on the scale I'm working on (yes - another one with many scales in the railway room!) at the time and what I'm trying to do.

 

Lining N gauge stock in the 70's and 80's was when I started using the rotring pens.

 

With good practice - and the right tools to support you - you can use the Rotring in the same way as the bow pen and I now prefer them to that bit of kit.

 

Once I get the ECC US tanks on the workbench and under way I'll stick some photos of the weathering/graffiti/patch paint jobs as I do them (somewhere).

 

Liquid Tippex is great when you can get the right thinners for it! I am lucky as I still have some very old thinners - the product changed for H&S reasons in the early 90's and the later thinners isn't as good for what I've been using it for.

 

Have to be quick with it though! It dries very fast.

 

But - you can rub it away to make it patchy as well and this also leaves a sort of chalky streak. The first time it happened to me was an accident - then I realised it looked like paint runs.

 

Coloured Tippex is something I've been using as well - mainly for buildings - use it to represent where for example, coloured stucco or render has started to come off the walls and accumulate on ledges.

 

With more care - and a thicker mix - it can be used to build up texture in this way. Anyone for pigeon droppings?

 

I also thin it to go through the rotring, but it can be a bit hit and miss when applying it - side effect is that it looks like graffitti the painter had to get finished in a hurry!

 

Anyway - enough for now! Just found out where the DEMU stand will be at Glasgow and need to have a rethink about how we set it out!

 

Thanks

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Thanks Phil for your reply, lot of good info there. Pigeon droppings, eh..!! I'm nodding here, I can see that Tippex would be perfect for a pile of Guano. :P

 

Please, please post your pix of your tank cars. I'm a tank car and coal car freak, first loves for sure. I had a difficult time deciding if my just started US layout was going to be oil related or coal related, I chose coal and this week will complete the final design of the track layout. I'll run a new topic thread here for it during the building of it all. A good deal of the baseboard sections are 100% complete and ready to have track laid down on it. Part of the staging yard is done. Its a project that has been smoldering away for the past 3 years, now it will become reality.

 

Glasgow, be nice to be there, but I'm not. The WFRM boys will be there in full LIverpudlian regalia.

 

Keep in touch, cheers, Tony

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Tony

 

It looks like some of wishes for parts have been granted buy BMLA they have some very nice things there and may save you some work.

 

Pete

 

Hey Pete, Yeah and no. If you model Western roads they have a couple of things that maybe of interest. I'm an Eastern road modeler. I did purchase a good number of their recent NS Topgons, and being kind, these models are wanting....Did you follow my thread on the old RMWeb covering this model and all the changes I did to make it look less toylike...?

 

Their signals are nice, but they need additional electrical items to make them work, so as delivered you can not test them, which I think is a bit iffy.

 

I have a couple of their etched drilling jigs for the front and rear hand grabs, good idea, but they are incredibly user unfriendly. Its close to impossible to hold the drilling jig in one position to drill all 10 or so holes in perfect alignment on both ends of the engine. So you try it, decide that its really a useless item, and bung it in a box and continue as always. Other than that, I keep myself updated visiting their site from time to time.

 

That's my experience with BLMA, not my favourite model supply company.

 

Thanks all the same, cheers, Tony

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well done Andy and your league of assistants for getting the 1's & 0's sorted into their correct order on the new hosts server.

 

Eons ago I was going through the detailed destruction and subsequent repair of the BLMA TopGon. Started that on the old RMWeb

and more or less completed it here, well almost, the weathering was still to be done. Yesterday I decided to remove the model from

its residence, the drying cupboard, after a period of some 6 or more weeks and finish it off.

 

Two images, the prototype I worked to and my completed model. I still think there is a little more to do with it as I am not entirely

happy with the contrast around the graffiti areas, particularly the outlines of the 'M' and the upturned 'A'.

 

Cheers, Tony

 

PW_NS39474.jpg

 

PW_NS39474_3226.jpg

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  • 5 months later...

Hi Guys,

 

Been awhile since I last posted in this area of chaos. I have been continuing building my Topgon fleet in fits and starts and have been getting somewhere

with the project. having 45 BLMA Topgons is all very fine and dandy but there's no way the prototype runs a whole train of G85R's. The prototype coal

trains are made up of the full mix of NS Topgon rebuilds. G89R's - G86R's - G101R's - G90R's and so it goes. I decided to see what I could do with the

BLMA G85R to bring it down in length to match a G89R. The prototype G89R is 16 inches shorter than the G85R and since I am a prototype modeler I

couldn't have the incorrect cars pretending they were something else just because I changed the numbers, they HAD to be right. So here continues the

story I started earlier both on the old RMWeb and here in the comfy new one.

 

The metamorphosis of a BLMA G85R into a G89R.

 

First a couple of comparison shots of the prototype. First image is a G85R, the second a G89R. Note the difference in the panel sizes of panels 4,5,7 & 8

all of which are larger than the center panel #6. The G89R panels at the same positions are all equal in width to the center panel.

 

4116_G85R_NS25200_1_300_D3.jpg

 

4102_NS27126_1_300_D3.jpg

 

And here's my starting point, outta da box BLMA G85R. After I make it into the G89R length I'm back to doing the brake gear detail as previously posted

here in this thread.

 

RMWeb_3349_G85R_starting_point.jpg

 

And the nice shiny new model cut in two. Complete with nice fresh finger marks as a starter for the eventual weathering. :P

 

RMWeb_3352_panel_separation.jpg

 

Cheers, Tony

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Hi Guys,

 

Continuing progress on this aspect of the project. All saw cuts made, surfaces cleaned up and prepped, glued together and the joins

filled where I felt it was needed. The joins that show on the inside will all but disappear when the inside of the hopper is spray painted

black

 

RMWeb_3365_top_view_filler.jpg

 

The original bars that go across the width of the tub underside are incorrect. BLMA molds them as solid bars and the prototype is in

fact channel sections. The image shows them removed with the rivets remaining.

 

RMWeb_3364_cavitiesfilled.jpg

 

Cheers, Tony

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