Jump to content
Image restoration from pre-May 2021 continues and may take an indefinite period of time.

Horwich Mallet 0-6-6-0


Recommended Posts

Hi Michael,

 

That really is an impressive beastie, beautifully engineered too. I would love to see if you or anyone see out there has ventured into the realm of locomotives that never were. I have seen the 'Hawksworth Pacific' and the 2-10-2 GWR heavy (seems a little bit of an understatement!) freight tank with the King(?) boiler. There is the fantastical notion I saw or read in a book once of a 28XX Garrett! Now, where's my razor saw?

 

All the best,

 

Castle

Link to post
Share on other sites

At the time (no date on my drawing but it was at least 35 years ago) I made measurements on the drawing in the book and used one of those new-fangled pocket calculators to get them to 4mm scale. Before that I had used a slide rule, I've still got it somewhere but forgotten how to use it. If I was doing it again now I would scan the drawing and import it into Turbocad as a picture on it's own layer. This can then be scaled, using a vertical and a horizontal dimension (reproductions of drawings rarely have the same scale in both planes - always check this) and rotated if necessary. Then I simply trace the drawing on screen, checking all dimensions as I go. This often involves quite a lot of design work, especially with a diagram like this, full GA or pipe and rod drawings are easier as they were usually drawn more accurately. All drawings are liable to differ from what was actually built  - some have pencil notes on them to indicate differences from what the drawing office thought.

To reassure Barry, 49801 is back in one piece and will be working at Preston next month.

From time to time I've looked at a lot of these "might have beens", many of them don't look very practical, a lot have more wheels added and an elongated boiler/smokebox. The mallet's boiler looks well proportioned to me although there may have been some problems with the ashpan. Two more in the same book look very attractive - a Stanier 2-8-4T based on the 8F and the 4-6-4 enlargement of the Duchess.

Michael Edge

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

So when's the kit being released Michael?  :locomotive:  :jester:

 

These outlandish "might-have-beens" weren't unknown abroad either.

 

You may remember Märklin bringing out a gigantic HO Br.53 in the 1970s, representing a wartime design which Borsig in Berlin had allegedly started to build. - a European 2-6-8-0 would have been an intriguing prospect though perhaps too big even for the German national network as it then was.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At the time (no date on my drawing but it was at least 35 years ago) I made measurements on the drawing in the book and used one of those new-fangled pocket calculators to get them to 4mm scale. Before that I had used a slide rule, I've still got it somewhere but forgotten how to use it. If I was doing it again now I would scan the drawing and import it into Turbocad as a picture on it's own layer. This can then be scaled, using a vertical and a horizontal dimension (reproductions of drawings rarely have the same scale in both planes - always check this) and rotated if necessary. Then I simply trace the drawing on screen, checking all dimensions as I go. This often involves quite a lot of design work, especially with a diagram like this, full GA or pipe and rod drawings are easier as they were usually drawn more accurately. All drawings are liable to differ from what was actually built  - some have pencil notes on them to indicate differences from what the drawing office thought.

To reassure Barry, 49801 is back in one piece and will be working at Preston next month.

From time to time I've looked at a lot of these "might have beens", many of them don't look very practical, a lot have more wheels added and an elongated boiler/smokebox. The mallet's boiler looks well proportioned to me although there may have been some problems with the ashpan. Two more in the same book look very attractive - a Stanier 2-8-4T based on the 8F and the 4-6-4 enlargement of the Duchess.

Michael Edge

 

Micheal, how would a modern articulated drive shaft work? I think I can imagine some kind of ball and socket arrangement to transfer the motor power.

Edited by scots region
Link to post
Share on other sites

Micheal, how would a modern articulated drive shaft work? I think I can imagine some kind of ball and socket arrangement to transfer the motor power.

I don't think the cardan shaft would be any different, I wouldn't use such a big motor now and the driving axles would have gearboxes. You can buy u/js from more than one supplier or they are quite easy to make from tube and 7mm handrail pillars. The main difference now would be that I would not build the drive units rigid, personally I would compensate them, others prefer springing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

...The mallet's boiler looks well proportioned to me although there may have been some problems with the ashpan. Two more in the same book look very attractive - a Stanier 2-8-4T based on the 8F ...

The ashpan and draughting is for sure in trouble on a grate of the size implied by the boiler design. Jiggling the wheelbase to allow a bit more ashpan space by having the rear chassis assymetric; moving the second driver forward slightly,  third driver back a little, a possible fix. Lack of a front pony truck would have meant severe limitation on speed; the US experience of the exciting snaking that was possible once speed got up to something like 20mph with this configuration saw them very rapidly use front trucks - and rear trucks -  to mitigate the instability.

 

Now the alternative version would be the same boiler on a  2-8-2 chassis. Just screen off the chassis from view and the topsides look very P1...

 

The Stanier 2-8-4T just 'builds itself'. The 26' loco chassis of the 8F substitutes for the 25'6 wheelbase of the 2-6 element of the Stanier 2-6-4T, with the foot less driving wheel diameter bringing the rear of the flange of the 4'8" wheel to the same position as that of the 5'8" wheel. I knew a guy who had one which operated on an exhiition layout, and he reckoned on getting one or two 'challenges' a day at most. The machine just looked so 'right' it passed for the genuine article in his opinion.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites


 

The ashpan and draughting is for sure in trouble on a grate of the size implied by the boiler design. Jiggling the wheelbase to allow a bit more ashpan space by having the rear chassis assymetric; moving the second driver forward slightly,  third driver back a little, a possible fix. Lack of a front pony truck would have meant severe limitation on speed; the US experience of the exciting snaking that was possible once speed got up to something like 20mph with this configuration saw them very rapidly use front trucks - and rear trucks -  to mitigate the instability.

 

Now the alternative version would be the same boiler on a  2-8-2 chassis. Just screen off the chassis from view and the topsides look very P1...

 

The Stanier 2-8-4T just 'builds itself'. The 26' loco chassis of the 8F substitutes for the 25'6 wheelbase of the 2-6 element of the Stanier 2-6-4T, with the foot less driving wheel diameter bringing the rear of the flange of the 4'8" wheel to the same position as that of the 5'8" wheel. I knew a guy who had one which operated on an exhiition layout, and he reckoned on getting one or two 'challenges' a day at most. The machine just looked so 'right' it passed for the genuine article in his opinion.

The Hughes (Horwich)  locomotive proposals listed in the following link did include a 2-8-2 , Garratt 2-6-6-2 , 4-6-2 as well as the Mallett as modelled by Mike.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67071-what-could-have-ended-the-midlands-small-engine-policy/?p=928196

Link to post
Share on other sites

The ashpan and draughting is for sure in trouble on a grate of the size implied by the boiler design. Jiggling the wheelbase to allow a bit more ashpan space by having the rear chassis assymetric; moving the second driver forward slightly,  third driver back a little, a possible fix. Lack of a front pony truck would have meant severe limitation on speed; the US experience of the exciting snaking that was possible once speed got up to something like 20mph with this configuration saw them very rapidly use front trucks - and rear trucks -  to mitigate the instability.

 

Now the alternative version would be the same boiler on a  2-8-2 chassis. Just screen off the chassis from view and the topsides look very P1...

 

The Stanier 2-8-4T just 'builds itself'. The 26' loco chassis of the 8F substitutes for the 25'6 wheelbase of the 2-6 element of the Stanier 2-6-4T, with the foot less driving wheel diameter bringing the rear of the flange of the 4'8" wheel to the same position as that of the 5'8" wheel. I knew a guy who had one which operated on an exhiition layout, and he reckoned on getting one or two 'challenges' a day at most. The machine just looked so 'right' it passed for the genuine article in his opinion.

It works allright in 4mm form and it can pull a house down - always handy to have when someone sneaks an extra full steel or loaded coal wagon into a train!

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The Stanier 2-8-4T just 'builds itself'. The 26' loco chassis of the 8F substitutes for the 25'6 wheelbase of the 2-6 element of the Stanier 2-6-4T, with the foot less driving wheel diameter bringing the rear of the flange of the 4'8" wheel to the same position as that of the 5'8" wheel. I knew a guy who had one which operated on an exhiition layout, and he reckoned on getting one or two 'challenges' a day at most. The machine just looked so 'right' it passed for the genuine article in his opinion.

 

It popped into my head last night that '8ATT' bears more than a passing resemblance to the proposal, I wonder...

Link to post
Share on other sites

49801 is great. In response to Castle, here's some more models of locos that never were:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/galmeadows1.html (scroll down for a GWR Pacific on this link)

http://www.gwr.org.uk/galfox1.html

http://www.gwr.org.uk/galfox2.html

http://www.gwr.org.uk/galparsons1.html

I do like some of these neverwozzers. Superb modelling by all concerned :good: , that Harwich mallet is a wonderfully eccentric beast. Can't help wondering if even Hornby could get the GWR 2-10-2T around radius 2 curves :no: . 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only just stumbled across this one.

 

Michael, that is one locomotive of phenomenal proportions that you have built up there. As has been said many times, 'If it looks right, it is right' and this is one of the best examples of that I have seen yet.

 

On to the GWR proposals, in MR140 (I think) there was a drawing of a King Garrett, which I roughed out on MS Paint out of the Hornby King a while back (King shown for comparison). Also, I remember seeing someone of this parish (S.A.C. Martin if I recall correctly), making the GWR Cathedral in BR Express Passenger Blue. A looker it certainly was!

post-14921-0-75362300-1360225654_thumb.png

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...