Brake vans and propelling movements in the 1980s

[jonas]

They say the stupid questions are the ones you don't ask, so here goes.

 

In order to make operation of my inglenook more interesting, I planning on using a breakvan as the lead vehicle on any arriving freights - imagining this is a propelled trip move from another yard or something. My era is the mid 1980s / Speedlink, and I'm roughly thinking the west county - plenty of similar trips from St Blazey, I think.

 

But the burning question is...if the breakvan is leading the train, should I add a miniature guard to the veranda of the break van?! And what would he look like if so? I model in N gauge, so any suitable suggestions are appreciated!

 

Cheers all, I hope you can help with this pressing issue...!

[Flood]

Hopefully this will answer your question perfectly. Class 25 and freight train propelling into Hayle Wharf with a white light on the brake van (and the Guard just visible).

 

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/uploads/7/6/8/3/7683812/__4843781_orig.jpg

[87023Velocity]

Hi,

 

There was a regular propelling move from Ashton-in-Makerfield to Wigan Springs Branch depot which had a brake van leading on the return move to the depot and the guard would always be found on the verandah, saw this move a few times. There is a clip on Youtube of the train arriving back at Springs Branch, if I can find it later I will post the link. If memory serves me correctly, the guard usually had a small orange vest over the top of his normal blue uniform.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

 

 

Clip www.youtube.com/watch?v=W46GRH_MhhU at around 0:16 The clip is from 1991 but this move had been undertaken since around 1986 IIRC

[Rivercider]

In September 1983 I enjoyed a brake van ride from Lawrence Hill to Avonside Wharf in Bristol and back.

The move was propelled on the way down, approx 18 four wheeled molasses tanks with the brake van leading.

Two shunters accompanied the move riding in the brake van, I think in contact with the 08 driver via back to back radio. 

The three of us were in the leading verandah, an enjoyable trip.

 

cheers

[The Bigbee Line]

Occasionally the Willesden to Lydd CEGB would unofficialy run round and propel from Lydd Town to the railhead.

 

There were brake vans used for propelling at Paddock Wood and Stratford LIFT.  The Sevington - Snowdown used a fitted brake (a SR Queen Mary) for the shunter to ride in from Sevington onto the mainline.

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

...Woodley jnc to Portwood drops (on the CLC near Stockport) propelling the Tunstead quarry ICI to Portwood Tilcon PHV roadstone hoppers was another one running into the mid-80s. The move stopped when the M60 was planned and the terminal moved to Bredbury. The guard could stop the train with 'the jammer' vacuum brake valve in the brakevan...maybe modelling the brakevan door open with the guard in the vicinity of the brake valve is the way to go.

 

Dave

[jonas]

Perfect! Thanks guys, just the stuff I was after. Now, I wonder if some of the Farish steam era guys can be suitable hi-viz'd to work this service?

 

Cheers!

[Rivercider]

Perfect! Thanks guys, just the stuff I was after. Now, I wonder if some of the Farish steam era guys can be suitable hi-viz'd to work this service?

 

Cheers!

I took a few pictures of the day I had my brake van ride, sadly none showing the shunters riding on the verandah.

Here is a picture of one of the shunters stopping traffic over Avon Street Crossing, which was one of the reasons two shunters were required.

As you will see he is not wearing hi-viz

 

08949 on Avon Street Crossing in Bristol, 28/9/83

cheers

[ZiderHead]

So the brake van shows a white lamp when being propelled, I assume the loco switches to red lights at the driving end too. Are the loco lights usually switched manually or dependent on the reverser position?

 

(Edit: I'm thinking about diesels here)

[The Stationmaster]

So the brake van shows a white lamp when being propelled, I assume the loco switches to red lights at the driving end too. Are the loco lights usually switched manually or dependent on the reverser position?

 

(Edit: I'm thinking about diesels here)

The lights are worked by individual switches.  Normally with a propelling move in a section the reamost vehicle - in this case a loco - must carry a red light or tail lamp on the back, the leading vehicle normally carries a white light.

[ZiderHead]

Ah thanks, I was wondering about that for DCC - the usual direction dependent lighting doesnt look right to me ie. constantly changing red-white when shunting back and forth, more prototypical to switch lighting with a F button then.

[LMS2968]

Hi,

 

There was a regular propelling move from Ashton-in-Makerfield to Wigan Springs Branch depot which had a brake van leading on the return move to the depot and the guard would always be found on the verandah, saw this move a few times. There is a clip on Youtube of the train arriving back at Springs Branch, if I can find it later I will post the link. If memory serves me correctly, the guard usually had a small orange vest over the top of his normal blue uniform.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

 

 

Clip

 at around 0:16 The clip is from 1991 but this move had been undertaken since around 1986 IIRC

 

This move was from Kelbits Sidings at Edge Green via the spur from the old GCR Haydock line, and the train would be propelled down the WCML to Springs Branch no 2 (Liverpool Jct.), where it reversed so that the engine was leading, and went along the line to St Helens, then St Helens Jct., where it would trail into the eastbound Liverpool and Manchester line. I also saw it regularly, and could never understand why, on joining the WCML, it didn't head south to Parkside and take the north to east spur to gain the L&M. Answers on a postcard, please...

 

The guard was always on the leading veranda when I saw it. These, I think, were the returning empties, the loaded bitumen tanks from Humberside went straight on to the spur at Golborne, and were then propelled into Kelbits plant. The traffic started on 17/07/87, and the plant transferred to a new terminal at Preston docks in 2005.