Garethp8873 Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Thank you for the reply Noel. My CORAL A however is a scratchbuilt one I purchased from ebay a few years ago. Very pleased with it. Garethp8873 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Hi All, I have managed to get to the transfer stage with my CORAL A in early BR guise but before the weathering kit comes out, is it likely to have had the legend CORAL A still emblazoned on the side of it in the middle on a black patch? The real thing has had a plate riveted over this area so any evidence is beneath it and is a little inaccessible as a result... I rather liked the NOT COMMON USER thing on the GWR version so I did a similar one in BR style in the same place as the old livery (below the spring, inboard of the axle box on the right hand side as you look at the wagon) but having thought about it, is this likely to be wrong too? There are black patches just visible on the real thing where the number and other information must have been above the springs at each end so I have gone for that as a plan. Thanks in advance! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Was 'Coral' still a legitimate wagon/telegraph code in BR days? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 'NON COMMON USER' rather lost its meaning under BR, with all the rolling stock under one owner (apart from the remaining private owners, which were labelled 'NON POOL' - eg salt wagons). I think CORAL also disappeared under BR (GLASS?), but I have to check on that one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Thanks for he input David & Miss P, I have transfers for BR wagons that say 'Not in common use' which I assume must have been for very specialist wagons like the CORAL but whether it WAS on then I wouldn't like to say! I think You might be right that the code disappeared under BR especially in the light of Jon's information in post No. 11 Thanks for checking your books for me David by the way. Any more thoughts before the matt varnish and weathering goes on please?! All the best, Castle Edited May 30, 2013 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) Having checked (usual sources), the BR code was GLASWAG (GLASS was an LNER code). (CORAL is given as "- BR"). IIRC, NOT IN COMMON USE was used on brake vans (Esp. BR(W)) used for specific routes - R.U. (Restricted Use) was also used. It possibly appeared on other wagons, but I can't remember ever seeing it (It was a long time ago!). Edited May 31, 2013 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Hi David, Thanks for that - so if I do a black panel with GLASWAG written on it I won't be far wrong and it looks like I might have to take the restricted use notes off though. Oh well, never mind, win some, loose some! Thanks again. All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Having checked (usual sources), the BR code was GLASWAG (GLASS was an LNER code). (CORAL is given as "- BR"). IIRC, NOT IN COMMON USE was used on brake vans (Esp. BR(W)) used for specific routes - R.U. (Restricted Use) was also used. It possibly appeared on other wagons, but I can't remember ever seeing it (It was a long time ago!). What it may have carried in BR days was lettering along the lines of ' Empty to **********', which many Specials carried. In this case, it may have been 'St Helens' or 'Pilkington Brothers, St Helens'. I am trying to recollect if there were any other manufacturers of Plate glass. Sadly, the normally comprehensive Jim Russell tome on 'Freight Wagons and Loads in Service on the Great Western and British Rail, Western Region' doesn't have a photograph in either BR or GWR days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) Hi Brian, That's a good point, I wonder whether there were any other manufacturers on the GWR system? Thanks very much! All the best, Castle EDIT: I have trawled my stock of transfers and found that the closest thing I have to Brian's suggestion is 'RETURN EMPTY TO WESTERN REGION'. Do we think that will do? Edited May 31, 2013 by Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Hi All, I have managed to get to the transfer stage with my CORAL A in early BR guise but before the weathering kit comes out, is it likely to have had the legend CORAL A still emblazoned on the side of it in the middle on a black patch? The real thing has had a plate riveted over this area so any evidence is beneath it and is a little inaccessible as a result... I rather liked the NOT COMMON USER thing on the GWR version so I did a similar one in BR style in the same place as the old livery (below the spring, inboard of the axle box on the right hand side as you look at the wagon) but having thought about it, is this likely to be wrong too? There are black patches just visible on the real thing where the number and other information must have been above the springs at each end so I have gone for that as a plan. Thanks in advance! All the best, Castle The GLASS MC had little lettering on them, let me have your email address and I'll send the couple of photos I have of them - not my copyright but Don Rowland and Eric Gent. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Hi Paul, Thanks for your help here - much appreciated! I will sort a PM for you. All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Hi David, Thanks for that - so if I do a black panel with GLASWAG written on it I won't be far wrong and it looks like I might have to take the restricted use notes off though. Oh well, never mind, win some, loose some! Thanks again. All the best, Castle To complicate matters, I'm not sure that the telegraph code would be carried on the wagon. (Sorry I intended to add this observation to my original post and forgot.) Without a photo of a CORAL in BR livery, we can't be sure. (The BR code for bogie bolsters was BOBOL, but it was written in full on the wagons, for example) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 Cheers David, I will have a look at the picture that Paul has and I will report back! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 To complicate matters, I'm not sure that the telegraph code would be carried on the wagon. (Sorry I intended to add this observation to my original post and forgot.) Without a photo of a CORAL in BR livery, we can't be sure. (The BR code for bogie bolsters was BOBOL, but it was written in full on the wagons, for example) The BR ones were GLASS MC and GLASS WC. - Specially constructed wagon brandings in the BR period included the owning region as the first letter of the code (Scottish Region was A, ER and NER were not seperated - used E) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) Hi All, The photos that Paul has very kindly shown me are of two glass wagons numbered in the 902XXX series. These must be part of the Dia. 170 vehicles mentioned in Jon's post No. 11. They are Nos. 902000 & 902003 and are both branded as per Paul's notation above with GLASS MC in small lettering in the centre, about 6" below the top of the side frames. They both have 12T and then the number on the left hand side above the spring and the wheelbase above the right spring they have the wheelbase dimension. Pretty much as I have my wagon. Sadly nothing about users (common or otherwise!), but we knew that was on the way out anyhow. The livery in the photo of No. 902000 is a bit indistinct but it seems that No. 902003 is painted wagon grey all over except the side frames which appear black. This does not seem to have been the case with the remaining paint evidence on No. 41723 at 81E as this seems to have had the all over wagon grey and black patches with white text on top. Under that is the remains of the GWR freight grey and that's it. The plan for little No. 41723 is therefore BR unfitted freight wagon grey with numbers & data as above on black panels and then a small GLASS WC text on a black panel in the middle. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread about CORALS, I hope it is of use for others and lets see lots more questions and answers about weird and wonderful GWR freight vehicles posted here! I will keep the tags updated as more wagon types are added. And yes, I am aware that I have to write WC on the side of my wagon and how potentially funny that is. No sniggering at the back you lot! All the best, Castle Edited June 2, 2013 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 It's great to see alot of interest in GWR 41723 I must say. Hopefully with the interest that has been sparked up surrounding this unique wagon then maybe something can done to get it back to working order? I keep asking the 813 Fund about what is to happen with 41723 and all come down to funds or private work in the end. It just seems such a shame that something unique as this has been left to become the state it is in now. I think Didcot has been very lucky when moving this wagon about the site up until now but I don't wish to bring on any bad fortune with the poor wagon. I have posted a question up on their facebook group and I will see what they have to say on it. Will let you know how that goes. If anything surely a new wagon kit or a 3D printed wagon of the CORAL A may just bring further interest to bring out the restoration of 41723. Not trying to go off the CORAL A, but I did get another "GWR Wagon Oddity" today from the well known ebay. A GWR Tool Van based on the CC1 Diagram. Very attractive I'll say and with some possibly imagination maybe? Pics included below. ATB, Garethp8873/ 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 There's a lot going on on the roof there! Are those skylights and what I presume are ventilators true of diagram CC1? Tool vans are an interesting subject. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Were Glass WC intended to carry frosted glass? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 There's a lot going on on the roof there! Are those skylights and what I presume are ventilators true of diagram CC1? Tool vans are an interesting subject. Hey Ozexpatriate, Having looked in the book "All About Iron Minks" and "GWR Wagons Before 1948 Vol.2", the modeller seems to have done a very good job in representing the original GWR 15000 (with probably some slight imagination included). They only have photos of the van during it's BR times though (which always seems to be the way with some of the oddities). The skylights can be seen in the photos in the books but I am not sure the same can be said on the ventilators. The wagon as you can guess has been built from a Ratio GWR Iron Mink kit. Although in reality Iron Minks were 16ft and these Tool Vans were 18ft, I can easily get past this with the model form. Garethp8873. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 That looks rather good, Gareth. I suspect the Mink conversion works because CC1/2 were both longer and taller than iron minks, so the proportions are roughly maintained. The difference would probably be noticeable if you parked it next to a V6. The 'ventilators' are oil lamp tops and, with the skylights, are indeed correct for the prototype. Atkins et al. (1986 ed.) have a photo of the almost identical CC2 built for use by Pooley & Sons, the weighbridge contractors in it's original 1899 livery. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2013 There's a lot going on on the roof there! Are those skylights and what I presume are ventilators true of diagram CC1? Tool vans are an interesting subject. The skylights definitely look too tall and the angle of them is wrong compared with what I can remember of the real vehicles of that ilk while the lamp tops also look too large and high - unless my memory is failing even more than I sometimes think it might be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Nothing wrong with your memory, Mike. The ridge of the skylights should, I think, be about 7" above the highest point of the roof. I recognise those lamp top castings, I've a packet of them somewhere. They even look rather large on the coaches for which they were intended. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 It is still a good representation of that it is meant to be. It just has so much charm about it that you don't think about the errors with it in my opinion. I am going to be putting together a ballast train as I have got three ballast wagons and this wagon now. Would this wagon count as a brake van or would I need a Toad or Ballast Brake? Were GWR Loriots used in ballast trains aswell? Also I was wondering whether the current OO Flangeways Mermaids would be suitable for a GWR transformation at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2013 It is still a good representation of that it is meant to be. It just has so much charm about it that you don't think about the errors with it in my opinion. I am going to be putting together a ballast train as I have got three ballast wagons and this wagon now. Would this wagon count as a brake van or would I need a Toad or Ballast Brake? Were GWR Loriots used in ballast trains aswell? Also I was wondering whether the current OO Flangeways Mermaids would be suitable for a GWR transformation at all? Yes - not a bad representation and instantly recognisable. However I would think it unlikely to be found in a ballast train, most likely an 'ordinary' freight when being transferred from place to place as it was an S&T vehicle and not a Civil Engineer's one. I don't know about earlier years but certainly by the early '60s the various S&T vehicles seemed to be moved about together from job to job although the painters' vehicles always seemed to stay together and might well have been moved as a short train as they included bogie coaching stock. And no, it isn't a brake van so it would have to be in a train which has a brakevan. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 DW15000 late in life here http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrdeptcoach/e1e3f67f Photos of a CC2 start here http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrdeptcoach/e2760b78 Loriots worked with ballast trains, as they were used for carrying dozers which were used for levelling ballast etc. in some formations. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrloriotlowmac/e9a615e2 Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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