hmrspaul Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 SR CCT/PMV - BR CCT - LNER CCT (long)? - BR CCT - BR BG - ??GW?? - SR CCT/PMV - LMS GUV - BR GUV - 2 x SR CCT/PMV/ BY? - BR BG If that's a long LNER CCT, it's a Parkside beast, as said above in this thread. I can't suss the vehicle with recessed doors without reference to Paul Bartlett's site, The LMS GUV is another of the non-panelled diagram I think. Didn't Jamie do one of these a year or so ago? The pair of SR pattern vans at the rear look different to me, hence I think one may be a (Hornby) BY. Yes a long LNER 4 wh CCT I think the ??GW?? is an LMS fish van in stores livery - looks possibly dirty olive green http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsfish/e1d6f2cb2 Not sure about the final two 4 wheelers, the last appears to have SR profile, but the third from last doesn't - lower roof profile. Indeed I think one of the interesting feature of these different trains is how the profiles, both height and width vary so much. Paul Bartlett 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 7, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2013 The way to tell a Southern CCT (originally Covcar) from the visually very similar PMV (originally passenger luggage van) is the ends, of course. CCTs - Covered Carriage Truck - were designed with end doors to faciliate loading of carriages - as in horse and carriage. PMVs were not, so they have a large high central vent on the end, whereas the CCT has a total of four smaller vents per end, one above another on each of the pair of end doors. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) As a further aside, when did bogie CCT's start being called GUV's?, confuses the hell out of me cos I call the Lima model the former and everyone else seems to call it the latter, even though 4 wheel CCT's still are CCT's BR branded the standard ones GUVs from the beginning (I think) although you could argue that having end doors technically makes them CCTs. There's a note in Larkin's " BR General Parcels Rolling Stock" where he's discussing a batch of vans built on ex-GER underframes; he notes that one variant had van sides, solid non-gangwayed ends and were branded 'GUV' "... making them about the only correctly-named vehicles of that class". I suppose giving them two distinct designations saves confusion when telegraphing instructions around - you'd be a bit stuck if you had a long one's worth of cars to move and a short one turned up. Not sure about the final two 4 wheelers, the last appears to have SR profile, but the third from last doesn't - lower roof profile. Is it a Beetle or similar SCV-type vehicle ? Possibly a bit late for that though - Fruit D or something equally mundane ? I love parcels trains me, that pic of the ex-ambulance LMS BG is a peach ! Edited January 7, 2013 by stuartp 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) more? or should that be Moore 44674 Moore 1.8.67 by George of Dufton, on Flickr SR CCT/PMV - BR CCT - LNER CCT (long)? - BR CCT - BR BG - ??GW?? - SR CCT/PMV - LMS GUV - BR GUV - 2 x SR CCT/PMV/ BY? - BR BG If that's a long LNER CCT, it's a Parkside beast, as said above in this thread. I can't suss the vehicle with recessed doors without reference to Paul Bartlett's site, The LMS GUV is another of the non-panelled diagram I think. Didn't Jamie do one of these a year or so ago? The pair of SR pattern vans at the rear look different to me, hence I think one may be a (Hornby) BY. That sixth vehicle looks to me like one of the LMS 6-wheel Stores Vans (ex Fish) as painted in olive green. (Edit) Available as a kit from Chivers. Edited January 7, 2013 by Poor Old Bruce 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 To confuse things further, some bogie vans with end doors had been known as 'Scenery Vans' (this may even have been the designation used for the version of the BR GUV used for ferry traffic; taking ENSA to the BAOR?), and others as 'Aeroplane Vans). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I've recently taken down last year's 'Steam World' calendar. The centre spread photo is a parcels train on the Copy Pit line in 1964. It shows a Black Five (the caption says it's an 8F but it ain't!) hauling: SR CCT which may be dirty green LMS Stove R in dirty maroon SR Van C in dirt BR Mk1 BG in clean Blue and Grey BR GUV in maroon Possibly a Fruit D but difficult to identify due to drifting steam LMS 50ft BG in maroon SE Van C in dirt Unsure. Possibly a GWR BG in maroon BR GUV Most of these available RTR in 4mm Adding the makers in 4mm: SR CCT from Wrenn. SR Van C from Hornby. LMS Stove R from Hornby Magazine (with reservations about the underframe) or Comet Kit. BR BG and GUV from Bachmann. LMS BG from Bachmann or Hornby. Fruit D from Dapol. The next-to-last one I am unsure about could be substituted by another LMS 50ft BG. I am not fully au-fait with coaching stock kits so others may be available. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Is it a Beetle or similar SCV-type vehicle ? Possibly a bit late for that though - Fruit D or something equally mundane ? Quite possibly, certainly not too late, I photographed a couple of BR SCVs, and the SR style Horse boxes (as built by BR, one preserved at NRM) also survived later than this. I also did think of Fruit D, but it looks a bit "fussy". Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Quite possibly, certainly not too late, I photographed a couple of BR SCVs, and the SR style Horse boxes (as built by BR, one preserved at NRM) also survived later than this. I also did think of Fruit D, but it looks a bit "fussy". Paul Bartlett Might it be a Fruit C in 'ENPARTS' service? I've seen other photos of them in parcel trains, and the combination of two sets of doors, an X-bracing on the middle panel, coupled with the 'ENPARTS' label board, does make them look very 'fussy'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 the southern vans im glad you guys have answered some questions as they always confused me. expecially because of the Hornby bogie one, looking forward to the Bachmann pmv. few more nice shots.. 42546 Tebay North 4.6.66 by George of Dufton, on Flickr 70032 Tebay North 8.9.67 by George of Dufton, on Flickr 70045 Tebay North 8.9.67 by George of Dufton, on Flickr 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The SR BY in the last photo is fitted with a stove (hence the yellow door). I believe the yellow triangle indicates it is also fitted with a safe. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted January 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2013 There were a couple of GWR Beetles in the North West in the 60s. A friend of mine asked me if I could identify two vans in a parcels train passing through Preston behind a Duchess. I was surprised to instantly recognise what they were! Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The SR BY in the last photo is fitted with a stove (hence the yellow door). I believe the yellow triangle indicates it is also fitted with a safe. When I first read this I read it as Stove and CAFE............ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted January 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2013 1982 sets South West poss Plymouth S.2103 (SR ply sides) 86485 86302 86366 86935 86608 S.1856 94670 96174 86932 81288 86581 86485 86648 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted January 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2013 Plymouth 06/03/1982 80744 86422 86523 86867 86445 86135 86103 86236 86479 86226 86580 80512 80698 80955 86885 86110 80593 80602 81566 08,895 94257 S.1419 (ply) 86959 sat 24/04/1982 part pass part parcel 50,034 80995 25949 14053 5031 4965 80851 86982 86628 S.215 86844 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 nice class 25 hauled parcels shot.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5657357151/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 That's lovely. I don't think we need a vehicle-by-vehicle on it, but what I take away from that picture is the common use of 12T vans in these workings. Certainly far more than I assumed was the norm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2013 That's lovely. I don't think we need a vehicle-by-vehicle on it, but what I take away from that picture is the common use of 12T vans in these workings. Certainly far more than I assumed was the norm. A very LMR trait - for the simple reason that for years the LMR diagrammed more 'large' vans that it had vehicles to fill the diagrams. It also tended to be continually out of balance on Inter-Regional parvan balances for exactly the same reason. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 That's lovely. I don't think we need a vehicle-by-vehicle on it, but what I take away from that picture is the common use of 12T vans in these workings. Certainly far more than I assumed was the norm. Like the two that ended up in a Kent orchard near Rainham one night many many years ago - having departed the rear of a down parcels train without anybody noticing until the Farmer phoned the following day asking if anybody was coming to collect them............ 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Like the two that ended up in a Kent orchard near Rainham one night many many years ago - having departed the rear of a down parcels train without anybody noticing until the Farmer phoned the following day asking if anybody was coming to collect them............ I know there were two incidents which involved Fruit D vans where one parked itself at the side of the track and the other ended up in an orchard. In both cases the train had divided and the crews just coupled up again and carried on, the errant vans only being noticed in daylight. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2013 I think the train was the 0300 Vic - Ramsgate papers, so parts of Thanet may have been without news that morning! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I know there were two incidents which involved Fruit D vans where one parked itself at the side of the track and the other ended up in an orchard. In both cases the train had divided and the crews just coupled up again and carried on, the errant vans only being noticed in daylight. Ah!, I didn't know they were Fruit D's rather than vanfits - clearly this got lost in translation over the Courage Best 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) 26-01-62 D2xx at Durham by dubdee, on Flickr Edited January 10, 2013 by Michael Delamar 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 40024 Bradford FS 150481 by wwatfam, on Flickr 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 If ever proof was needed of the essential nature of the BR Standard CCT. PS: my two Sunday night special (qv) Lima LMS GUV (bogie CCT) have arrived during the week. Neither had any sign of prior use. Bogies aside (and matters are in hand to deal with these), I am reminded what beautifully crisp, delightful mouldings the silver box team treated us to in the Eighties. Thanks Lima! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Some great stuff to be found in the collection either side of this 6-wheel LNER E70689 seen in blue in 1976: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/6096935341/in/set-72157603653607671/ Edited January 13, 2013 by 'CHARD 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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