philsandy Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I've just converted a Hornby 08 to EM. I used Loctite 603 to fix the wheels to the axles and to fix the plastic cranks to the axle ends. It has not worked as the cranks have moved and all the wheel quartering is now out. Is Loctite 603 only for metal to metal? Should I use superglue on the cranks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Hi, Are we talking Alan Gibson Cranks? If so, I only ever push them onto the axle ends without any retainer or glue. The same with wheels. I would suggest perhaps you have not sufficient clearance in the rod holes for the bushes, or the quartering was not quite right initially, and this caused the cranks to move when you applied the power. Pete Hill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted December 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2013 Is Loctite 603 only for metal to metal? Yes Should I use superglue on the cranks? Beware some super glue has reaction with the plastic. Alan Gibson (original one not the current business) warned me off using it with the wheels. Check they haven't split. They are prone to that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philsandy Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 Hi, Are we talking Alan Gibson Cranks? If so, I only ever push them onto the axle ends without any retainer or glue. The same with wheels. I would suggest perhaps you have not sufficient clearance in the rod holes for the bushes, or the quartering was not quite right initially, and this caused the cranks to move when you applied the power. Pete Hill Yes Beware some super glue has reaction with the plastic. Alan Gibson (original one not the current business) warned me off using it with the wheels. Check they haven't split. They are prone to that. Thank you for your replies. Yes, Alan Gibson cranks. On closer inspection one of the cranks has split. This must have happened whilst filing down the length of the crank pins. Will fit new one and leave them a push on fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I think 603 will split plastic,i had a bottle on which the cap split.It should really only be used on metal to metal items. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 All retainers, including 603, are a/ anaerobic, i.e. solidify in the absence of oxygen, and b/ react with steel by expanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 All retainers, including 603, are a/ anaerobic, i.e. solidify in the absence of oxygen, and b/ react with steel by expanding. Hello Bill, I will agree with your answer A] it's an anaerobic, it set in the absence of air. But B] no I don't agree with, what you have stated. Having just looked on the loctite site about 603 it does not state anything about expanding with steel. So where did you get that one from? I like 290 it will not brake in what we use it for. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Hello Bill, I will agree with your answer A] it's an anaerobic, it set in the absence of air. But B] no I don't agree with, what you have stated. Having just looked on the loctite site about 603 it does not state anything about expanding with steel. So where did you get that one from? I like 290 it will not brake in what we use it for. OzzyO. You could try the technical data sheet: http://www.loctite.co.uk/sea/content_data/93772_603EN.pdf Bill is quite correct with what he says. Loctite 603 expands in the absence of oxygen and the presence of steel. It does work with certain other materials such as aluminium but it seems to works best on steel. I'll leave it to a metallurgist to explian exactly what compound the retainer reacts with. Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 You could try the technical data sheet: http://www.loctite.co.uk/sea/content_data/93772_603EN.pdf Bill is quite correct with what he says. Loctite 603 expands in the absence of oxygen and the presence of steel. It does work with certain other materials such as aluminium but it seems to works best on steel. I'll leave it to a metallurgist to explian exactly what compound the retainer reacts with. Justin Having reread the data sheet, at what part of the sheet does it save that it expands best with steel. It mentions that it works best with some types of metal and also gives the data for its grip and how it will perform when in contact with some solutions. OzzyO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Having reread the data sheet, at what part of the sheet does it save that it expands best with steel. It mentions that it works best with some types of metal and also gives the data for its grip and how it will perform when in contact with some solutions. OzzyO Curing performance perhaps? Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamsRadial Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Having reread the data sheet, at what part of the sheet does it save that it expands best with steel. It mentions that it works best with some types of metal and also gives the data for its grip and how it will perform when in contact with some solutions. OzzyO Cure speed versus substrate graph suggests it achieves a greater strength with steel than the other two materials in less time, although the aluminium line suggests a convergence with steel if longer time is allowed for curing. Not actually stated there, but I think relevant to the bit about plastic splitting, is that the substrate's inherent strength in compression is relevant, a steel ring around a steel pin is unlikely to split, but a plastic collar around a steel pin may well split as the substance expands on curing, since the plastic has less strength to resist the expanding force. A thin aluminium ring might also crack apart for this reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 I used Loctite 603 for fitting the wheels to axles on my 5" gauge WD 2-10-0 & i had to be bl***y fast at quartering,it gripped in about 30 seconds. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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