RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2014 I am in the process of re-wheeling two 2-6-4 tanks to get rid of the limaesque flanges which tend to ride on the chairs on C&L track. These locos are 1) A Hornby Stanier 2-6-4T and 2) a Bachmann Fairburn 2-6-4T I am using Gibson wheels for both. Now the major observation I can make is that I can compare the Bachmann chassis(no bearings other than the mazak chassis block) with the Hornby - separate brass bearings fitted into slots in the mazak chassis block.. Its a bit like comparing the engine block in a Saab 99/Tirumph Stag and the same engine but fitted with headshell bearings in the Ford equivalent - guess which ones seized. I can guess which chassis is going to last longest... Are any other Hornby chassis similar? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 To answer the direct question, Hornby designed steam models have been fitted with brass bearing collars on steam driver axles since before the move to China. That's right up to the recent release of the GWR eight-coupled tanks and Star, which have the axles running in square chassis locations cast in the mazak block. Be aware also that they have a slew of models from other design shops, taken into the range, bearing arrangements vary. For example the N2 (originally Airfix via Mainline and Dapol) has steel axles running in plastic moulded chassis parts. Meanwhile, Bachmann since moving off the horrible split chassis scheme and for a decade putting their steel axles into cast in locations in the mazak block, introduced brass bearings on steam loco drivers about three years ago. So there are now several recently introduced steam models with this arrangement and probably more to come. But not quite so simple as that in respect of bearings, many of their earlier steel axled locos have one (or more) axles on a sprung plunger.The WD 2-8-0 a real beaut, sprung axles either side of the driven axle: I have these weighted to nearly twice the supplied weight, and a dozen years of regular operation later, wear to the chassis block is neglible. By fitting stronger springs most of the load is on the two sprung axles. On potential mechanism longevity/reliability, it isn't so simple as that one factor. Both makers steam locos have strengths and weaknesses. Bachmann, good motor mounts, usually good wired in pick up wiper design, reliable motor and gear train, robust rods; often takes a while for a new chassis to settle down to really smooth running, (a little inspection and clean up of the chassis axle locations will often help) plastic components around valve gear have to be treated carefully. Recently (from 2010?) brass bearing collars on driven axles, otherwise as before. Noticeably smoother running as received when compared to earlier models. Hornby designed steam models, there are now three distinct periods of Chinese production. Early phase from the Merchant Navy 1999 until about the introduction of the Stanier 4MTT 2006?. Good motor, brass driven axle bearings; pick up wipers overlong, using the chassis block in the current path with face contact 'connections' to pick ups, weak rods, mechanically inept front motor mount which can fail, occasional troubles with axle gears splitting. Golden patch, Britannia 2006 to O1 2012. Good motor mounts, reliable motor and gear train, brass driven axle bearings, soldered connections within loco to pick up wipers; pick up wipers overlong, weak rods. Latest all new introductions from 2013 (by report since I don't own any) the brass bearings have gone. Earlier designs still have them based on my single example of a B17 from a recently manufactured batch, still produced to 'golden patch' specification. As ever, that's just an opinion,and based on my own and a couple of friends RTR purchases mostly of LNE/LMS/BR stds. Not had one yet that I have not been able to make a good reliable runner out of, varying from 'perfect as received' to quite a lot of trouble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted February 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2014 The correct term should be half a Stag engine, when comparing the early SAAB 99's to a Stag as the V8 was design first Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 20, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2014 The correct term should be half a Stag engine, when comparing the early SAAB 99's to a Stag as the V8 was design first they all came from a Ricardo design which were used by Ford, Saab and Triumph.. Only Ford used separate bearings though.... always a problem in an Aluminium engine block.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 20, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2014 To answer the direct question, Hornby designed steam models have been fitted with brass bearing collars on steam driver axles since before the move to China. That's right up to the recent release of the GWR eight-coupled tanks and Star, which have the axles running in square chassis locations cast in the mazak block. Be aware also that they have a slew of models from other design shops, taken into the range, bearing arrangements vary. For example the N2 (originally Airfix via Mainline and Dapol) has steel axles running in plastic moulded chassis parts. Meanwhile, Bachmann since moving off the horrible split chassis scheme and for a decade putting their steel axles into cast in locations in the mazak block, introduced brass bearings on steam loco drivers about three years ago. So there are now several recently introduced steam models with this arrangement and probably more to come. But not quite so simple as that in respect of bearings, many of their earlier steel axled locos have one (or more) axles on a sprung plunger.The WD 2-8-0 a real beaut, sprung axles either side of the driven axle: I have these weighted to nearly twice the supplied weight, and a dozen years of regular operation later, wear to the chassis block is neglible. By fitting stronger springs most of the load is on the two sprung axles. On potential mechanism longevity/reliability, it isn't so simple as that one factor. Both makers steam locos have strengths and weaknesses. Bachmann, good motor mounts, usually good wired in pick up wiper design, reliable motor and gear train, robust rods; often takes a while for a new chassis to settle down to really smooth running, (a little inspection and clean up of the chassis axle locations will often help) plastic components around valve gear have to be treated carefully. Recently (from 2010?) brass bearing collars on driven axles, otherwise as before. Noticeably smoother running as received when compared to earlier models. Hornby designed steam models, there are now three distinct periods of Chinese production. Early phase from the Merchant Navy 1999 until about the introduction of the Stanier 4MTT 2006?. Good motor, brass driven axle bearings; pick up wipers overlong, using the chassis block in the current path with face contact 'connections' to pick ups, weak rods, mechanically inept front motor mount which can fail, occasional troubles with axle gears splitting. Golden patch, Britannia 2006 to O1 2012. Good motor mounts, reliable motor and gear train, brass driven axle bearings, soldered connections within loco to pick up wipers; pick up wipers overlong, weak rods. Latest all new introductions from 2013 (by report since I don't own any) the brass bearings have gone. Earlier designs still have them based on my single example of a B17 from a recently manufactured batch, still produced to 'golden patch' specification. As ever, that's just an opinion,and based on my own and a couple of friends RTR purchases mostly of LNE/LMS/BR stds. Not had one yet that I have not been able to make a good reliable runner out of, varying from 'perfect as received' to quite a lot of trouble. Thanks for that .. a bit of background helps... strangely enough from feedback from a (now retired) Settle and Carlisle based layout the Bachmann drive trains and chassis failed first - the Hornby Black 5s and 8Fs seemed to have a longer life. In this conversion spree I would agree about the rods - look at the Hornby ones and they bend... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 21, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2014 So the Bachmann loco has those infamous Hornby square axle bearings.... looks like these are possibly Chinese Factory Production engineering short cuts....Less than impressed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Thanks for that .. a bit of background helps... strangely enough from feedback from a (now retired) Settle and Carlisle based layout the Bachmann drive trains and chassis failed first - the Hornby Black 5s and 8Fs seemed to have a longer life. In this conversion spree I would agree about the rods - look at the Hornby ones and they bend... Yes but Hornby rods don't break when they foul a hex-heads at speed type2 curves? And then they bend back into shape... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 21, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2014 And I have found out the Bachmann ones are even worse than the Hornby ones with huge holes in them for their huge hex headed screws to hold them onto the wheels.... What I see is poor production engineered products engineered down to the capabilities of the factories making them... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallmodelspares Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 The worst chassis still made by Hornby are the sspp 0-6-0t and b12, 0-4-0t The 0-4-0 is too lightly geared and runs way too fast The 0-6-0t needs a better motor, deletion of spinging has made a difference to its handling The B12 needs a better drive and something done about gear wear, these go through drive gears easily! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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