GWR concrete pot sleepers.

[br2975]

I've no doubt this question has been raised before - but I couldn't find it, or a reply on the site.

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Can anyone give me the dimensions of the GWR concrete pot sleepers or point me toward any sketches somewhere ?

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I know that generally there were either 16 or 17 per 45' rail length, but little else.

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I intend to have at least one of my exchange sidings laid in this type of p.w. when tracklaying commences.

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Thanks in advance folks.

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Brian R

[TheSignalEngineer]

Some discussion here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39452-block-and-beam-track/&do=findComment&comment=421665 but I don't think there were any dimensions given.

[Trog]

 

 

1905 vintage GW&GC Joint railway pot sleeper.

 

Chairs for 97.5lb 00 bullhead rail.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Trog

[unravelled]

This shows one fairly square on. It might be possible to scale from the bolt spacing.

 

 

This stack is near the broad gauge line at Didcot.

 

Dave

[The Stationmaster]

 

 

1905 vintage GW&GC Joint railway pot sleeper.

 

Chairs for 97.5lb 00 bullhead rail.

Or is it a matter of old GW&GC Jt chairs being re-used with much later pot sleepers?

[micknich2003]

Some years ago, there was published a book on GW Trackwork, I'm sure it will tell you all you need to know. I have it here but can't find it, nor do I recall the exact title or author. I'm sure Martin Wynne will know.

[Adam]

All the details I have are contained in this post: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39452-block-and-beam-track/?p=422057

 

For what it's worth, I made mine from 60 thou' plastic sheet - 6mm x 4mm (this was in EM) which, if I remember rightly, is near enough. Quite what I will do with my 135' siding's worth of the stuff is a question for another time...

 

Adam

Edited December 30, 2013 by Adam

[buffalo]

Some years ago, there was published a book on GW Trackwork, I'm sure it will tell you all you need to know. I have it here but can't find it, nor do I recall the exact title or author. I'm sure Martin Wynne will know.

Are you thinking of David J Smith, GWR Switch and Crossing Practice: A design guide for 4mm modellers, published by Great Western Study Group in 2000? A very useful book, but I don't think it has anything about concrete.

 

Nick

[Adam]

Are you thinking of David J Smith, GWR Switch and Crossing Practice: A design guide for 4mm modellers, published by Great Western Study Group in 2000? A very useful book, but I don't think it has anything about concrete.

 

Nick

That's the book (it's referred to in the post I linked to in the earlier topic) and I'm reasonably certain that it has a simple diagram showing the spacing. There may be a drawing of a pot too but I possibly saw that somewhere else. A single page only.

 

Adam

[buffalo]

That's the book (it's referred to in the post I linked to in the earlier topic) and I'm reasonably certain that it has a simple diagram showing the spacing. There may be a drawing of a pot too but I possibly saw that somewhere else. A single page only.

I can't find a drawing, but on p83 there is a brief section that mentions the concrete pots being developed at the Taunton concrete works during WW2. However, I've not yet found anything about spacing.

The standard pots were 2'-0¹/₂" x 1'-6¹/₂" x 5¹/₂" and were laid in pairs, one under each rail, tied at intervals by 2¹/₂" x 2¹/₂" x ³/₈" steel angles. In an endeavour to conserve crossing timber, concrete pots were tried experimentally in siding leads, for that portion comprising the lead closure rails between the switches and the crossing. For this purpose a narrower, 1'-0" width, pot was produced which alternated with the standard design. The standard pots were tied with steel angles and the smaller pots were left free. The results of the trials were not sufficiently convincing to warrant their continuation, and the use of concrete pots in this way did not become widespread.

Nick

Edited July 5, 2013 by buffalo

[Trog]

Or is it a matter of old GW&GC Jt chairs being re-used with much later pot sleepers?

 

Its possible but all the chairs on that length were the same.

[The Stationmaster]

Its possible but all the chairs on that length were the same.

I do wonder if there happened to be a surplus of those chairs as they used to be seen in sidings allover the place on the London Division back in the '60s - on timber sleepers as well (and not necessarily at both ends!).

[TheSignalEngineer]

Or is it a matter of old GW&GC Jt chairs being re-used with much later pot sleepers?

Those chairs turned up in sidings at a few places on the ex-GW lines south of Birmingham. I remember photographing some about 30 years ago but can't put my hand on the prints at the moment.

[LNERGE]

I can supply drawings for a few LNER types.

[br2975]

Thank you all.

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I have a diagram outlining spacings, from an old MRJ.

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But the dimesions of the 'pots' had eluded me.

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Once again, thank all you for your assistance.

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Brian R.

[nosferatu]

Thank you Brian R for asking this question and for the replies.

 

Could you kindly quote those spacings from the diagram, which I do not have?

 

Or will the stated 16 or 17 pairs of pots per 45ft (also kindly mentioned) be adequate in small scale?

 

I am faced with needing to model some lengths of this track in 2mm scale in order to depict a former GWR goods yard prototype.

 

Richard.

[nosferatu]

To answer my own question, 16 into 45ft. gives 33 1/2ins, which will look right when compared with the Aberystwyth pictures. In 2mm scale 5.5mm spacing will be easy to apply. The fun will be in fashioning the pots out of styrene strip and cutting the slot for the tie bar. Also in mounting the chairs (obtainable as tiny mouldings from the 2mm Association. It will be worth making a couple of jigs, no doubt. The tie bars may be the easiest part - short lengths of code 40 rail can buried in the ash ballast, so that the 0.5mm wide rail head (or foot) is all that appears. Yes, a bit overscale, but easy and available.

 

Probably the spacing of pots was closed up each side of rail joints. Likely this refinement will get forgotten. I hope not.

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

Richard.

[uax6]

Might it be worth getting a cutting machine to cut your pots? See the silhouette Cameo thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79025-a-guide-to-using-the-silhouette-cameo-cutter/

 

Andy g

[nosferatu]

Might it be worth getting a cutting machine to cut your pots? See the silhouette Cameo thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79025-a-guide-to-using-the-silhouette-cameo-cutter/

 

Andy g

 

Thank you for this idea and link. There would be problems of cost and accommodation with such a device, and in keeping it busy in future. Maybe, though,  I know somebody who has one. It is regularly employed cutting signage vinyls for a living, so it would not be polite to compromise its cutters with thickish hard sheet. If it could cut off the little corners of each pot then that would be pleasant.  Also the half-millimetre slot for the tied pots.

 

In the meantime I could try cutting some strip, bevelling that, and the end corners of each plate prior to separating. Handling 4mm by 3mm pieces of plastic may or not be practical, and the placing of tiny chairs.

 

Another option would be run the yard in its 1930s form, before the pots came - they look new in the pictures taken in 1947.

 

Richard.

[Gordon A]

I am surprised that no one, that I am aware of, has had some pots cast in resin or whitemetal designed to take plastic C&L / P4 Track comp chairs.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

Edited January 2, 2014 by Gordon A

[br2975]

Earlier today, my grandsons found this for me, half submerged in the River Ely near Cardiff.

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I was unaware that 'pots' were made with a recess to accomodate the gauging bar.

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Brian R

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EDIT-> It appears that this, and similar "sleepers" had been used to support the river banks close to a replacement bridge over the river.

Edited September 29, 2014 by br2975

[2251]

With apologies for reviving an old thread, there is a good deal of information about the development of these "pot" sleepers in the "History of the Great Western Railway", vol 3, pp 203-205.

 

This includes a drawing of the original (type A) and revised (type B) variants. The dimensions of both were 1'6.5" x 2'0.5" x 5.25".

[Stephen Freeman]

Modelu of course!