simon br blue Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 The finish of the parts is the biggest problem at the moment. I would be prepared to pay more for better quality prints and more consistant results. Anyway another update- The 7mm class 24 bogie (printed in WSF) turned up after Christmas and it fits together well. It was printed in 3 parts (a 4th part in the same order is the mount to fix it to the bottom of the Steve Beattie body), There is the main sideframe and a pair of inner chassis- one which fixes to the sideframe and a second which joins and pivots off the main inner chassis to provide a basic suspension. All that was needed was to add the bearings and wheels and add a nut, bolt and spring to join the inner chassis together. An updated model has been order which will have a couple of mods and include the holes to mount it to the body. I have also drawn and got a 7mm class 25.3 cab interior and bufferbeam printed. It was quite easy to draw as I used the interior of the cab to form the edge of the desk to make sure it fits the cab shell ok. The pic below also shows a couple of areas on the 25 body that need tiding up before it gets a topcoat of blue. Shapeways had an offer on up to new years eve on WSF so I ordered a couple of items including a fuel tank and battery box mount for the 7mm class 25.3 - with the 20% discount and the open framed nature of the part it only cost $13. The 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 There are methods that have much finer grain available, but they are a lot more expensive at the moment. Once that comes down in price, then it really is game on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon br blue Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 There are methods that have much finer grain available, but they are a lot more expensive at the moment. Once that comes down in price, then it really is game on! Can you post a link to a company the can do higher resolution prints as it could be useful to see what the prices come out like. After seeing some of the posts by Red Devil I decided to get a couple of parts printed by I.materialise. I got a 4mm class 25.3 cab printed (the same as i ordered in FUD from shapeways as a test) and a 7mm class 25.1 cab that I hoped could be used to make a resin cab for some of the 7mm resin bodies I've got. The 4mm cab printed ok- the sides were a little bent in but it wouldn't be a problem if it was glued to a body or used as a master for resin casting. The resolution looked about the same as WSF but with the plus of being a smooth finish more like FUD. The details on the cab (headboard clips) printed well and the front and sides were quite smooth the only place that the layering was obvious was on the roof and the headcode box 'wings'. The lower cab seam around the front was also printed clearly. The model also had a lot of pips or nipples on the top surfaces - I assume something to so with the printing process, either start or end points for printing or something to do with support material? I've not done anything with this model as it was only to see what detail was possible in 4mm. The 7mm cab printed much the same as the 4mm version with the details all being present except the lower seam which didn't print on all sides but I think this maybe due to the drawing having a finer seam line that was actually thinner than the 4mm version. The only other difference was that the layering was less obvious as the cab was bigger. I also managed to break one part of the headboard clips ( but I was going to remove them anyway before casting). This cab I gave a coat of primer and then sanded it to make it smoother, I ended up using some filler to smooth the layers the roof and wings. Next it was filled with play doh, put in a lego box and covered in silicone This went ok and I've now poured the second part of the mould. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Can you post a link to a company the can do higher resolution prints as it could be useful to see what the prices come out like. This is one that I've heard is pretty good: http://www.finelineprototyping.com/intro/ Essentially, you're looking for a company that offers stereolithography, which I think is the only way to get the resolution at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2012 Essentially, you're looking for a company that offers stereolithography, which I think is the only way to get the resolution at the moment. Materialise use stereo-lithography for the grey prime material,seen above.Fineline is able to offer it in much higher resolutions,at a price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon br blue Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Just a little update, I've cast a couple of 7mm class 25.1 cabs. I've not clean one up yet but they look ok. As with the previous cabs I've cast there are a couple of air bubbles - I nearly always get a buble in one of the horn grills and some where along the rainstrip. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted January 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2012 That N 25 body on the 24 chassis is looking even better...look forward to see it when you have removed the buffer beam/lowered it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerhillboy Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 That N 25 body on the 24 chassis is looking even better...look forward to see it when you have removed the buffer beam/lowered it... Agree with that, was really impressed with that. I could imagine that with some N-Brass handrail wire and lamp irons and it'd be better still. Truly exciting stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Certainly turned out well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon br blue Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Another shapeways delivery turned up yesterday. I ordered a 7mm class 25 bogie, cab interior and a fuel/battery box mount in WSF and a 4mm 25.3 cab in FUD. The class 25.3 body sitting on top of the pair of bogies with the battery box blu tacked in place, the radiator side and roof grills are also blu tacked on for the picture. The bogies have a bit more detail than the previous print and I've changed the sand box to represent the later 25 type, I've also added the brake push rods and modified the brake blocks to sit in line with the wheels. I've also got some Steve Beattie etched SKF axle box covers on order to fit to the bogies. The centre underframe is only basic without any pipe runs but it looks to fit ok. The fuel tank is the original resin tank that came with the bodyshell and the battery boxes were made to fit around it, there are also some other metal parts in a box somewhere for the details that need to be added in this area but I can't find them at the moment. If the weather improves over the weekend I'll clean and prime the new 4mm cab. I have also drawn the suspension for the campbells soup wagon that I'm trying to scratch build in O gauge, The springs are not 100% accurate but should look ok when printed. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenforth Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Very nice work Simon, thanks for posting all these pictures. That casting looks superb. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted February 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2012 hi dont mean to hi jack this traed i was just wondering to what torlences you are working too? had a look on an old topic it seemed that mardan was not liked much and this made me think that if the torloences are too tight than no one could build a perfact copy of any loco with out first masuering the one that is wished to be done. has all locos are hand built no loco is ever the same as the next so to get round that it seems much easyer to open up the torlences. has a hobby i work to 0.5 mm so that works out at about 1'1/2 inch in 00 which to me is huge has when at work i tend to work to 0.0005 mm and below some times i am not trying to say to any one to what they should be doing i am just trying to under stand some of the work being put in to the models being built has a pic dose not all ways do justice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon br blue Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 Another long gap between updates but I've been busy. Firstly I've got the printed suspension for the campbells soup wagon. It was printed in WSF and it turned out ok and the axle fitted ok and turned freely but I've decided to fit some WEP etched suspension units and make these just cosmetic. I've also done some more work on the wagon itself with the ends almost finished now. Underframe to do next then time to look for some transfers. Another wagon I've been working on is an OCA. I've drawn it for 7mm and decided to leave the side doors and the ends open to allow me to fit some thin plastic when it's printed to keep the sides thin (also using platic I should be able to make some dents and scratches on the doors), it should also help to keep the cost down. I've not ordered one yet as I'm not sure which material will be most suitable- either WSF from shapeways or Prime grey from I materialise (FUD would be the best but would cost too much). I also think the doors and the brake leavers would need to be seperatly printed in FUD as they're too thin for the other materials. After the sucess of the previous suspension print (and seeing Pugsley's challenge cargo twin idea) I decided to go one step further and try a working suspension. I only went for a 7mm test of one axle in FUD to see what was possible. I had to modify parts of the suspension to allow the minimum clearance between parts (and I printed the leaf springs separately from the rest of the suspension). The parts turned up this week and on first inspection looked good but sadly the axle boxes didn't move up or down. I thought that I'd made a mistake with the gaps but as a last ditch attempt to get them to work I pushed hard on them and they started to work. Two of the three springs printed 'spring' freely so I added these to the chassis but when fitted they were too soft and didn't spring back enough, for some reason the third spring is stiffer and this works perfectly (i think i might need to glue the end of the two soft springs to make them work better). And to show it working I've uploaded a video of it in action. - No video yet as I cant work out how to get it on here. I've got some more class 25 developement to come and I'll try to post them up soon. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Wow, that's really impressive! Do you mind revealing how much that axle set up cost, please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon br blue Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Another update, Below is a pic of one of the springs showing the four seperate ends that were printed 0.1mm apart. The next couple of pics show the class 25.1 with one of the new cabs blu tacked on and the new 'all in one' underframe with all the details on and the mounts for the bogies and fuel tanks. I just need to get round to drawing a class 25.1 cab interior and bufferbeam (and need to cast another cab). The bogie under the cab is also a new print with a bit of extra detail on the front including an AWS unit. The next pic is of the 2mm class 25.1 that was pictured earlier in the thread, I've cut a bit of mesh out and just pushed it in place to see what it looked like. I think it should be finer, can anyone recomend a supplier that sells extra fine mesh that could be used for the side grill and also the cantrail grills on a 2mm class 25.3? I've got some Steve Beattie 7mm class 22 bodies that have been in the cupboard for a couple of years but seeing pics of the Dapol oo version and the JLTRT 7mm kit made me decide to dust one off. The bodies were purchased off ebay and didn't have any underframes or bogies so I had a go at drawing some bogie sideframes that would fit onto the inner bogie I had printed for the 25's (they won't be as good as the JLTRT sideframes but will hopefully help to get the three shells up and running). Sadly I've tried to get one printed with the last couple of orders but each time the file gets accepted when uploaded but gets rejected after the order has been placed. I'll modify it again and try it with the next order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Hello Simon, Your work looks good, especially the suspension! I have had similar trouble with items being rejected, have you tried using netfabb studio (which is free) to check your files before you upload them, I have found this has solved most of them. (I believe it is also the software shapeways now use). Regards, Wild Boar Fell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 How much has the big 25 cost you so far? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon br blue Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 How much has the big 25 cost you so far? Pete Roughly the parts cost- bogies - £25 each printed chassis- £20 bufferbeams - £5 each printed cab master - £35 original resin body £15 set of etched grills £15 + wheels I've got several bodyshells so I should be able to spread the cost of the masters over them all. I'm going to try and cast the inner bogies in resin and only print the sideframes for the other models. Below is a couple of pics of the N gauge class 25.3 I've had printed sitting on a 24 chassis. At some point I'll have to bite the bullet and cut off part of the bufferbeam and fuel tanks but i think I'll wait until I've given it a coat of paint to see if it looks ok. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 So you looking at about £200 so far cheaper than a JLTRT and that includes all of the parts not bad. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 So you looking at about £200 so far cheaper than a JLTRT and that includes all of the parts not bad. Pete I guess though if they were sold and labour wanted to be taken into consideration then they'd be more comparable on pricing. Things like lost wax detail can certainly add more than expected to costs too. 0 gauge looks great with 3D printing as they layering seems fine in that scale, im still a bit skeptical about the cleaning involved with 4mm stuff though Bill Bedford had some nice bits at S4 North that were ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 There are a couple of answers to the cleaning side - use FUD (probably mindnumbingly price in O but ok in N) or used the polishing service some suppliers now offer. That makes a big difference. Polishing these materials is also hard (PLA especially as its co-efficient of friction is so high it simply melts onto the abrasive). In some cases dipping it in a suitable solution to smooth out the gaps by filling them works better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Just been sent this link http://youtu.be/COAu5ZtWUXg from a modeller who owns a 3d printer. The video isn't railway related I see but the sender told me has printed a Z gauge class 25 hence I posted here. Edited May 24, 2012 by stadman 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Thank you for that - I was short on inspiration for my sermon for Sunday morning and was idly browsing RMWeb as a diversion - I now have my illustration sorted! "You can't just make the perfect family... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon br blue Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Another long delay between update but more progress to report. Firstly I've had another N gauge class 25/3 body printed. This is again in FUD and is a bit longer than the last, it seems to fit the Farish 24 chassis better and looks like it will be OK when the chassis has been modified. This version doesn't have all the detail on the bodyside - I've removed the hatches and the covers over the bodyside steps as when they were printed they left support material above/ below which was hard to remove and make smooth. I'll have to wait and see what it looks like when it's had a coat of primer but I'm hoping this will be the final version. Next off the printer was another 4mm class 25/3 cab, I did cast some cabgs from the last 4mm print but it wasn't perfect so I ordered another one. This cab looks like a better quality print than the last one (but again I'll be able to tell better when it's had a coat of primer) and it doesn't have any marks on the cab front where the support material was as on previous prints. Also this print looks very clear compared with previous prints which sometimes were very 'frosted'. Again hopefully this will also be the final version of the cab. The next part in the order was another 7mm OCA chassis test. This is basically the same as the previous version but with modified buffers with more clearance to allow them to move more freely and hopefully work better if I can find some small springs to fit in them. I have also added some more springs to the print, there are 3 types each with a different amount of spring/angle set into them to give more spring when fitted to the chassis. Another part I've added to this is a scale version of an instanter coupling with can be set into the long or short version, I'm not sure how strong it will be in FUD but as I printed three of them along with three hooks I might try a destructive test to see how much wait one will take. The item was the one I was most interested in getting printed - a 7mm POA. The model was drawn using a 4mm Bachmann mdel as a guide. It uses the suspension I made for the Campbells soup wagon with a couple of changes as the POA has disc brakes ( the picture shows three hole wheels as I've not got any disc wheels). The whole thing was printed in one part in WSF with holes left for the FUD buffers and instanter couplings to be added from hte OCA test print. The sides were left open as this would have more than doubled the price of the model if 1mm thick sidewalls had been added. I plan to add some thin plasticard walls to the model as these can be scale thickness and can easily be bent and scraped to match the prototype. The wheels and bearings fit quite well and were put in place as the chassis has some flex in it as it's printed in WSF, another benefit of ebing made from WSF is that the ladders should be harder to damage. The second photo shows the FUD hook, coupling and buffers added. As always comments and observation welcome. 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 The Last 25 cab certainly looks like it is getting there, so the obvious questions are how much and when can I get my hands on a pair??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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