Prototype for everything corner.

[SHMD]

Re T653

 

...back in the day when the railways still could adapt and improvise with its' resources.

 

 

Kev

[DavidB-AU]

9 hours ago, melmerby said:

The UK Pullman Car Co was Nationalised in 1954

However it was a separately staffed and operated entity until 1962 when it became a fully integrated part of BR.

 

Although the rollingstock was taken over by BR, the Pullman staff technically worked for British Transport Hotels. The agreement with NUR is the staff recruited for Pullman services were on "loan" from restaurant car services.

[JN]

10 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

Middlesbrough to Newcastle service at Hart 1987 by Rob T653

 

 

 

During the early 1990s apparently 47s with three or four MK2s ran this service as Pacer/Sprinter replacements too.

[KeithMacdonald]

On 10/08/2022 at 18:43, montyburns56 said:

Middlesbrough to Newcastle service at Hart 1987 by Rob T653

 

 

 

OK, I understand two ordinary coaches, but why a full brake coach? Perhaps for newspapers? Or empty Newcastle Brown Ale bottles being rushed back to the Tyne Brewery in Newcastle?

 

[101]

2 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

OK, I understand two ordinary coaches, but why a full brake coach? Perhaps for newspapers? Or empty Newcastle Brown Ale bottles being rushed back to the Tyne Brewery in Newcastle?

 

 

 I would guess it was just what they had available at the time 

[Sitham Yard]

7 minutes ago, 101 said:

 

 I would guess it was just what they had available at the time 

To expand presumably you mean what they had available for brake van/guard's accommodation.

Andrew 

[101]

10 minutes ago, Sitham Yard said:

To expand presumably you mean what they had available for brake van/guard's accommodation.

Andrew 

 

Indeed

[SHMD]

20 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

OK, I understand two ordinary coaches, but why a full brake coach? Perhaps for newspapers? Or empty Newcastle Brown Ale bottles being rushed back to the Tyne Brewery in Newcastle?

 

 

The "BG" has brake controls in it that the guard can operate to bring the train to a halt, (independently of the Driver?).

This is a requirement and the other two MK1 coaches don't have access to the braking systems with in them.

 

(To the best of my limited knowledge - and quite probably using the wrong terminology.)

 

 

Kev.

[hexagon789]

10 minutes ago, SHMD said:

 

The "BG" has brake controls in it that the guard can operate to bring the train to a halt, (independently of the Driver?).

This is a requirement and the other two MK1 coaches don't have access to the braking systems with in them.

 

(To the best of my limited knowledge - and quite probably using the wrong terminology.)

 

 

Kev.

I don't believe it's the ability to control the brake necessarily, after all - all passenger carriages have a communication cord (or modern equivalent) which will vent the brake pipe. I believe the issue is lack of handbrake in ordinary British coaches - the BG provides this.

 

This contrasts with the European continent, where all coaches have their own handbrake as standard usually.

[Wickham Green too]

8 minutes ago, SHMD said:

The "BG" has brake controls in it that the guard can operate to bring the train to a halt, (independently of the Driver?).

This is a requirement and the other two MK1 coaches don't have access to the braking systems with in them. ....

In normal circumstances there should be no need for the guard to use his brakes ( hand or vacuum ) - but he has them in case of emergencies ( vacuum ) or holding the train while the loco runs round ( hand ). The two Open (?) Seconds have vacuum brakes under the control of the driver - but operable by the guard as ( as above ) or by use / abuse of the Passenger Alarm.

[SHMD]

Thanks Wickham Green and Hexagon789 - this is what I knew but could not articulate as concisely as you.

Thanks.

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

I believe that the "hand brake" would be a wheel and that the vacuum would have been measured in inches?

 

 

Kev.

[hexagon789]

Just now, SHMD said:

I believe that the "hand brake" would be a wheel and that the vacuum would have been measured in inches?

 

 

Kev.

I think some handbrakes were more like a handle that rotated on a shaft but yes often a wheel. Some, such as those in Thumpers and some SR EMU were like a ship's wheel!

 

Yes, inches of Mercury.

 

(As an aside - on the Rhaetian Railway in Switzerland where they use the vacuum brake still, but the carriage bogies are air-braked (if that makes sense) the brake pressure is measured in Bar.)

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

31 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

As an aside - on the Rhaetian Railway in Switzerland where they use the vacuum brake still, but the carriage bogies are air-braked (if that makes sense) the brake pressure is measured in Bar

 

Toblerone Bar?

[hexagon789]

14 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Toblerone Bar?

Yes, it's well known the Swiss use them to measure the pressure a bar of chocolate can take before fracturing - that's what the triangular bits are for - each denotes 1 bar of milk chocolate pressure... 😉

[KeithMacdonald]

Breaking news chaps! :-

I've just been informed that the Middlesbrough to Newcastle service pictured above was in fact a top-secret supply train to NASA. That's the Newcastle Aeronautics and Space Administration.

 

We go over now to live streaming video from Mission Control at Teeside International Spaceport ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2rNYgnX3KE

 

Book early for the connecting train service.

 

Quote

Although this station is close to Durham Tees Valley Airport it is served by only one train a week in one direction only. Customers travelling to/from the airport are advised to take the bus to/from Darlington or Middlesbrough stations.

 

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/tea/details.html

[keefer]

At the time, all passenger trains had to have at least one 'brake' vehicle in which there was a guard's 'office' with an emergency brake valve ('setter') and gauge. This was, primarily, to provide the guard with a means to apply the train brake in an emergency (or perform a brake continuity test). There was also a handbrake, operated by a wheel, which applied the brakes on the brake coach only, via bevel/screw gear (so that it could not accidentally wind off).

The guard's office also contained various spare/emergency items as well as a desk & chair for the completion of paperwork en-route

Edited August 11, 2022 by keefer

[Wickham Green too]

46 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Toblerone Bar?

Yes - very Abt !

[hexagon789]

11 minutes ago, keefer said:

At the time, all passenger trains had to have at least one 'brake' vehicle in which there was a guard's 'office' with an emergency brake valve ('setter') and gauge. This was, primarily, to provide the guard with a means to apply the train brake in an emergency (or perform a brake continuity test). There was also a handbrake, operated by a wheel, which applied the brakes on the brake coach only, via a worm/screw gear (so that it could not accidentally wind off).

The guard's office also contained various spare/emergency items as well as a desk & chair for the completion of paperwork en-route

Again, I think another case where a successive person has improved on a previous answer with further clarity.

 

Yes, I agree with you completely there Keefer, though what precisely was still required by this time in terms of equipment.

 

Perhaps a handbrake and brake valve was enough?

[SHMD]

Fire extinguisher?

Track circuit clips.

window breaker?

Fire Blanket?

Safety signage. (Not as daft as it sounds.)

 

 

I'm sure there must/is more.

 

 

Kev.

[keefer]

@hexagon789 by that time, probably.

Relating to the office & equipment provided, this was obviously thrashed out at the time the stock was designed, with the Unions keeping a keen eye on things.

However, by 1987, how many guards were just guards, as opposed to guard conductors? The office was somewhere for the guard after all other duties were complete but if he was expected to sell/check tickets etc. then chances are he wouldn't get a chance to sit down!

In olden/older days he would also have more parcels/papers etc to deal with too - packets to be placed in specific areas of the vans for various destinations and so on.

I suppose it eventually came to be somewhere the guard would go when he wasn't walking through the train c.f. the back cab of a DMU/EMU

[keefer]

37 minutes ago, SHMD said:

Fire extinguisher?

Track circuit clips.

window breaker?

Fire Blanket?

Safety signage. (Not as daft as it sounds.)

 

 

I'm sure there must/is more.

 

 

Kev.

I'm sure there was a contemporary (Mk1) list of items in Parkin but can't find it just now.

But to add:

Sand, Fire Axe, Crowbar, First Aid Kit, spare vacuum/steam hoses, spare screw coupling, food warming plate, emergency ladder (carried on ceiling of van), letter racks

The 'standard' guard's office (Mk1/Mk2) was designed to be pretty much the same, irrespective of which vehicle it was in, so that it would be familiar to all.

Edited August 11, 2022 by keefer

[Wickham Green too]

By this date, the screw coupling wouldn't be 'spare', as such, as passenger stock was buckeye fitted - it would be a red-painted Emergency Screw Coupling.

[nigb55009]

It was also possible to carry out a brake continuity test by pulling the communication cord and then resetting it using the "butterfly" switch, situated at the end of

each vehicle at cant rail level.

[Titan]

The Emergency screw coupling would be a special short screw coupling, as it needed to go hook to hook, rather than shank to hook like the semi permanently fitted version on screw coupled stock.