N gauge Class 50

[bluedepot]

hopefully someone will take on the class 50

 

if we can have a class 22 and 17 in n surely a class 50 is viable! I know prices gone up and pound down but still... if it was good the tooling could keep being used for a decade or more and special liveries produced etc. etc.

 

 

Tim

[justin1985]

Dapol probably over committed N gauge models while they had an active N gauge modeller in charge of product development, and now they have O gauge modellers in that role. Go figure ...

 

I get the impression that, especially with smaller 'virtual' manufacturers like Dapol (who outsource both design and manufacture) decisions are more personal than strictly commercial. Of the projects that could have been parked (cancelled), the class 50 probably had more potential for sustained sales over the long term.

 

Someone will make one sooner or later!

[steam-driven boy]

Hi,

Interesting feedback from Joel on the Dapol Digest today https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/diesel/class-50-n/project-managers-blog-al/309-n-gauge-class-50-development/page3

 

 

We are not promising, but we will be reviewing N gauge developments soon and this will be at the top of the discussion list. The main concern that we had with this project was the lack of pre-order interest from our stockists. When you have to prioritise resources and time, it naturally goes to products with greater demand and this was never at the top, or even near it. The tooling involved to cater for the variants, is also expensive, meaning break-even levels are scarily high. All this coupled with a squeeze on margins from Chinese inflation and currency devaluation was the main reason to put this on hold (not cancel) until the situation stabilises and improves. We do appreciate that there is a passionate following for this loco and that eventually, we may be able to deliver some good news and bring the considerable work already invited in this to fruition.

My Bold

 

I can understand a manufacturer in the recent and continuing financial uncertainties deferring items that they see from stockist interest may be poor sellers, I did pre-order when the opportunity presented itself but maybe the situation with other potential buyers is that they only want to wait for particular numbers/liveries at some future point?  How is a manufacturer going to be able to confidently commit the funds in that situation?  Why would any other N manufacturer have confidence seeing this and probably facing the same conundrum?

Surely the WCML/WR/NSE (not an insignificant portion of the rail network) modellers for the period when these operated need a modern standards, conventionally priced, model.  There seems to have been plenty of interest in the preserved examples on railtours and open days - my Model Rail September '17 issue delivered today suggests five expected at the Old Oak Common 111 event on September 2nd.

 

Regards, Gerry.

[Bomag]

Hi,

Interesting feedback from Joel on the Dapol Digest today https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/diesel/class-50-n/project-managers-blog-al/309-n-gauge-class-50-development/page3

 

My Bold

 

I can understand a manufacturer in the recent and continuing financial uncertainties deferring items that they see from stockist interest may be poor sellers, I did pre-order when the opportunity presented itself but maybe the situation with other potential buyers is that they only want to wait for particular numbers/liveries at some future point?  How is a manufacturer going to be able to confidently commit the funds in that situation?  Why would any other N manufacturer have confidence seeing this and probably facing the same conundrum?

Surely the WCML/WR/NSE (not an insignificant portion of the rail network) modellers for the period when these operated need a modern standards, conventionally priced, model.  There seems to have been plenty of interest in the preserved examples on railtours and open days - my Model Rail September '17 issue delivered today suggests five expected at the Old Oak Common 111 event on September 2nd.

 

Regards, Gerry.

 

I have to say that the initial list of model/livery choices did not scream out as particularly needing any pre-orders. There was none, like 66705 in the first batch of Dapol 66's, where you could think that it would both be particular fast seller and where you would want specifically that model.  I would have got a LL and original NSE if they had not sold out, but even if they had I would have been happy with any other 50 in those liveries. Also with Dapol I am increasingly less likely to preorder anything through my local stockist in case the model (or livery) turns out to be a dud. For other manufacturers (e.g farish) there is a greater expectation that there won't be problems.

[TomE]

Hi,

Interesting feedback from Joel on the Dapol Digest today https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/diesel/class-50-n/project-managers-blog-al/309-n-gauge-class-50-development/page3

 

My Bold

 

I can understand a manufacturer in the recent and continuing financial uncertainties deferring items that they see from stockist interest may be poor sellers, I did pre-order when the opportunity presented itself but maybe the situation with other potential buyers is that they only want to wait for particular numbers/liveries at some future point?  How is a manufacturer going to be able to confidently commit the funds in that situation?  Why would any other N manufacturer have confidence seeing this and probably facing the same conundrum?

Surely the WCML/WR/NSE (not an insignificant portion of the rail network) modellers for the period when these operated need a modern standards, conventionally priced, model.  There seems to have been plenty of interest in the preserved examples on railtours and open days - my Model Rail September '17 issue delivered today suggests five expected at the Old Oak Common 111 event on September 2nd.

 

Regards, Gerry.

 

Interesting comment indeed. I wonder if the lack of orders from retailers could be a result of shops not wanting to take flak for the increasingly common price increases during the extremely long gestation periods some models go through, especially if their own pre-orders are not high in volume. 

 

How many retailers now hold off placing their orders until such time they believe there are unlikely to be any further rises, and they don't feel obliged to absorb some of that increase to avoid p!ssing off their customers too much? 

 

I notice that the N Gauge Class 68 has jumped in price by around £20 in the last few weeks, which shows these price rises are still occurring.

 

Tom. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by TomE

[Davexoc]

Interesting comment indeed. I wonder if the lack of orders from retailers could be a result of shops not wanting to take flak for the increasingly common price increases during the extremely long gestation periods some models go through, especially if their own pre-orders are not high in volume. 

 

How many retailers now hold off placing their orders until such time they believe there are unlikely to be any further rises, and they don't feel obliged to absorb some of that increase to avoid p!ssing off their customers too much? 

 

I notice that the N Gauge Class 68 has jumped in price by around £20 in the last few weeks, which shows these price rises are still occurring.

 

Tom. 

The way I see it is that too much was announced too early. That led to over long gestational periods, and cancellations. Why would shops want to order stock that could be several years away?

Dapol were not asking for crowdfunding last time I looked, so why should a lack of pre-orders mean that there is no demand? More people might come forward if there was something physical to examine in the form of a 3D print though.

 

With regards to prices, as the Pound heads south against the Dollar and Euro again, there is not likely to be any good news on that fromt for a while.

 

Dave

[MGR Hooper!]

The way I see it is that too much was announced too early. That led to over long gestational periods, and cancellations. Why would shops want to order stock that could be several years away?

Dapol were not asking for crowdfunding last time I looked, so why should a lack of pre-orders mean that there is no demand? More people might come forward if there was something physical to examine in the form of a 3D print though.

 

With regards to prices, as the Pound heads south against the Dollar and Euro again, there is not likely to be any good news on that fromt for a while.

 

Dave

And we could see that habit of announcing way too much carry on in that other brand with the same connection. Lessons are sometimes never learnt.

[fezza]

Announcing ambitious plans is partly about scaring off rival manufacturers and avoiding duplication. But it is frustrating.

 

Personally I don't mind the prices if they are reliable and don't split gears every five minutes. But they aren't.

 

I will pay a premium price for a premium product - but not for mediocrity.

[justin1985]

Funnily enough I quite regularly pre-order Farish items when there is a particular livery I really want, but I think the only time I've ever pre-ordered Dapol, that livery was cancelled. Only to appear a few months afterwards anyway (class 156 in Central Trains "Express" version of Regional Railways).

 

I didn't pre-order a 50, but I would certainly have bought one if it turned out to be a good model. That's kind of the rub though - my approach with Dapol has become very much "wait and see". (Both whether it actually appears, and whether it's any good or not)

 

Justin

[steam-driven boy]

Hi,

According to acko22 (PROJECT RAILWAY HONOUR) posted (#238) by Gareth on the N Gauge Forum http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36933.msg467222;topicseen#msg467222 :

NEWS FROM CHIRK Dapol ARE RESTARING ON THE 50s

Due out Q3 2018 liveries and numbers to be decided - Only one confirmed 50007 Sir Edward Elgar as a club special in GWR colours

We'll have to await website updates, but rather exciting news.

 

Regards, Gerry. 

[bluedepot]

hurrah!!!

 

probably this was all just a stunt to get more interest...!!

[woodenhead]

As long as this time round enough people order them, Dapol must have been concerned about numbers to pull it first time round.

[Kris]

Hi,

According to acko22 (PROJECT RAILWAY HONOUR) posted (#238) by Gareth on the N Gauge Forum http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36933.msg467222;topicseen#msg467222 :

We'll have to await website updates, but rather exciting news.

 

Regards, Gerry. 

 

 

Given Dapol's record on delivery, I will only believe this when I see it. 

[Stu from EGDL]

Hi Gang,

 

Thanks to Gareth for the update.....it does seem logical for Dapol to progress the 50 ahead of the 59...with the liveries, longevity and geographical area being marginally more. Also, sensible to progress the passenger loco ahead of the freight loco...perhaps!!

 

Dapol now have nailed their colours to the mast with mechanical spec...and I hope to see the difficult face of the 50 given due care and captured well. This will make or break it as a model.

 

Good luck to Dapol with the Class 50 as there are a lot of people waiting on this one...

 

Later,

Stu from EGDL.

[Robert Shrives]

Hi Good to hear and read about the 50 back on line. Much work done and still much to do but as Stu says model has a lot to offer and the shelved production time has allowed more backroom spec on PCB so wait worth it. 

Good for the support expressed so far on here and N forum.

 

Just to add a bit OT the Dapol collectors club meet today was great fun and busy.

 

Robert 

[Les1952]

A couple of extras to add to this - I can't remember all of what Andy said at the Open Day today and I'm sure if I've misremembered anything someone will correct me..

 

The comment was that changed conditions made it a suitable time to restart the Class 50.

 

However, ALL of those in the "in abeyance" list have been worked on to improve their spec so that when the "go" button is pressed they are more ready to go.

 

The Class 50 will now have an updated mechanism (no details) except that it is a new circuitboard with a Next-18 socket, which will be fitted to all new locos and reissues, starting the latter with the bubblecars.  DCC fitted examples will have Dapol's new "Imperium" high spec lowish cost chip.

 

No details on the identities of the Class 50s (not yet decided according to Andy) except that the next Dapol Collector's Club exclusive model is SIR EDWARD ELGAR in GWR Green.

 

Delivery expected Quarter 3 2018.

 

Les

[John M Upton]

At least it means I should get a years worth of use out of my old Farish tart up example currently on my workbench.  Better hurry, finish it and then flog it while it still worth something....

[Crepello]

That really is good news about the 50. I'd be interested to know what the changed conditions are though. Maybe Brexit is being abandoned? (dreaming).

[John M Upton]

I think Brexit is still happening, its just being dragged out to the point of tedium and being steadily watered down to the point of irrelevance!

[cornish trains jez]

I think people are sick and tired of waiting for brexit and have just decided to carry on with their lives regardless.

Edited October 1, 2017 by cornish trains jez

[MGR Hooper!]

We're please to say that as part of our continuous review of N gauge products, the Class 50 project is now proceeding.

During the holding period, we have completely re-engineered the model and it will now contain our new benchmark electronics and mechanicals. This means the model will be produced to the same standard as the class 68.

Next-18 decoder

DCC Sound ready

Full lighting control (Independent front/rear lamps, cab lights etc.) for both DC & DCC users.

New whisper quiet motor and chassis

We are currently aiming for production late Q3 2018.

[cornish trains jez]

 

We're please to say that as part of our continuous review of N gauge products, the Class 50 project is now proceeding.

During the holding period, we have completely re-engineered the model and it will now contain our new benchmark electronics and mechanicals. This means the model will be produced to the same standard as the class 68.

Next-18 decoder

DCC Sound ready

Full lighting control (Independent front/rear lamps, cab lights etc.) for both DC & DCC users.

New whisper quiet motor and chassis

We are currently aiming for production late Q3 2018.

 

 

If they go into production late 2018 I cannot see them being released till early 2019. Good news on the technical side though.

[woodenhead]

And that is based on now, what manufacturer has delivered anything within timescale recently.

 

I reckon mid 2019 for delivery.

[cornish trains jez]

And that is based on now, what manufacturer has delivered anything within timescale recently.

 

 

 

Revolution Trains did really well on delivery times with the TEA's.

[Revolution Ben]

Revolution Trains did really well on delivery times with the TEA's.

Hi Jez,

 

That is very kind, but to be fair the Pendolino has taken longer than we'd have liked (very close now though!) though the Class B tanker is almost ready to go into production and if the models arrive before February the whole project will have taken just a year.

 

Back to the OP and I am delighted Dapol have picked up the Class 50 again - I think they'll make a great job if the 68 is anything to go by.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Ben A