Newcomer to Tramway Modelling

[GoingUnderground]

Hi,

 

I've recently decided to add a short length of tramway to my LT themed OO underground layout based in NW London somewhere between Uxbridge and Edgware, I am aware that the only lines in the area were to Edgware, Sudbury, and Uxbridge, and that they were replaced with trolleybuses, I saw the 607 trollies  in Uxbridge when I was a lad. But it's my layout so a bit of what if we'd kept the trams modelling is permissible.

 

I'm cosidering buying a Corgi Feltham or the Tower Tram version and a couple of Tower Tram E/1s with  the Bec motorising kits. I may even try converting an E/1 to an M Class, I've got the Terry Russell M class drawings, and it looks very do-able, with care.

 

Couple of general questions:

1. Does anyone run their trams using DCC? If so, can you give me some hints or tips on using DCC. 

2. Do the Bec motorising kits work on Proto 87 track? If not what track would you recommend for a complete tramway modelling beginner?

3. Do any of you collect from the overhead and use both rails as the common return, or just use the rails for the power supply as in a conventional 2 rail layout?

 

Any other tips you can give a newcomer would be most welcome.

 

Thank you for your help.

[GoingUnderground]

Thank you for that, and for the information about David Voice's book. I have bought several books on the subject already:

• David Voice's "How to Go Tram & Tramway Modelling", 3rd edition, ISBN 1874422 53 2
• David Voice's "London's Tramways - their history and how to model them" ISBN 0-85059-668-8
• Paul Collins's "London Trams  - A View from the Past" ISBN 0-7110-2741-2
• CS Smeeton's "The Metropolitan Electric Tramways" Vols 1 and 2. ISBN 0 900433 94 9 and 0 948106 00 X respectively.  

[Red Devil]

Hi,

 

I've recently decided to add a short length of tramway to my LT themed OO underground layout based in NW London somewhere between Uxbridge and Edgware, I am aware that the only lines in the area were to Edgware, Sudbury, and Uxbridge, and that they were replaced with trolleybuses, I saw the 607 trollies  in Uxbridge when I was a lad. But it's my layout so a bit of what if we'd kept the trams modelling is permissible.

 

I'm cosidering buying a Corgi Feltham or the Tower Tram version and a couple of Tower Tram E/1s with  the Bec motorising kits. I may even try converting an E/1 to an M Class, I've got the Terry Russell M class drawings, and it looks very do-able, with care.

 

Couple of general questions:

1. Does anyone run their trams using DCC? If so, can you give me some hints or tips on using DCC. 

2. Do the Bec motorising kits work on Proto 87 track? If not what track would you recommend for a complete tramway modelling beginner?

3. Do any of you collect from the overhead and use both rails as the common return, or just use the rails for the power supply as in a conventional 2 rail layout?

 

Any other tips you can give a newcomer would be most welcome.

 

Thank you for your help.

1) Yes, pm on the way

2) Personally no, that wouldn't be my route of choice

3) Both, depends which you prefer.

[GoingUnderground]

Having had a look through various posts in this section, I've seen several references to the tram track from Swedtram, and the Orr track from Customtrax in the US. Apparently they use the same, or very similar rail profile. The TLRS modelling info section doesn't list a UK supplier and I was wondering if anyone has used either of them and where you bought them.

[Engineer_London]

Just a supplementary note for information rather than a hard answer.  It's clear from the responses on this thread, and on the Easy Street thread, that the very best current expertise on model tramways is coming through.

 

I returned to modelling after many years of absence, and in restarting with model trams several years ago I wondered what to do about track.  I was lucky to join the Tramway and LIght Railway Society and obtain much good advice and fellowship, and this included giving me a sample of Orr rail.  I've now unearthed and attempted swiftly to clean and photograph a cross-section and a comparison with the PC rail - could do better, later, if needed.

Given that the key to good appearance of tram rail and track is the view from above, I felt that the Orr/Swedtram rail was robust but too visually distracting so didn't pursue it further - tram rail is a narrower rail head than the 'main line' equivalent.  My intention, after much heart-searching and reflection, is to separate my tramway modelling strands.  For London modules, particularly with conduit, the plan is to use P4 standards, and PC/Electric Avenue rail for switch and crossing work, code 75 rail or similar for plain line, soldered construction.  For 'Out-of-London' models and for modern era H0, I will be using a mainstream track standard, broadly aligned to the TLRS description:  http://www.tramwayinfo.com/Models/Howto/Standh0.htm

 

A passing note on DCC, but not as a user - my own intention is '2-rail plus indpendent-fed lighting'.  There was a good article on DCC application to trams in the TLRS journal 4-5 years ago by a very experienced modeller, N. C. Friswell.  I will try to find the reference.  The other source worth a look - if you've not looked already - is the 'Southern California Traction Club' whose web presence suggests they've made a big commitment to DCC, using Overhead with track return, and their experiences and lessons learnt may be useful: 

 

http://www.trainweb.org/socaltractionclub/

http://www.trolleyville.com/tv/school/lesson5_3/index.htm

 

Having stated my thoughts and intentions, must admit that I comment cautiously on these subjects with only some on-off experience from the past few years.  Work and life circumstances have stalled my practical work but I've not given up hope.  My modelling and research activites are spread thinly and mainly across both tramways and the Metropolitan Railway, the latter receiving a bit more priority, for now. 

 

[Red Devil]

There is someone attempting to bring Swedtram products to the UK market, however as yet not successfully, so as far as I know it's order direct at the moment.

 

You also need a rail bender to bend the rail as it's fairly rigid.

 

Another possible option is to use code 75 rail with a nickel silver strip soldered parallel to the rail on the inside to create/suggest the grove. Personally I don't both and create the groove from the plaster road infill, whilst perhaps not as aesthetically correct it's easier and looks ok from normal viewing distances. Hopefully this gives an idea.

 

[Alan J Kirkman]

I'm with Mark. Orr rail and points are available through Custom Traxx in the USA but they seem to have altered the profile from that originally drawn by SMP over here ( when Tramalan started stocking it it had to cross the Atlantic twice SMP to Richard Orr,. Richard to Tramalan, a deal was struck enabling later batches to be supplied with the UK, When Richard Orr died it seems the track went two ways the US rights etc. to Custom Traxx ad the UK dies to Sweden and Swedtram. The Us version from looking at their website seems to have changed the profile slightly to a more angled check as in some US full size practice, sadly thsin and the wide groove does not give much flange guidance on tramway curves and it's needed at times  to standsar BRMSB OO wheels such a Romford Markits as used by BEC, Tramalan and in any PC production I do etc . Halling use a fine scale NEM European profile and back to back. Now BRMSB back to back is 14.5mm and code 75 roller gauges set you track to take that. To our amazement on test we found that Halling trailer bogies etc dragged on points etc. laid to !4.5 B to B and on checking realised NEM is somewhat narrower Back to Back, driven axles were still getting adhesion just maybe not on the treads! I now check all Halling wheels ets on a Back to back gauge and set them correctly, this problem is also present on Bachmann PCCs and Brills on the trailing bogies the new powered trucks have different wheels which a set correctly. T get back to track on plain track and not excessively tight curves forming the check rail from the paving works well, rember nothing runs on the top of the check rail so it is total grot colour. For points and curves where check rail guidance helps I use code 75 bull head for both running rail and check locating with 2 or 3 rollergauges.

[Londontram]

If your only doing a short lengh of track to go with your underground railway keep it simple and dont use points if you can help it, its not the trams stalling using twin bec motors cross wired there near imposable to stall its just hard to get a good road surface  as the gaps left for the frogs and blades even on some custom made points look just to big. Try not to have dead ends as you then need the hand of god to turn the trolly pole, auto trolly turners were not commen in London many London trams often having two trolly poles to avoid the conductor having to walk the pole round on busy London streets. If you model on the conduit then the only problem is the driver is at the wrong end 50% of the time. I've always use Peco track and cut the running grove in the plaster/das clay infill and made a simple tool from an old flat screwdriver to do this you may have to make the grove slightly larger on bends etc. I feel (personal choice only) that some of the custom groved track looks just to over scale and clumsy. Remember only the section between the tracks and a little either side were paved/cobbled on London tramways as a rule the rest of the road being a tarmac surface and this on conduit track on over head powered section the road was often tarmaced all the way across. When you get the lay of your track right I dont know what base board surface your using but I've had good results with routing a channel in the board and recesing the track, it means there's less road surface to build up after so less work for you. when you do build up the road surface by which ever metthod you chose try to keep the track very very slightly proud of the road surface this makes track cleaning easy and dosnt damage the road surface when using track rubbers or such like. Ive found car body type filler a good product for the road surface as its quite flexable and dosnt crack or chip as much as plaster filler which if your moving it for exhibitions can be a bonus and can be scribbed with the set pattern easly and takes many types of paint well (my views only remember other may get on better with other methods and materials)

 

    I built an M class car from a Tower E 1 and plasticard side frames which was an easy conversion and the Tower E 1 can be converted to some of the later Met cars with out to much work (Met cars like the H class having five main sde window instead of the E 1s four) I'm not sure what period your modeling but the old Kiel kraft West Ham tram kit (can still be picked up on ebay) makes a good base for many early provincial London trams and is easy to power with "spud" of your choice. Hope some of this helps regards Steve oh and I model in basic Dc power format

[GoingUnderground]

Thank you everyone for your help. It has given me much to think about.

[298]

Hi Keith, I use DCC and have started re-wiring my stock so the poles have the same polarity as one of the rails like Deepcar- if only to appease the critics at shows who are happy for steam and diesel models to have motors in, but think electric models should only run from the overhead (sorry, rant over).

 

Andy.