Brown Stock Livery: Black ends?

[Kev_Lewis]

I'm currently painting a pair of Fruit Ds (JLTRT 7mm kits) and while double checking the livery I came across an anomaly.

 

It has always been my belief that brown stock we painted brown on the sides and ends, but one source is stating that from an unknown date the ends of brown stock were painted black to match the coaching stock they ran with.

 

As I model the GWR in the years between WW2 and Nationalisation this will affect me.

 

So brown ends, or black ends?

[gwrrob]

Its common knowledge that horseboxes were painted black on the ends but I think siphons were bodyside colour.My gut instinct for your period for the similar fruit D's is brown.

 

Both of the SDR 's have brown ends one in the shirtbutton livery I have on the Dapol 4mm version.

 

http://www.southdevonrailwayassociation.org/Wagon-Photographs-GWR.html#92035

 

 

Are you a member of the GWR E-list where you could ask someone like John Lewis a master on this field.

[Kev_Lewis]

Ah, but this one on the North Norfolk Railway has black ends:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/9676992466/

 

Alas, I am not a member of the GWR E-list. I've not heard of it before now!

[Miss Prism]

Black ends for brown stock seems to have become established by the late 1930s, but the changeover date from brown ends to black ends is unrecorded, and it is not known whether the change was applied consistently to all the diagram types. Brown stock did not receive much repainting, so it is generally impossible to tell what the underlying colour of the ends were.

[Kev_Lewis]

Black ends for brown stock seems to have become established by the late 1930s, but the changeover date from brown ends to black ends is unrecorded, and it is not known whether the change was applied consistently to all the diagram types. Brown stock did not receive much repainting, so it is generally impossible to tell what the underlying colour of the ends were.

 

Thanks for the expanded explanation, Miss P.

 

Given that the first batch of Fruit Ds was built between 1939 and 1941 I would have thought that they would have left the works with black ends?

[gwrrob]

The 1941 photo of Y11 No. 2885 in Russells book shews the ends clearly and they look the same colour as the sides to me.A lovely looking vehicle.

[Kev_Lewis]

The 1941 photo of Y11 No. 2885 in Russells book shews the ends clearly and they look the same colour as the sides to me.A lovely looking vehicle.

 

There's a 1939 black and white photo of the same wagon in Atkins, Beards and Tourrets GWR Goods Wagons (I call it the GWR wagons bible!). It looks like an official photo with the background whited out. The entire wagon appears to be the same colour.

[Miss Prism]

In general, GWR 'non-passenger coaching stock' was never painted in a consistent single style. My personal view, and I accept it is not a particularly logical one, is that black was probably applied only to horse boxes with metal-sheeted ends. In other words, if NPCS was built like a modern coach, it got the same treatment as a coach, but if it wasn't built like a modern coach, it stayed in all brown.

 

In WW2 and shortly thereafter, the re-painting/re-patching of NPCS is an unknown, if only because it was rare. (Not exactly a priority was it?) Any convenient colour of paint would have used in my view.

 

 

[kada33]

The 1941 photo of Y11 No. 2885 in Russells book shews the ends clearly and they look the same colour as the sides to me.A lovely looking vehicle.

Hi gwrrob.

 

This would be in GW Coaches Appendix Vol.2 Fig.605 I take it.